Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

decies

No team yet . Limerick announced theirs

Deskjockey

No Kyle Hayes for Limerick for some reason. Let the mind games begin

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958654#Comment_118958654

It's common knowledge he went off last Sunday with a hamstring issue. Hardly going to risk him in a round Robin game

Deskjockey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958666#Comment_118958666

Fair enough, I didn't see the full match, only the highlights

conor05

Cathal O’Neill rumoured to be getting his first championship ship start under Kiely instead of the injured Hayes.

Though Hayes will be straight back in when he’s fit, he is an animal of a hurler!

Giveitfong

I can confirm Seán Flynn’s analysis of Waterford’s short puckout success rate last Sunday (see carq’s link above to his article on the42.ie). They had 12 short puckouts, from which they had what I termed success with just three, with “success” defined as getting clean possession outside the Waterford 65 metre line. They hit 23 long puckouts, of which they won eight, a success rate of 35%, which is a higher success rate than for the short puckouts, but still very low. As I noted in my match report, Waterford won the last four of their long puckouts, as Tipperary appeared to tire. Prior to that, Waterford won just 21% of their long puckouts. This contributed hugely to Tipperary’s dominance in the midfield area (at least in the first half), which helps explain Flynn’s finding that they had a phenomenal 96% success rate in finding their own players with balls delivered in from this area.

Clearly, if this is repeated against Limerick, it is curtains for Waterford. I didn’t do the actual counts, but in the Wexford game Waterford repeatedly worked the ball into midfield from short puckouts, from where they sent good ball into the full forward line. They also did this against Cork in the second half to good effect, mixing up hitting balls to the inside line with running at the Cork defence from midfield. I think the latter tactic is one which can differentiate Waterford from the other counties, using the pace and skill of the likes of Jamie Barron, Jack Prendergast, Calum Lyons, Neil Montgomery and Cárthach Daly. However, this requires getting sufficient good possession in the midfield area, and to achieve this, Waterford need to be able to work the ball out from short puckouts. The good news is that, when they did get possession in midfield, their ability to find team mates last Sunday (80%) was higher than Limerick’s against Cork (69%), according to Flynn’s analysis.

Placing four defenders on the 20-metre line (presumably Tadhg de Búrca and the three full backs) to receive short puckouts (like Limerick do) may be the key to this. This would also require the Waterford midfielders to come back into the half back line with at least two half forwards coming back to midfield. Bombing long puckouts down on Diarmuid Byrnes, Dan Morrissey, William O’Donoghue and Darragh O’Donovan is unlikely to yield much possession.

Waterford also need to push up on the Limerick 20-metre line to stop their short puckouts at source, while also making sure that Tom Morrissey and Gearóid Hegarty, who tend to hug the sideline on their own 65 metre line as alternative outlets for Quaid’s puckouts, are also tracked. Of course, having a marker on Hegarty and stopping him gaining possession are two separate things. Quaid is excellent at finding team-mates with long, directed, puckouts so the entire Waterford team needs to be on its toes to close down targets for these puckouts.

Mastermcgrath

Kyle Hayes out it appears

decies

Must be waiting till 23.59 to release team

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958873#Comment_118958873

" using the pace and skill of the likes of Jamie Barron, Jack Prendergast, Callum Lyons, Neil Montgomery and Cárthach Daly"

Do you honestly think that will work? Hasn't worked before has it? Why will it work now?

Waterford need to bring something new to the table that Limerick haven't seen before. But they can't use it in this game. There's a chance Waterford will beat Limerick this year. But if they manage it now, in Limerick's backyard, there's no way in hell Limerick will let Waterford beat Limerick twice in one year. Not a hope.

Cahill better not show Kiely and co much in this game because you can be sure Kiely and co will be keeping something back.

