Guinness Pro12 Season 2020-2021

Lost Ormond

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think the finances will be there to run a tournament like that.

Maybe but if you dont know how club level is going to be played and provinces will want more games for players under their control.
Games at this level have always been loss making. Next season wouldnt be any different. Just look at attendances at most A games going back to many british and irish cup games.

thomond2006

Festive Life wrote: »

Maybe but if you dont know how club level is going to be played and provinces will want more games for players under their control.
Games at this level have always been loss making. Next season wouldnt be any different. Just look at attendances at most A games going back to many british and irish cup games.

Can we afford more loss making games?
Even A internationals have been quietly retired for years.

Lost Ormond

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can we afford more loss making games?
Even A internationals have been quietly retired for years.

If you were to get rid of everything that was loss making you would have virtually no rugby at all to watch at any level.
Maybe if you got more people to support rugby live other than their province, the national team and turning up once a season at their club, or the school they attended in the schools cup we would be in a much better place.

When was the last time you attended a game of rugby that wasnt a professional game?

IRFU would play A games if there were sides to play them on regular basis. English got rid of them with deal with clubs. French dropped them over player release and the celts dropped them for financial reasons.
Shame. International weekends used to have 4/5/6 games at various levels now we just have 3 which is not good for the sport.

thomond2006

Festive Life wrote: »

If you were to get rid of everything that was loss making you would have virtually no rugby at all to watch at any level.
Maybe if you got more people to support rugby live other than their province, the national team and turning up once a season at their club, or the school they attended in the schools cup we would be in a much better place.

When was the last time you attended a game of rugby that wasnt a professional game?

Careful, don't fall off your pulpit. G'luck.

Lost Ormond

thomond2006 wrote: »

Careful, don't fall off your pulpit. G'luck.

Not on anything. It was a Simple question. Pro rugby is just a small part of the sport. It doesnt exist without all the rest. How can you only support the pro part of the game and express little to no interest in the remaining 99.9% of the game.
The provincial sides dont exist without the clubs and schools and all the work they do.

Blut2

I don't think its really a case of "why doesn't thomond2006 go to more club games" as much as "the IRFU is currently hemorrhaging cash and making swinging cuts across all levels of its operations. Its high unlikely to be able to afford/likely to view positively any new ways to lose more cash at present".

PMC83

Festive Life wrote: »

How can you only support the pro part of the game and express little to no interest in the remaining 99.9% of the game.

Because the pro part is widely televised and easy to keep abreast of via the usual news outlets.

Lots of folks with young kids, weekend work or whatever just cant make it to an AIL or A game. Theres a provincial game on free to air every week, sometimes more. Its just easier to get behind as its more accessible.

Lost Ormond

PMC83 wrote: »

Because the pro part is widely televised and easy to keep abreast of via the usual news outlets.

Lots of folks with young kids, weekend work or whatever just cant make it to an AIL or A game. Theres a provincial game on free to air every week, sometimes more. Its just easier to get behind as its more accessible.

Im talking about attending games even several times a season. It was discussed here a while back that they should include entry to AIL games in provincial season tickets or something like that. It shouldnt have to be that.
It doesnt take much to attend a club game every few weeks even with young kids etc.
I mainly work thursday to Sunday yet can do it. The grassroots drive the pro game. If people keep ignoring the amateur game eventually it will have a significant effect on the pro game and wheat then?

PMC83

Festive Life wrote: »

Im talking about attending games even several times a season. It was discussed here a while back that they should include entry to AIL games in provincial season tickets or something like that. It shouldnt have to be that.
It doesnt take much to attend a club game every few weeks even with young kids etc.
I mainly work thursday to Sunday yet can do it. The grassroots drive the pro game. If people keep ignoring the amateur game eventually it will have a significant effect on the pro game and wheat then?

I hear what you are saying. For me its generally not handy to go to an afternoon game, so the 7.35 pro14 ones are the games I buy tickets for. However, when I'm not going I can follow the matches much more closely and build an invested interest in it to to the level of cover. This keeps my interest.


