Government to discuss right to protest

sabat

excludedbin wrote: »

That's what you said. Where's the "artificial blood pouch"? Where's the evidence that they were "injuring themselves"?

EDIT: In fact, the video just shows her already injured. I have no idea what you think that's meant to prove but please, in future, try just a bit harder.

Here's a still from the video:

https://twitter.com/GeorgeRoche17/status/1305108019798315009
It could hardly be more obvious.

Graham

sabat wrote: »

It could hardly be more obvious.

If unknown George has tweeted it, it must be true.

Infini

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Plenty of people weren't wearing masks for the BLM protests in early June and there wasn't surge in cases. If the government ban protesting, it's going to backfire.

To be fair covid was fairly supressed thanks to the lockdown even though it was a fear that it would cause a spike, these are now happening at a time cases are RISING tho.

excludedbin

sabat wrote: »

Here's a still from the video:

https://twitter.com/GeorgeRoche17/status/1305108019798315009
It could hardly be more obvious.

Yes, what's "stuck out of her head" is very obviously a flap of skin. From the equally obvious gash below it that's been helpfully circled so you can't miss it.

I know some here just have to deny, deny, deny that our far right thugs are incapable of violence but when the evidence is staring you right in the face, you'll have to excuse the rest of us for not believing you.

Jesus, c'mon now, if that's really the best you have then you may as well just stop. All you're doing is building up more evidence against your own claims.

sabat

Graham wrote: »

If unknown George has tweeted it, it must be true.

1. Say that you saw some convincing evidence

Response: This "evidence" never materialises.

2. Produce said evidence.

Response: I can't see any "blood pouch"

3. Produce a still clearly showing said blood pouch.

Response: Yeah well, who's that guy anyway?

Graham

Sorry Sabat, I wouldn't class unknown George's interpretation of a photo as evidence of anything.

excludedbin

Oh and as to George's claim that the "Gardaí have confirmed that no incidents took place yesterday.": https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-investigate-assault-dublin-5203692-Sep2020 So maybe take his word with a ****ing mine of salt.

excludedbin

sabat wrote: »

1. Say that you saw some convincing evidence

Response: This "evidence" never materialises.

2. Produce said evidence.

Response: I can't see any "blood pouch"

3. Produce a still clearly showing said blood pouch.

Response: Yeah well, who's that guy anyway?

Except you haven't produced a still showing a blood pouch.

dan1895

https://twitter.com/IzzyKamikaze/status/1305180241409777667?s=19

Sure looks like a blood pouch alright.

Clarence Boddiker

Just a few weeks ago Michael Martin was saying "The rights of people to protest must be respected" when talking about Belarus.

ExMachina1000

There was a thread on "Irish far right " and it went down the path of the alleged assault discussion and arguments. The thread was closed

This thread is about the government thinking that they can decide if protest is allowed or not.
This affects all Irish people. It's more important.
Dont give an excuse to close it here

sabat

dan1895 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IzzyKamikaze/status/1305180241409777667?s=19

Sure looks like a blood pouch alright.

But the mysteriously disappearing "skin flap" was in a completely different place

That was the self-inflicted wound when they realised they had been rumbled:

https://twitter.com/79_gunrunner/status/1305249825638711305

I think I would protest for the first time if the government attempted to restrict that right

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think I would protest for the first time if the government attempted to restrict that right

Its your constitutional right. Men in suits who are currently and always temporarily in power dont get to take that away

excludedbin

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Just a few weeks ago Michael Martin was saying "The rights of people to protest must be respected" when talking about Belarus.

I'd say protesting a fascist dictator is just a bit different than a far right mob looking to assault anyone that looks at them askance. If anything, they're exactly the kind of people the protesters in Belarus would be against.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

There was a thread on "Irish far right " and it went down the path of the alleged assault discussion and arguments. The thread was closed

This thread is about the government thinking that they can decide if protest is allowed or not.
This affects all Irish people. It's more important.
Dont give an excuse to close it here

It's an example of exactly the kind of mobs "protests" the government is talking about. Don't let people drag this thread away from pointing that out.