But, if Waterford are serious about winning the AI they can't keep playing the same way, every time. They thought they could get joy out of the two new full backs of Tipp, by keeping three up front and going long at the start. But the team wasn't cut throat enough. It didn't work. They had to go back to how they usually play. That will worry Cahill and Bevans. Being innovative, creative, and cut throat is key to winning all-irelands. I didn't see that at Walsh Park. I've seen it from Limerick a lot. But the year is long yet. But ye better get out the rosary beads for Limerick injuries because I think ye'll find Limerick too much in the all-ireland series. Now is the time to possibly catch em on the hop early and build something to believe in for next year.

Asdfgh2020

Would abandoning all these modern day ‘systems’ , zonal set ups, sweepers etc and going back to full conventional one on one ‘man marking’ be worth a try….?

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959050#Comment_118959050

Maybe for about 20 mins you’d confuse the hell out of the opposition but that’s about as far as you’d get

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959033#Comment_118959033

To be fair Cahill and Beavans have had 2 years to think about ways to counteract Limerick at this stage. there’s no excuses anymore particularly with injured players back like De Burca and Iarlaith Daly who missed last year and Pauric Mahony aswell who isn’t getting in the team anyway.

I agree with you about not showing your full hand but at the same time Waterford really have to go after Limerick on Saturday. As said already on this page another 11 point defeat would be ominous not just for Waterford but for everyone else too. It’s in Limericks backyard which is always worth a couple points to them and I think that might just swing it for them. but with Hayes out now Waterford should really be getting at least within a couple of points of Limerick to show there’s any chance of beating them later in the championship

Montys return

Fellas writing off the championship after one game. The hurlers on the ditch will never change anyway.

carq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959033#Comment_118959033

Agree to a certain extent but what options do you have?

You either go:

1) Short + try and work it out

2) Short + then long

3) Go long

None of the 3 look too enticing against limerick.

Option 1 - didnt work too well against Tipp, maybe some rustiness on show, unlikely to go well against limerick on past experience.

Option 2 also didnt work well against tipp but could be an option if we pack that part of the field with players.

Option 3- Could get cleaned out here if we try this.

I think best chance of success as giveitfong said is to disrupt the limerick puckout.

You could see from the stills last week Cork committing 4 men to mark the limerick puckout but all were 5-10 yards behind their men.

Our half back line is perhaps our strongest so maybe some trust has to be there for them to come out 50/50 on their own ball if limerick go long, midfielders dropping back to help with breaking ball.

TheScoringGoal

Have Limerick sent out their official traffic plan yet? I see Na Piarsaigh are open for parking for €5 a car but normally there's an official announcement. They tried a park and ride a few years ago but it was a disaster. No bus appeared, instead a woman came running across from the Munster GAA offices. Through word of mouth everyone found out that there wasn't going to be a bus and to get a refund.

PTH2009

Unchanged team

https://twitter.com/WaterfordGAA/status/1517489778987569158?t=cLUIEW24yS53B-qPefgSFQ&s=19

Ballyvoile Boy

If Kyle Hayes is out, then it evens up the odds a bit for tomorrow night. I still think Limerick have the edge, but if Waterford click together on the night, it could just happen for us. There should be a good lot to learn from tomorrow night's game anyway, as to where Waterford are tactically v the brains of Limerick management. Hurling-wise & in the physicality/skill/speed stakes, I do not think there is much between the teams, but the first half v Tipp has shown up an in-game tactical weakness. If the management can get this aspect of the game right, there is potential for an AI.

Regarding puckouts, there has been a lot of talk about short puckouts, long puckouts etc. The reality is that having a puckout strategy is not like a set piece of play, it is a mentality & it is a whole team approach. It requires everyone from 2-12 (& even the FF line can play a role) to have the freedom, creativity & athleticism to create movement at precisely the right time to give the goalie options. Having that strategy starts with management allowing the players the freedom to make the runs & allowing for a mistake to happen occasionally. Madness is continuously repeating the same thing over & over again & expecting the same results & this is what has been happening with Waterford puckouts - everyone planted in their home spot, no one moving at the exact second the keeper is ready to hit the ball out.