The issue with the AIL for me is that its just too hard to follow if you cnat attend. If games were streamed people could watch a few, have an idea of the players in the squad and how they are going and be more likely to attend. I understand that the ail isn't professional but its poorly marketed. Scroll down their facebook page and theres a handfull of posts, very little in terms of highlights.

Lost Ormond

PMC83 wrote: »

I hear what you are saying. For me its generally not handy to go to an afternoon game, so the 7.35 pro14 ones are the games I buy tickets for. However, when I'm not going I can follow the matches much more closely and build an invested interest in it to to the level of cover. This keeps my interest.

The issue with the AIL for me is that its just too hard to follow if you cnat attend. If games were streamed people could watch a few, have an idea of the players in the squad and how they are going and be more likely to attend. I understand that the ail isn't professional but its poorly marketed. Scroll down their facebook page and theres a handfull of posts, very little in terms of highlights.

A lot of the marketing is left to clubs to be fair and it should be.
Clubs do need more help from union both centrally from IRFU and the provinces to train their officers in how to promote the club better through social media, website as well as postering etc.
Clubs cant always afford to stream games, get people to do it.

PMC83

Its a bit chicken or egg I guess. I know a few fans who attend pro14 games because they caught a few casually on tg4 and decided they'd start to check them out live. Interest builds. Would be hard to get to these same people to an ail match, they've never seen it and all they know is its not professional.



At the end of the day plenty of people only want to follow the professional side of a sport and I totally get that. They want to see the best.

molloyjh

Festive Life wrote: »

Im talking about attending games even several times a season. It was discussed here a while back that they should include entry to AIL games in provincial season tickets or something like that. It shouldnt have to be that.
It doesnt take much to attend a club game every few weeks even with young kids etc.
I mainly work thursday to Sunday yet can do it. The grassroots drive the pro game. If people keep ignoring the amateur game eventually it will have a significant effect on the pro game and wheat then?

I absolutely love how some people are able to tell others what is or isn't possible for them to do. It never gets old. Experts. Experts everywhere.

Lost Ormond

PMC83 wrote: »

Its a bit chicken or egg I guess. I know a few fans who attend pro14 games because they caught a few casually on tg4 and decided they'd start to check them out live. Interest builds. Would be hard to get to these same people to an ail match, they've never seen it and all they know is its not professional.

At the end of the day plenty of people only want to follow the professional side of a sport and I totally get that. They want to see the best.

That it isnt professional shouldnt stop people going to club games. Clubs need help to get parents of kids playing to go to games as well and provide a better "match day experience" for those who do attend their club every 2nd saturday or sunday

molloyjh wrote: »

I absolutely love how some people are able to tell others what is or isn't possible for them to do. It never gets old. Experts. Experts everywhere.

Molloy we've met before at club game or at least it was pub before i went to the club game and you and T2006 went off elsewhere before going to leinster game about 6 years ago....
i just think more should be thinking beyond the professional game. The amateur game is struggling yet there is thousands of so called rugby fans who havent a clue, IRFUs fault as much as anyone elses, about the sport beyond that level.
The sport needs that support to filter down or there will be trouble in years to come.

molloyjh

Festive Life wrote: »

Molloy we've met before at club game or at least it was pub before i went to the club game and you and T2006 went off elsewhere before going to leinster game about 6 years ago....
i just think more should be thinking beyond the professional game. The amateur game is struggling yet there is thousands of so called rugby fans who havent a clue, IRFUs fault as much as anyone elses, about the sport beyond that level.
The sport needs that support to filter down or there will be trouble in years to come.

I get that. I moved to Greystones nearly 4 years ago and after a few months decided to start looking at going to games there. The vast, vast majority clash with Leinster games. Its been very frustrating as being forced to choose between the province I have been following for years and have already paid my ticket for or paying extra to see a club game for a place I have a very limited connection to is only ever going to go 1 way.

Where I lived previously didn't have a local club really, at least not in a recognisable way (it was miles away and I neither lived in the area or grew up there). I also knew the sum total of 2 other people in the area (commuter town). So I joined Clontarf to play as it was the best option overall, being sort of a mid way point between work (for training during the week) and home (for games at the weekend). But it was still a really awkward location for where I lived. Back then I went to every home Leinster Senior and A game.