Far right apologists on this forum will do anything and everything to stop people talking about the violence that far right thugs mete out. If they can't stop you, they'll start crying 'false flag' and invent lies about it.

They don't want to "protest", they want to kick the **** out of anyone they don't like. And while the rest of society accepts that certain temporary restrictions need to be in place and followed because of a bloody pandemic, these dopes just use it as a chance to push their conspiracies and bring more into the fold. Oh and crib because apparently they're super special and don't need to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

HotDudeLife

dan1895 wrote: »

You'd find more worthiness in a piece of dog **** on the pavement than in that rabble of tin foil hat wearing ratlickers.

I'm agnostic to all this in fairness but I've near seen anyone actually wear a tinfoil hat but i have seen plenty of people wear face nappies

sabat

excludedbin wrote: »

Far right apologists on this forum will do anything and everything to stop people talking about the violence that far right thugs mete out. If they can't stop you, they'll start crying 'false flag' and invent lies about it.

They don't want to "protest", they want to kick the **** out of anyone they don't like.

Lies? You said a lesbian woman was singled out and targeted in a homophobic assault. That's just patently untrue. Some unbalanced rainbow and unicorn cultist with a hero complex went down to an anti-government protest looking to provoke people in order to stage a bloody attack and they got caught. That has been proved right here in this thread and if you can't accept that you need to visit Specsavers or a psychiatrist.
This isn't Irish woke Twitter where you can spout any old sh1te and have an instant gang ready to back you up and call you "stunning and brave."

ExMachina1000

excludedbin wrote: »

I'd say protesting a fascist dictator is just a bit different than a far right mob looking to assault anyone that looks at them askance. If anything, they're exactly the kind of people the protesters in Belarus would be against.


It's an example of exactly the kind of mobs "protests" the government is talking about. Don't let people drag this thread away from pointing that out.

Far right apologists on this forum will do anything and everything to stop people talking about the violence that far right thugs mete out. If they can't stop you, they'll start crying 'false flag' and invent lies about it.

They don't want to "protest", they want to kick the **** out of anyone they don't like. And while the rest of society accepts that certain temporary restrictions need to be in place and followed because of a bloody pandemic, these dopes just use it as a chance to push their conspiracies and bring more into the fold. Oh and crib because apparently they're super special and don't need to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

This is about the rights of Irish citizens to protest. Take the personal politics elsewhere

4068ac1elhodqr

Down in Aus the poor Melbo folks are taking some major guff from their state's leader (Socialist Left faction Labor Premier: Daniel Andrews )
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8729683/How-Melbourne-Daniel-Andrews-repressive-China-North-Korea-lockdowns.html

Melburnians are living under coronavirus lockdown rules 'even more severe than communist North Korea or China' - despite having human rights laws*.

*Victoria in 2006 introduced a Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act that supposedly guaranteed 'freedom of movement' where 'every person lawfully within Victoria has the right to move freely within Victoria'.

This bit sounds like a money tree:
Melbourne's five million residents are also fined $1,652 if they are outside between the hours of 8pm and 5am - this is despite police not even requesting any curfew.

To counter this money tree, 'Bans on activities which do not involve human contact or congestion, such as golf, fishing, single person real estate inspection are probably unlawful.'
And Greg Barns, a Senior Counsel barrister who is also the national criminal justice spokesman for the Australian Lawyers Alliance, said people wrongly arrested in Victoria could sue the police using either the charter of human rights or civil law. 'If you prove assault in a civil claim you are entitled to damages,' he told Daily Mail Australia.

excludedbin

sabat wrote: »

Lies? You said a lesbian woman was singled out and targeted in a homophobic assault. That's just patently untrue. Some unbalanced rainbow and unicorn cultist with a hero complex went down to an anti-government protest looking to provoke people in order to stage a bloody attack and they got caught. That has been proved right here in this thread and if you can't accept that you need to visit Specsavers or a psychiatrist.
This isn't Irish woke Twitter where you can spout any old sh1te and have an instant gang ready to back you up and call you "stunning and brave."