For example, if a half forward were to push up almost to the opposition 20 metre line & then when the goalie is ready to puck out, the other 2 half forwards start moving (fast) to create a space & the half forward runs into the space from the 20 metre line, opportunities to win a long puckout can be created. It will not work every time & you still need plenty of short ones to vary it, but if you can create confusion in a way that is expected by your own team, then you can reap the rewards. Conservatism is perhaps the biggest enemy Waterford has, as management & co. board alike seem afraid to offend the 'traditionalists'. The reality is that Liam Cahill is building on something that started years ago with Derek McGrath & perhaps even before that with Davy Fitzgerald (to a degree), whereby Waterford learned to be more organised in defence. Cahill & Beavens have been developing the attacking mentality of the team since they came in & it is working. If they can go the extra step & make Waterford a tactically astute & versatile team (reacting in game time & even creating real time headaches for oppositions), then an AI is available. The panel is already there & just needs fine tuning.

Montys return

I think with a lot of lads returning from injury and going down to Limerick it's a big ask to win to be honest. They'll hype this game up to the last but there'll be much bigger games ahead for both teams in reality. Even if Waterford won they could still be knocked out in Munster so the reality is the last two games are far more important.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961129#Comment_118961129

A worry is that Cahill and Beavens only agreed an extra year and both could go at the end of this year take a year or 2 out before the Tipp job becomes available

Who the hell could we get in ?

Ballyvoile Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961166#Comment_118961166

We have the right management & players to win an AI in 2022 (no easy feat, but possible). They will however need to up their game on the tactics front. Everything else is already there to be honest & Cahill is a brilliant motivator. I would nearly have Beavens up high in the stand for matches, as he seems to be the only tactical brain of the operation currently. There will be plenty of time after July to worry about who is in charge of the team in 2023, bigger fish to fry right now.

KevIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961166#Comment_118961166

Give it a rest ffs

carq

Strange Gleeson not starting .

Would have though his ball winning ability would be needed against limerick.

Deskjockey

I don't get it. Aussie didn't look injured the last day. Why would he not start?

TheScoringGoal

I've no inside line but I wonder is the team that takes the pitch going to differ from the one in the programme.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I'm calling dummy team and Austin will start. It makes no sense not to start him based on form and the obvious impact he made last week. It's also a big ask for young Daly in against that Limericak midfield, as good as he is for his age.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961063#Comment_118961063

That is 100% the correct team to play. They will find out loads about a number of lads without Gleeson and Barron for Limerick to focus on or giving the total game away. A lot of lads will grow through the hard medicine of playing Limerick away from home. The most important focus for Waterford at this stage is to figure out, not a way, but ways to get goals.

Focusing on Limerick's puck out... won't work. If you do disrupt their puck out, right, and get the ball back, you're stuck in trench warfare. Limerick set up with 8 in the backs and the wing forwards back and Lynch will drift back on occasion too. Waterford won't run through that. Turnovers around the field is king in the modern game. Limerick are experts at it. Waterford have to set traps for Limerick to run into, to get the turnovers - with at least Limerick's wing forwards and midfielders dragged up the field a bit.

Waterford have to focus on running off the ball - and weighted, deliveries into space to run onto. But do Waterford have the players to deliver such passes to find space in packed areas? Hopefully we'll find out. Cahill and Bevans tend to focus on direct running, breaking the tackle. It doesn't work against Limerick. Because not only do they pack areas, they're the biggest team around.

They could try old school bombs down on Gleeson late in the game - with Bennett and Baron trying to hoover up any breaks or passing coming off Gleeson. Gleeson is strong enough to lay off ball against anyone. Easier said than done against Limerick as we all know.

KevIRL

I would say at least 2 (if not all 3) of gleeson, Barron and iarlaith Daly start this game

waterfordgirl

According to WLR its the same starting team as last weekend for tomorrow nights game

Montys return

Daly got 10 mins the last day so I'd be surprised if he starts 6 days later.

Would Gleeson and Barron have come on at half time if Waterford weren't in trouble? There's a bigger picture to think about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962043#Comment_118962043

JeffKenna

No point showing our strongest hand starting Gleeson and Barron. Will more than likely be playing Limerick again so that's the time we need to beat them, not tomorrow.