But since having a kid my ability to even go to Leinster Senior games has been reduced. I haven't been to an A game since shes been born. I only get to every second Friday night game (my wife is a fan too). Dont underestimate the impact kids have on a person's life. Its really, really big. You've less time for everything and have to try and juggle everything so much more. I'd love to get to more club games, but its more time that I need to find from somewhere and isnt made easy by the scheduling.

Lost Ormond

molloyjh wrote: »

I get that. I moved to Greystones nearly 4 years ago and after a few months decided to start looking at going to games there. The vast, vast majority clash with Leinster games. Its been very frustrating as being forced to choose between the province I have been following for years and have already paid my ticket for or paying extra to see a club game for a place I have a very limited connection to is only ever going to go 1 way.

Where I lived previously didn't have a local club really, at least not in a recognisable way (it was miles away and I neither lived in the area or grew up there). I also knew the sum total of 2 other people in the area (commuter town). So I joined Clontarf to play as it was the best option overall, being sort of a mid way point between work (for training during the week) and home (for games at the weekend). But it was still a really awkward location for where I lived. Back then I went to every home Leinster Senior and A game.

But since having a kid my ability to even go to Leinster Senior games has been reduced. I haven't been to an A game since shes been born. I only get to every second Friday night game (my wife is a fan too). Dont underestimate the impact kids have on a person's life. Its really, really big. You've less time for everything and have to try and juggle everything so much more. I'd love to get to more club games, but its more time that I need to find from somewhere and isnt made easy by the scheduling.

Thats understandable.
Its just rugby is so big at schools level and after that for all too many it becomes a social outlet but not through playing at all and is an easy way out for people to go drinking watching games until they settle down have kids, where they may help coach them a bit/go watch club/schools games and then the cycle starts over again. That isnt sustainable for the sport in the long term.
For a lot you can always support your club at an amateur level and support province/pro teams through watching on tv, occasionally go to games.

molloyjh

Festive Life wrote: »

Thats understandable.
Its just rugby is so big at schools level and after that for all too many it becomes a social outlet but not through playing at all and is an easy way out for people to go drinking watching games until they settle down have kids, where they may help coach them a bit/go watch club/schools games and then the cycle starts over again. That isnt sustainable for the sport in the long term.
For a lot you can always support your club at an amateur level and support province/pro teams through watching on tv, occasionally go to games.

I never went to a rugby school myself. I grew up in a GAA area and rugby wasn't even on my radar until I was already out of school. But maybe the issue there is that the connection many people feel is to their school and so they never feel the same connection for their local club? With the amount of rugby on the go too, its all but impossible to keep up with all levels unless you're exceptionally interested in the game and have a lot of time on your hands. I imagine if I stay where I am I'll become far more involved in the local club as my daughter gets older and I have more free time. But for right now, I'm lucky to get to see Ireland and Leinster live.

PMC83

Festive Life wrote: »

That it isnt professional shouldnt stop people going to club games.

It does though. That's the reality of most sports whether you want it to be or not.

Festive Life wrote: »

The amateur game is struggling yet there is thousands of so called rugby fans who havent a clue, IRFUs fault as much as anyone elses, about the sport beyond that level.

You seem to be implying that they are not real fans because they don't follow the game at a lower level. I never understood this attitude. Not all Dubs fans will follow their local club, not all Liverpool fans will go and watch Rovers play in Tallaght stadium. I follow F1 but you wont catch me down at Mondello park watching the carting either.


People will always be attracted to the top end of any sport, and why not. Adults and Kids alike are going to be more interested in seeing the likes of Ringrose, Bundee, Stockdale or any of the Irish front liners rather then an AIL squad. That's just life.

Lost Ormond

molloyjh wrote: »

I never went to a rugby school myself. I grew up in a GAA area and rugby wasn't even on my radar until I was already out of school. But maybe the issue there is that the connection many people feel is to their school and so they never feel the same connection for their local club? With the amount of rugby on the go too, its all but impossible to keep up with all levels unless you're exceptionally interested in the game and have a lot of time on your hands. I imagine if I stay where I am I'll become far more involved in the local club as my daughter gets older and I have more free time. But for right now, I'm lucky to get to see Ireland and Leinster live.