You haven't proven a single thing, though.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

This is about the rights of Irish citizens to protest. Take the personal politics elsewhere

I don't see 'Moderator' under your name. And the mob that was formed over the weekend, that is the subject of the minister making those comments, is absolutely relevant. I'm sorry you don't like the violence of the far right being highlighted but I'm not going to mollycoddle anyone about them just because some here support them.

hynesie08

sabat wrote: »

But the mysteriously disappearing "skin flap" was in a completely different place

That was the self-inflicted wound when they realised they had been rumbled:

https://twitter.com/79_gunrunner/status/1305249825638711305

Right, except the cut is in the same place in both pictures...... The "skin flap" is a blood soaked fringe.

AllForIt

excludedbin wrote: »

You haven't proven a single thing, though.


I don't see 'Moderator' under your name. And the mob that was formed over the weekend, that is the subject of the minister making those comments, is absolutely relevant. I'm sorry you don't like the violence of the far right being highlighted but I'm not going to mollycoddle anyone about them just because some here support them.

The counter-protesters deserved what they got.

They turned up because they consider the individual protesters their 'enemy'. They didn't turn up to protest about anything. They just showed up to cause trouble. They caused trouble and then they got what they deserved.

I actually think it's quite funny what happened to them. They come across more unhinged than the 'far right' crowd. What's with that full length Nazi looking coat at this time of year. Let's face it - their just that bit weirdo type.

M5

AllForIt wrote: »

The counter-protesters deserved what they got.

They turned up because they consider the individual protesters their 'enemy'. They didn't turn up to protest about anything. They just showed up to cause trouble. They caused trouble and then they got what they deserved.

I actually think it's quite funny what happened to them. They come across more unhinged than the 'far right' crowd. What's with that full length Nazi looking coat at this time of year. Let's face it - their just that bit weirdo type.

They don't subscribe to your definition of normal, therefore deserve a beating?

coinop

Remember 10 years ago the crusties would be holding rallies and marches for Palestine every weekend? Don’t see too much of that anymore. Seems like Black Lives Matter is stealing the limelight now as the latest trendy bandwagon to jump on. I wonder what their next fashionable cause will be?

Wanderer78

coinop wrote:

Remember 10 years ago the crusties would be holding rallies and marches for Palestine every weekend? Don’t see too much of that anymore. Seems like Black Lives Matter is stealing the limelight now as the latest trendy bandwagon to jump on. I wonder what their next fashionable cause will be?

Some environmental thing maybe, climate issues or something. .....

ceannbui

jesus, just ban ratlickers from licking rats in public during a pandemic. its pretty ****ing simple. Conspiracy theory is the gateway to fascism, because to believe in the tenets of fascism requires an abandonment of critical thinking and trust in science in order to twist your understanding of the world in such a way that fascist nonsense makes sense. People should stop playing games with these fascists and understand that the goal is to reshape the body politic in such a way that minorities and leftists are excluded, exported or executed

Richard Hillman

Antifa and socialists were putting out rethoric implying that were going to use violence to remove the protesters that were outside the customs House a few weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/AntifaSquads/status/1297096078496595969?s=19

They tried to enter a garda cordon but were fought back and subsequently battered.

I didn't even know the protests were organised for Saturday just gone were organised but when an Antifa affiliated mob turn up you know they are there for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Any time these people turn up at a protest it is for violence, therefore any act in deterrence is self defence.

There was a separate protest on O'Connell Street by socialists. If they are true peaceful protesters, that is the way forward. A counter protest in another part of the city.

yoke

I think its been established that this wasn't exactly a peaceful protest, of the sort that should be protected by the constitution.

