Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

garv123

2 lads getting a yellow card each for a bit of a tussle where no hurley or punches were thrown is ridicilious. The games gone worse than soccer. Players are just targeting lads on yellows these days knowing they'll get 1 each for handbags.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069414#Comment_119069414

Barry Coughlan got the same treatment when he played for Waterford and because of it he got labelled as a dirty player. 30 seconds into the All Ireland final in 2017 Johnny Glynn went in straightaway and just leathered into him. Same thing when Joe Canning just wrestled him to the ground and Coughlan got a yellow and Canning got away with it.

Don’t forget umpires are just average joe soaps. They’re clubmen and all have jobs so they’re up in the club or sitting in work listening to other supports saying such and such a player is only a thug or whatever nonsense and then that’s going to feed into the mind of an umpire on a Sunday. It has to because it’s human nature. No amateur is going to be totally impartial even though if they’re in that position and are umpiring games they should be.

I’ve never seen an umpire side with a player who has been wronged in a game either at club level or inter county if that player has a bit of a reputation i.e Gleeson, Mullane, Coughlan and I’m only referencing Waterford players because they’re the players I naturally think of.

Dammo

Who was the last genuinely dirty player to play for us?

Gardner

Can we get rid of your wan on the microphone as well. It's like reading out the death notices on WLR.

TheScoringGoal

I think we made mistake taking Daly off at half time. His skill level let him down with two shots but he was one of the few that seemed to be moving at pace. Twice during the first half he went seating through the middle but the Waterford player in possession didn't see him. Once Daly went off Cork seemed to take over midfield.

deise man

In the league semi final and final our backs recieved puck outs in acres of space a built from there. Since then teams have copped on to push up on our puck outs and force us to go long. Our half forward line wins very few long puck outs and that in turn put the whole team under pressure. Perhaps j fagan should have been moved up to the half forward line yesterday.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069313#Comment_119069313

Hate those 'Cork scored 1-6 from Waterford puckout' stats

There's so many variables involved that there's no contet behind the stat (unless it literally lands in the hands of a Cork player and they hit it straight over)

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069601#Comment_119069601

I genuinely can’t remember any in the last 25 or 30 years. We’ve had hard men like Ken, Hartley, Dan and Seamus and before them Sean Cullinane and Peter Queally etc. none of them could be considered dirty hurlers. Hard men - absolutely. But dirty, absolutely not.

Waterford, to my knowledge was never a county that produced hurlers like that anyway. We always produced players that were hard and fair. Maybe a criticism of some of our players over the years was that they were too nice if anything.

puzl

That's what every county says.

The truth is there's a reason players can be targeted. Look at Diarmuid Byrnes yesterday - completely calm and unphased at the clown show around him. Clare players trying to get in his face all day and he didn't even miss a beat. That's not to say he's afraid to give it in a fair tackle, but you won't find him responding in the same way you'll see Gillane or Gleeson.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Does anyone think we'll somehow get that 3rd spot? I know there's still a chance but even if we do beat Clare, I would fancy Cork to beat Tipp.

Only hope we have now is that Clare gave so much yesterday that they're a bit flat next week and also rest a few lads. Then we need Cork to follow their trend of unpredictability and follow a good performance with a not so good one and lose but only by a bare minimum.

Not great really is it?! In my head the year is over but I guess stranger things have happened. Either way, I would hope we'll put in a great performance and win down in Ennis and see what happens from there.

JD. 60

Is it just me but has the sideline on the the stand side been moved in about 2 metres (couldn't see the other sideline close up), making the width even narrower than the official dimension. However, the pitch size is the same for both teams.

Anyway lads, I think the game is up as far as this year is concerned. Yesterday's win has reignited Cork and I just can't them screwing up next Sunday.

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119068802#Comment_119068802

I don't buy the ground doesn't suit,Cork beat us with a fast team .did it suit them?

upthedeise16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069676#Comment_119069676

Simple but perfect analysis. We couldn’t win primary possession from long puckouts. I was in the west terrace and from O’Briens views, he had very little option but to try 60:40 short puckouts which the majority worked out except when Lehane intercepted and long 50:50 puckouts to static forwards. Curran seemed to occupy the left wing while Aussie and Stephen Bennett were on the right wing and Cork won the majority of these puckouts either cleanly or the breaks. Walsh Park is very tight for short puckouts as players seem to be under pressure almost straight away when they get possession.

There didn’t seem to be a Plan C (Plan A-short Plan B-on top of the wing forward) I would love to have seen Kiely come out for a few puckouts as a 4th half forwards, if it’s won, it left acres of space for Dessie inside as Prendergast was out around the middle to try and pounce on breaks.