Oh its very much in Dublin about the connection people/men feel to their school and not to a club and something is very wrong with that. No other sport is anywhere near like that. And i coach and am involved in a rugby school and the rugby they play.
I dont think it is impossible to even occasionally turn up/get involved in your local club even with busy work/home life.
There's a huge amount of young professionals who attend provincial games who dont have these family ties and work isnt such a pull on them that they cant get involved in some way in their local club. It doesnt have to be playing, it can simply be supporting the team every couple of weekends. That would help the sport in multiples of what it would take to actually do.

PMC83 wrote: »

It does though. That's the reality of most sports whether you want it to be or not.

You seem to be implying that they are not real fans because they don't follow the game at a lower level. I never understood this attitude. Not all Dubs fans will follow their local club, not all Liverpool fans will go and watch Rovers play in Tallaght stadium. I follow F1 but you wont catch me down at Mondello park watching the carting either.

People will always be attracted to the top end of any sport, and why not. Adults and Kids alike are going to be more interested in seeing the likes of Ringrose, Bundee, Stockdale or any of the Irish front liners rather then an AIL squad. That's just life.

Saying youre a real fan or all that is nonsense.
You see in GAA many many kids who will always go to their club games, they want to go to these with their friends, their parents as much as they do the inter county games where they see the stars. Rugby needs to get that back. its losing so much from people who clearly have a big interest in the sport having played it extensively through their teens and watch it religiously but have no other involvement..
The level of involvement of GAA fans and supporting clubs extensively and also expressing an interest in the inter county game is a million miles better than rugby.
If you quizzed a thousand fans at a munster hurling championship game between any of the competing counties and asked how regularly they attend club hurling games or when was the last time they attended a club game the answer will be in 80-90% that they will have attended a club game within the last 2-3 months.
You in no way could say the same about the vast majority of those who attend pro rugby games. That is not good for the sport in medium/long term.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1348732151500574720?s=19

awec

Friendlies? :pac:

Surely they are not going to risk playing a daft friendly match now?

Lost Ormond

awec wrote: »

Friendlies? :pac:

Surely they are not going to risk playing a daft friendly match now?

would suit welsh. it would most likely be welsh pro14 derbies brought forward not an actual friendly i guess.

bilston

awec wrote: »

Friendlies? :pac:

Surely they are not going to risk playing a daft friendly match now?

Unless they sell TV rights it would be completely pointless.

They would make no money, they'd risk injury and in the current climate would be risking cross contamination of bubbles.

thomond2006

Ospreys sign Tomas Francis from Exeter. He had to sign in Wales to continue his international career.

bilston

Personally I'd put the entire rugby season on ice for a month, maybe 6 weeks, and just push everything back, so 6Ns starts in March and ends in April, the Champions Cup resumes in May and finishes in June and the Premiership/Pro 14 (Rainbow Cup) ends in July. The Lions tour is a pipedream anyway, so it should be cancelled or postponed.

PMC83

Feel bad for Keatly, always seemed like a decent skin


https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0111/1189076-out-half-ian-keatley-makes-early-benetton-exit/


Its a real downer as Treviso have actually played some lovely rugby at times this season. Just cant seem to get a win.

Pudsy33

Rumoured to be on his way to Glasgow.

hahashake

bilston wrote: »

Personally I'd put the entire rugby season on ice for a month, maybe 6 weeks, and just push everything back, so 6Ns starts in March and ends in April, the Champions Cup resumes in May and finishes in June and the Premiership/Pro 14 (Rainbow Cup) ends in July. The Lions tour is a pipedream anyway, so it should be cancelled or postponed.

Rainbow Cup is a non-starter this year I'd assume?

OldRio

Glasgow v Edinburgh this weekend. Munster v Leinster next weekend.

Clegg

Kieran Crowley is leaving Benneton at the end of the season. Shame about what's happened to them. For a while it seemed like they were building a good side. It's not that long ago that they were robbed of a league QF victory against Munster.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1349025584878395393?s=09

PMC83

Clegg wrote: »

Kieran Crowley is leaving Benneton at the end of the season. Shame about what's happened to them. For a while it seemed like they were building a good side. It's not that long ago that they were robbed of a league QF victory against Munster.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1349025584878395393?s=09

Agh thats a real downer. They were going so well a while back, wonder what happened.