Random members of the public, whether they be gay, lesbian, different ethnic background or whatever should not feel intimidated just because a protest is passing by.

A normal civilised protest would be self-policing in this regard, I have seen plenty of people walk past "normal" protests without being attacked or intimidated, and if they were, then the other protesters themselves would stick up for the random person getting assaulted.

This obviously wasn't a normal protest. More like an Orange Order march, designed to provoke, and where noone is going to stick up for an assault victim against "one of their own".

Once a protest is no longer self-policing, it's become a mob, which must be stopped (by the police).

I'm surprised at the Gardai, hearing that noone has yet been arrested for an assault which happened right in front of gardai doesnt fill me with confidence in their abilities. What the **** are they at?

paw patrol

dan1895 wrote: »

You'd find more worthiness in a piece of dog **** on the pavement than in that rabble of tin foil hat wearing ratlickers.

Infini wrote: »

Why should those who deny reality and perpetuate the spread of a potent and lethal virus be allowed to so without consequence? The Majority of protest's usually have a genuine concern or issue of actual importance or concern. They also have at least tried or mads sure to adhere to health advice because they dont wish harm to society or others but only to highlight issues.

.

you both miss the point, once the principal is set of what is a worthy cause or not then we fall down the hole of banning the ones we (or those in power) don't like.

If you don't see that , then there is no point arguing with you.
We all laugh cos Gemma today and then get pissy cos it's your cause next year...
We have 2 authoritarian personalities in power at the moment coveney and michael martin both would only relish the thought of banning protests they didn't like.

dan1895

I have no problem with legitimate protests, even those I don't agree with. This lot however are a mob using conspiracy theories to further their agenda. Their opinion as anti-science and anti-5g is is pathetic and dangerous to the wider public.

Eric Cartman

AllForIt wrote: »

The counter-protesters deserved what they got.

They turned up because they consider the individual protesters their 'enemy'. They didn't turn up to protest about anything. They just showed up to cause trouble. They caused trouble and then they got what they deserved.

I actually think it's quite funny what happened to them. They come across more unhinged than the 'far right' crowd. What's with that full length Nazi looking coat at this time of year. Let's face it - their just that bit weirdo type.

While I find it very hard to agree that they deserved ‘ a beating’ , I do not for one second believe that whoever did that knew they were hitting a woman, let alone a lesbian so trying to brand this attack as anything more than silencing a counter protestor is nonsense , and secondly those 2-3 people who went there to counter protest did so to provoke violence and interrupt the democratic right to protest. They didn't come there to peacefully stand by.

However If it was the other way round and you had two-three thugs that were Presumed right wing walking into a left wing march trying to stir things up and got chased out of there with a ‘physical warning’ i suspect the people outraged about this incident here would be the first to say the exact same ‘they deserved it’

TomTomTim

dan1895 wrote: »

I have no problem with legitimate protests, even those I don't agree with. This lot however are a mob using conspiracy theories to further their agenda. Their opinion as anti-science and anti-5g is is pathetic and dangerous to the wider public.

You people seem to really struggle to get it. It doesn't matter what they believe, once what they believe is legal they have the right to protest. I disagree with nearly every left wing protest you'll find, and think that their positions are often based on lies, yet I'll never say they don't have a right to protest. In a free society people are free to believe what they want.

Wombatman

Allow the anti-maskers gather and march.......... as long as they follow public health guidelines and wear masks. Simples.

Yellow_Fern

ceannbui wrote: »

jesus, just ban ratlickers from licking rats in public during a pandemic. its pretty ****ing simple. Conspiracy theory is the gateway to fascism, because to believe in the tenets of fascism requires an abandonment of critical thinking and trust in science in order to twist your understanding of the world in such a way that fascist nonsense makes sense. People should stop playing games with these fascists and understand that the goal is to reshape the body politic in such a way that minorities and leftists are excluded, exported or executed

I don't agree with the protest's message but this sort of rant you have is dangerously polarizing. I think it is beyond far fetched to claim that a significant number of attendees were fascist. BTW belief in science was a huge element of fascism. Fascism such as in Germany or Italy was very much a humanist focused movement, a utopian movement rather than a fundamentalist or reactionary movement. This is perhaps not true in Franco's Spain but Franco's Spain wasn't fascistm. It was falangism.

excludedbin

AllForIt wrote: »

The counter-protesters deserved what they got.

