Government urged to drop novels with 'racial slurs' from Junior Cert syllabus

Finty Lemon

The removal of the ban on PK's Tarry Flynn was done in the name of progress. The imposition of a ban on Harper Lee's TKAM is propsed in the name of progress.
We are a progressive people indeed

StackSteevens

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I actually think movements such as blm should be a part of the curriculum, do kids truly connect with books such as mocking bird, and is the curriculum truly designed to suit us adults more so? Younger generations are different, they see the world differently, they want a different world than us adults

Yep, BLM will fit in neatly with the new course on Traveller history and culture to be added to the curriculum at primary and secondary school when the Traveller Culture and Education Bill is passed into law.

The kids of today and tomorrow are truly fortunate to be able to learn so many interesting things about topical subjects. No more boring old Greek or Latin or History (Herstory?) for them, the lucky dears. No doubt the Greens are busily working on a new course on the Life and Times of Greta Thunderburger which will soon be added to the syllabus too. Happy days!

TheBlackPill

all these submissions should be publicly available with their authors easily identifiable. If the authors are not identifiable the submissions should go in the bin.
This is how planning submissions work

Beechwoodspark

Both books are literary masterpieces and should Remain on the syllabus

Tony EH

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I've never read Of Mice and Men but To Kill A Mockingbird should absolutely be removed from the educational curriculum. I remember having to study it when I was doing my Junior Certificate. I read it cover to cover several times that year and sure, it captured a demented time and place in American history through the prism of children's innocence and offered the personification of the natural law in Atticus Finch and provided a moral lesson in justice and the law not necessarily always being synonymous with one another, but not once, on any page, did Ms Lee detail how one is supposed to kill a mockingbird. I always thought this was highly suspect and, if I may be so bold, false advertising.

Tony EH

TheValeyard wrote: »

To Kill a Mockingbird was a great eye opener for my JC about racism and American segregation. Removing it is absolutely ridiculous as it shows students what life was like for black Americans.

If any novel helps people see the wrong of segregation, it's that book. Removing it is a terrible, backwards step.

I think the people who want to remove books like 'To Kill a Mockingbird' on the grounds of "racism" have never actually read 'To Kill a Mockingbird'.

The J Stands for Jay

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Or maybe you could encourage discussion amongst the kids, of why such movements still occur today, why relatives of Martin Luther have had to take to the streets, once again, why people become so angry, resulting in such outcomes

I thought they were all happy with their reformation of the church in Germany?

The J Stands for Jay

screamer wrote: »

Just had a look there 1999 it was removed so I had to endure it, but very seriously this book was absolute misery and a personal account of miserable existence in Ireland. Mockingbird is purely that mocked up fiction, were it real, then I’d think differently. I also had to read it for junior cert and just thought it was meh to be honest.

I managed to aviid it somehow. Maybe it was only for honours Irish?

Eduard Khil

Of Mice and Men is an excellent story the film is a masterpiece John Malkovich is fantastic as Lenny. Gary Sinise is brilliant as George.

Tony EH

osarusan wrote: »

I wonder what their place is in the curriculum. I mean, why are they there ahead of other novels?

Is To Kill a Mockingbird there to use as a springboard about discussion of racial inequality and so on? It obviously could be used like that, but I don't know if it is used like that. If it is used like that, I can see merit to pairing it with (not replacing it with) a novel which explores the same theme, but by a black author.

Of Mice and Men has only a brief and tengential reference to racism, with the treatment of Crooks the stablehand (who is warned that if he doesn't do what he's told, it's easy to get him hanged). It's a novel about itinerant labour during the great depression. I personally love the book, but i wonder what it's for in the curriculum - is it used as a gateway to different themes and so on.

So I wonder whether the novels are used in these ways, or whether they are just used as examples of certain types of storytelling or for some other reasons, without delving into any wider/historical context.

Outside of 'The Grapes of Wrath', 'Of Mice and Men' is Steinbeck's most important work as far as I'm concerned. Regarding it's relevance to curricula, it could be argued that the desperate migratory nature of labour in depression era America parallels a lot that is going on in our recession prone world today and could be used to set off interesting discussion points in a classroom.

I agree, it's relatively brief tangent into the realm of racism is fairly fleeting, but why one would think that to be an outrage of some description is a quandary to say the least. Crooks is reduced due to a certain word being used in relation to him, but Steinbeck makes the point clearly that he is more than just the racial slur that's used against him. In fact, the entire book is a pillar AGAINST numerous kinds of discrimination. Steinbeck wrote the novel to highlight that discrimination on the grounds of race, gender and income were things to be considered abhorrent.

It's interesting to note, though, that 'Of Mice and Men' has a history of being banned in America.

HotDudeLife

Is it the year 1984?