Digifriendly

Pro 14 website announcement -
Glasgow vs Edinburgh (postponed due to frozen pitch) rescheduled for this Saturday 16th Jan. at 5.15pm
Munster vs Leinster (postponed due to Covid cases) rescheduled for Sat. 23rd Jan. at 7.35pm

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/r9-rescheduled-fixtures-confirmed

Eod100

Postponed Zebre v Edinbugh game scheduled for 23rd:

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/round-11-zebre-v-edinburgh-rescheduled

PMC83

Weir back to Glasgow. Looks like Keatly isn't going there.


https://www.the42.ie/glasgow-weir-munster-healy-5323815-Jan2021/

Lost Ormond

Cardiff Blues have added Alan Kingsley to their coaching team this week as a kicking consultant.

Kingsley also works in a similar consultancy capacity with Dragons and Biarritz Olympique, and will primarily work on individual skills with Cardiff Blues academy backs.

When coaching in AIL with Navan he was central in their rise to division 1. Real top class coach
https://cardiffblues.com/news/kingsley-joins-cardiff-blues-academy-as-kicking-consultant

Cookiemunster

PMC83 wrote: »

Weir back to Glasgow. Looks like Keatly isn't going there.


https://www.the42.ie/glasgow-weir-munster-healy-5323815-Jan2021/

Weir won't be there until next season. Keatley to Glasgow was reported to be until the end of this season.

Eod100

R14 Scarlets v Cardiff match moved to next weekend.

Connacht v Ospreys rescheduled match as well.


https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/more-games-added-jan-2021

connachta

Eod100 wrote: »

R14 Scarlets v Cardiff match moved to next weekend.

Connacht v Ospreys rescheduled match as well.


https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/more-games-added-jan-2021

2 massive games in a Connacht perspective


If it's 5 points to nil for Cardiff, we can say we're in Champions Cup in 2021-22

Boscoirl

Balls. Was full sure the Glasgow v Edinburgh game was on now. Pretty sure I even read that KO time on Ultimate rugby.

Borders no.2

It might have been mentioned earlier in the thread but checking the Pro 12 table why have Ospreys, Glasgow and Zebre swapped groups with Scarlets, Edinburgh and Treviso 🀔

Cookiemunster

Borders no.2 wrote: »

It might have been mentioned earlier in the thread but checking the Pro 12 table why have Ospreys, Glasgow and Zebre swapped groups with Scarlets, Edinburgh and Treviso 🀔

They haven't. It's just a glitch.

connachta

Glasgow (and Connacht inderectly for qualification) saved by a train horn!!

Embra SH kicked to ball out, conceeding a pen before HT, mistaking it with the buzzer

That's what rugby is about

connachta

Glasgow used to win with Peter Horne. Now they win with train horn Pure magic

https://twitter.com/i/status/1350509142256066560

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Weir won't be there until next season. Keatley to Glasgow was reported to be until the end of this season.

Keatley to Glasgow until the end of the season has been confirmed.
https://twitter.com/GlasgowWarriors/status/1351152671726718976

PMC83

Good for him, was wondering if he'd go back to London Irish

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/psixaba/status/1351146258833039361?s=19

Burkie1203

Pro14 almost certainly reverting to full programme of games and playoffs.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1351187525503766528?s=19

Eod100

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Pro14 almost certainly reverting to full programme of games and playoffs.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1351187525503766528?s=19

It always seemed fairly ambitious trying it this year with everything going on

Zzippy

Eod100 wrote: »

It always seemed fairly ambitious desperate trying it this year with everything going on

FYP

irelandrover

I assumed they wanted the South African teams to get competitive games before the lions tour. I'd expect a statement soon saying the lions tour is postponed now since the Rainbow cup won't go ahead.

Burkie1203

irelandrover wrote: »

I assumed they wanted the South African teams to get competitive games before the lions tour. I'd expect a statement soon saying the lions tour is postponed now since the Rainbow cup won't go ahead.

They already said decision will be at the end of February.