They turned up because they consider the individual protesters their 'enemy'. They didn't turn up to protest about anything. They just showed up to cause trouble. They caused trouble and then they got what they deserved.

I actually think it's quite funny what happened to them. They come across more unhinged than the 'far right' crowd. What's with that full length Nazi looking coat at this time of year. Let's face it - their just that bit weirdo type.

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

TomTomTim

excludedbin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

The irony here is too much. Most of the people here against the right to protest for people that they don't like are not far right, they are on your side of the spectrum.

Eric Cartman

excludedbin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

theres a world of difference between standing on the other side of the street or standing on oconnell street as other counter protestors did and going in to the middle of a group of protestors and screaming trying to silence the original protest. The far left have rented PA equipment, brought megaphones etc.. to anti mask / anti paedophile protests trying to shut them down.

there is definitely a violent element on both sides. But I never see anybody bring equipment to left protests which stops people from hearing speakers or people walking right into the middle of protests and kicking off.

mulbot

There were 3 protests. One on o connelly Street, one outside the Dail, and one that gathered at the Custom House. The Custom House protest was against Government corruption, and the restrictions being imposed, incl masks etc. This and the O Connel Street protest were peaceful and without incidents. The clip of the girl in black jacket included the 3rd protest. Don't mix up which was which.

keano_afc

excludedbin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

This is genuinely hilarious. Kamikaze and her mates turn up to these protests simply because they want anyone who doesn't agree with them thrown off the streets. Isn't her mad mate Doherty the one who flings milkshakes over people she doesnt agree with? They're notoriously intolerant.

Eric Cartman

keano_afc wrote: »

This is genuinely hilarious. Kamikaze and her mates turn up to these protests simply because they want anyone who doesn't agree with them thrown off the streets. Isn't her mad mate Doherty the one who flings milkshakes over people she doesnt agree with? They're notoriously intolerant.

thats it, not just enough to make their opposition heard, views they don't like have to be shut down.

dan1895

The FNG wrote: »

If you can protest about some random black guy getting killed in America then you can certainly protest about issues in your own country.

Equating a civil liberties matter with conspiracy theorist. Ok.

dan1895

excludedbin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

I heard an interview with her today and she actually turned up to observe and didn't open her mouth. The speaker recognised her and drew the crowds attention to them and that's when they were attacked.

Augme

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres a world of difference between standing on the other side of the street or standing on oconnell street as other counter protestors did and going in to the middle of a group of protestors and screaming trying to silence the original protest. The far left have rented PA equipment, brought megaphones etc.. to anti mask / anti paedophile protests trying to shut them down.

there is definitely a violent element on both sides. But I never see anybody bring equipment to left protests which stops people from hearing speakers or people walking right into the middle of protests and kicking off.

That's because the far right brigade are cowards. They would be far too scared to gett involved in any situation where they were outnumbered.

You see in their behaviour how they are happy to pick on a tiny group of women. But anything more than that they would just be too scared. Its a bit embarrassing for them really.

Mad_maxx

excludedbin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. They showed up to counter protest and, as they always do, the far righters turned violent because they simply cannot hack anyone disagreeing with them. If the far right are allowed protest then the rest of us are just as free to counter protest. Freedom of speech goes both ways.

Says a lot that you think non-far right people exercising their freedom of speech deserves violence being meted out to them, though.

being opposed to wearing masks doesnt make you " far right "

the " far right " movement in ireland is miniscule and has no power in terms of media , the far left is large and has loads of friends in media

the activist class need to exaggerate the " far right " presence , its good for their career never mind anything else

The FNG

The FNG wrote: »

If you can protest about some random black guy getting killed in America then you can certainly protest about issues in your own country.