Tony EH

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i couldnt read it at all, and not just because id have no interest, it would have seriously bored the sh1te outta me as a teenager

I got lucky with Shaky in the Leaving Cert. I got 'MacBeth'.

I knew a few others had to do stuff like 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.

*Shudder*

petronius

What next? Ban Shakespeare - Othello and Merchant of Venice have racial language and stereotypes we are uncomfortable with. The naysayers should grow up ..

Rubberchikken

Some books might need changing but the curriculum and teaching methods and the end exams are the reason kids exit secondary and enter life/college not having much of a clue about anything.

Banning books and going with the easily offended is not the way to do anything.

Edgware

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Ginger beer.

And what about the dog, Timmy. Thats very insulting to people of Irish origin.
Burn burn burn

ohnonotgmail

Edgware wrote: »

And what about the dog, Timmy. Thats very insulting to people of Irish origin.
Burn burn burn

what?

Tony EH

Timmy?

How's that an insult to Irish people?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Elisa Greasy Bank wrote: »

Seems like the Department of education are thinking of changing the school curriculum because a few people got offended about some books. The books in question are To Kill A Mockingbird and Of Mice and Men. I've never read Of Mice and Men but I did read To Kill A Mockingbird. Powerful book and equally as powerful movie. Removing these books would be a mistake in my opinion. Acknowledging that events like what happened in To Kill A Mockingbird is important for us to move on as a society. We need to see and learn about the events of our past, not forget them and pretend that they didn't exist or never happened. This madness needs to stop..

https://www.thejournal.ie/government-racist-novels-junior-cert-black-lives-matter-5201948-Sep2020/

Why stop there, ban these books and then burn them, in fact lets burn all the books that someone somewhere finds offensive.

Eric Cartman

HotDudeLife wrote: »

Is it the year 1984?

1984 and animal farm should be mandatory reading in schools with any teacher trying to dress them up as anything beyond a warning against the dangers of government interference and the horrors of communism removed from teaching immediately.

Akrasia

The government won't remove these books from the Curriculum, 'the government are considering calls from the public' is PR speak for go away and leave me alone I have work to be doing

They have 'An Triail' on the Leaving cert, a play that deals with how women were so oppressed in the 1960s in Ireland, issues like being abandoned by their partner, family, religion, prostitution, mental illness and suicide.

Removing Tequila Mockingbird because it shows the reality of racism in the american south is not gonna fly because some people complain about the antiquated language

It's not glorifying racism

This is just an article by The Journal looking for clicks from the usual brigade of people getting outraged at the idea that other people are outraged at something.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not glorifying racism

Context doesn't matter anymore.

Scuid Mhór

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

If you were coming up with a curriculum from scratch, which books would you include on it?

The Hungry Caterpillar.

Akrasia

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1984 and animal farm should be mandatory reading in schools with any teacher trying to dress them up as anything beyond a warning against the dangers of government interference and the horrors of communism removed from teaching immediately.

If I were adding books to the Curriculum, I would like to suggest The Jungle by Upton Sinclair

A really important piece exploring the horrors of unregulated capitalism in the US meat industry

Akrasia

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Context doesn't matter anymore.

I'm pretty sure the junior cert children are being taught exactly about context when they read To Kill a Mockingbird

It's probably the first thing most teachers will say before they start reading the book, set the scene and the context for what will happen in the book.

JohnnyFlash

A few emails from cranks and oddballs isn't going to cause a sudden change in educational policy. Very clickbaity stuff from The Journal, which is a site that isn't half as bad as its critics make out - apart from the moronic comments of course.

FunLover18

Last time I checked these books were studied as part of the English curriculum not the history curriculum. There are literally hundreds of books that could be studied at JC level that don't contain the n word.

StackSteevens

petronius wrote: »

What next? Ban Shakespeare - Othello and Merchant of Venice have racial language and stereotypes we are uncomfortable with. The naysayers should grow up ..

Probably.

Soon to be followed by the removal of all references to Nigeria and The Niger from school atlases and geography classes. I wonder where the woke nonsense will end.

BobbyMalone

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1984 and animal farm should be mandatory reading in schools with any teacher trying to dress them up as anything beyond a warning against the dangers of government interference and the horrors of communism removed from teaching immediately.

This is deeply ironic coming from someone who champions Orwell.

Tony EH

BobbyMalone wrote: »

This is deeply ironic coming from someone who champions Orwell.

Doubly so because Orwell was a committed Socialist. :pac:

jaxxx

Oh ffs. Can all these SJWs (social justice warriors for those unaware of the abbreviation) do us all a favour and take a long leap off of a short pier (damn that's like the 5th time I've used that same hyperbole between yesterday/today). You don't learn from past mistakes by burying your head in the sand or pretending it never existed. What's next, gonna remove anything from the History syllabus that depicts racism, violence, etc??

The world has completely lost the f*cking plot altogether.. .. .. Common sense isn't so common anymore!