And once the issue of covid has passed, I have no issue with anyone wishing to peacefully protest. They can protest the sun rising, or inheritance tax. Whatever. Go for it. Once covid has passed.

Protesting now is irresponsible, and puts others at risk.

Mad_maxx

ceannbui wrote: »

jesus, just ban ratlickers from licking rats in public during a pandemic. its pretty ****ing simple. Conspiracy theory is the gateway to fascism, because to believe in the tenets of fascism requires an abandonment of critical thinking and trust in science in order to twist your understanding of the world in such a way that fascist nonsense makes sense. People should stop playing games with these fascists and understand that the goal is to reshape the body politic in such a way that minorities and leftists are excluded, exported or executed

the WOKE left abandon science when it comes to believing in multiple genders ?

TomTomTim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

being opposed to wearing masks doesnt make you " far right "

the " far right " movement in ireland is miniscule and has no power in terms of media , the far left is large and has loads of friends in media

the activist class need to exaggerate the " far right " presence , its good for their career never mind anything else

You should know well by now, that all you have to do is oppose these people on one issue alone to be labelled "far right". It's becoming a meaningless term politically.

excludedbin

TomTomTim wrote: »

The irony here is too much. Most of the people here against the right to protest for people that they don't like are not far right, they are on your side of the spectrum.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres a world of difference between standing on the other side of the street or standing on oconnell street as other counter protestors did and going in to the middle of a group of protestors and screaming trying to silence the original protest. The far left have rented PA equipment, brought megaphones etc.. to anti mask / anti paedophile protests trying to shut them down.

there is definitely a violent element on both sides. But I never see anybody bring equipment to left protests which stops people from hearing speakers or people walking right into the middle of protests and kicking off.

keano_afc wrote: »

This is genuinely hilarious. Kamikaze and her mates turn up to these protests simply because they want anyone who doesn't agree with them thrown off the streets. Isn't her mad mate Doherty the one who flings milkshakes over people she doesnt agree with? They're notoriously intolerant.

None of that changes the fact that it was only the far righters that attacked someone that had the sheer audacity to exercise her right to free speech and counter protest their rally. Again, says a lot about all of you that all you do is try to excuse and justify the violence when it's against people you disagree with.

And as usual, we're seeing "the term far right has lost all meaning", because admitting that they exist would force their defenders to admit they support violence against anyone that disagrees with them.

Which they do, of course, as evinced by their continual excuses and pitiful justifications. I'm sure you're only sorry you weren't there with them.

323

Deleted User wrote: »

And once the issue of covid has passed, I have no issue with anyone wishing to peacefully protest. They can protest the sun rising, or inheritance tax. Whatever. Go for it. Once covid has passed.

Protesting now is irresponsible, and puts others at risk.

So freedom of expression is for those who fit in with your beliefs and follow whatever the current government say.


Those not conforming, are therefore either irresponsible, conspiracy theorists, far left, far right.


Find the fact the government is talking about discussing this terrifying.



Anyone for limited Martial Law? Only for the irresponsible, conspiracy theorists, far left, far right etc.

Eric Cartman

TomTomTim wrote: »

You should know well by now, that all you have to do is oppose these people on one issue alone to be labelled "far right". It's becoming a meaningless term politically.

sure you're either a paedo or a nazi now, theres absolutely 0 middle ground. most people out there are protesting peacefully but theres a handful of thugs and the counter protesting thugs draw them out into clashes.

Ireland has such a tiny far right movement it barely exists , so the larger (but still tiny) far left movement have to pretend that everything is far right in order to perpetuate fear that somehow a country that is governed by centre left politics with the same crowd of far left td's and mep's getting re-elected, that roundly has rejected the political campaigns of anyone even vaguely right of centre , is somehow under attack from the far right.