We never tried to overload one side and leave space for Kiely or Dessie to run out on the opposite for puckouts either, particularly in the 2nd half when O’Briens puckout could reach the Cork 21. Gillane is excellent at this for Limerick and in the tight confines of Walsh Park, it could work well and if Cork had stayed zonal, O’Brien could have put the ball on top of the overloaded side and Waterford would have had a numerical advantage.

To be fair to management, this was Corks first time all year pushing up man to man and they possibly had alternative plans that were scuppered by this.

Just to comment on 2 other topics, people are wearing blue tinted glasses when it comes to Waterford’s discipline. After watching the Sunday Game and a clear replay, Aussie deserved the 2nd yellow and was silly to get involved when already booked. He received treatment all game but has to rise above it as he was sent off (harshly but did pull back) for reacting against Wexford. In terms of players getting sent off, Pauric Mahony pulled a filthy stroke in 2019 against Limerick, Conor Gleeson was sent off the same year deservedly so against Tipp in Thurles but harshly against Galway last year, Mullane, Kelly & Eoin McGrath were all sent off in the 2000’s in matches deservedly, Aussie was blessed not to miss an All-Ireland for pulling an opponents helmet and Stephen Bennett received a ban the same year for pulling Damien Cahalanes helmet off. Waterford are tough as anyone but don’t fool yourselves into thinking that Waterford are angels. I’m not bashing Waterfords discipline, just trying to give an honest perspective.

I don’t think Waterford played well yesterday but honestly believe that the frees missed were key to the defeat. They sucked the life and momentum away at key stages and dampened the crowds support. Bennett has had 2 bad days on them now so perhaps a change to Curran might be a positive move for Ennis.

KevIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069839#Comment_119069839

Not a chance we get third imo.

Just on your post though. If we win and tipp win by even 50 points, we would be in third. The margin of tipp win only matters if we lose

All a bit academic though, cork will win. The team with something to play for always beats the team that is out (or in this case, 99% of the way to being out)

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069734#Comment_119069734

Challenge accepted. Who was the lad who broke a hurley over Nickie English's back? 🤣🤣 Damien Byrne?

I've seen Eoin Kelly pull some really nasty strokes.

thesultan

Lads yee need to open up yer eyes here. Off the ball stuff,like holding shouldering and blocking.. it's all part of marking..aussie answered all of this by letting his hurling talk.he got carded then don't think he should have gotten a second one.

blueflame

Still trying to come to terms with the total lack of drive and intensity yesterday, both on the pitch and in the stands, there appeared to be a nervousness that spread like wildfire through the team and the stadium

I have to say i was disappointed with the support and the atmosphere yesterday not for the first time this year, and would make the following observations:

1. I heard noting all week but complaints about the shortage of tickets, yet there appeared to be plenty of empty seats in the stand yesterday and no shortage of terrace tickets at the end of the week - yet if it was a Munster Final tomorrow many genuine supporters would be struggling for tickets - it is infuriating to say the least.
2. The ground itself as it stands is a dustbowl, and probably because of Health & Safety , the banks in particular were really sparsely populated (mind you refer to my previous comment re ticket sales) it looked at times like Social Distancing was still in operation Compare that to Ennis yesterday, where they were packed in like sardines, where it it was easy to create an atmosphere.
3. There was a small group of us on the North Bank yesterday and we tried our hardest (as we did in Limerick) to raise numerous chants, but not a hope, - it just faded into the clouds. The difference was that the shouts coming from the Cork Support came from the stand where they seemed to populate the majority of seats , reverberated because of the cover. To create a cauldron effect you need reasonably steep terraces, and cover is essential. not only to provide shelter but to provide an amplifying effect also - County Board please take note when they finally start work on Walsh Park.
4. Is the pitch too small - Cork did not seem to have problem finding acres of space yesterday , but if it is an issue, now is the time when rebuilding Walsh Park to tackle that. Widen and lengthen the pitch by 5 meters, and forget seating the North Terrace and the proposed "picnic area" behind the town goal - turn both of them into properly covered terracing such as in Ennis, or the town end in Nolan Park or Parc-ui-Rinn - you do not need big fancy high roofs giving rise to objections, and costs, but you can create a cauldron effect. by doing this and putting a good high terrace on the Keane's Road end also This will also put an end to the notion of a tight pitch not suiting us, particularly as we train more often than not in WIT!!! We have seen how knowledge and good practice has turned the surface of Walsh Park from a bog into a Carpet, this can surely be done with the Banks also
5. Finally it is noticeable in all the other four venues, the wall of sound that is created by gatherings of young lads behind their preferred goal, and while these lads often come in for criticism, they do tend to lend real vocal support to teams We certainly seem to have lost this element of support, possibly because of the venue or is it because the Clubs are no longer as organised or vocal in their support of the county. Looking at our East and West terraces yesterday, they looked more like a sponge than a wall - and how can we address this - Club Deise is a fine and worthy organisation when it comes to raising funds but is it a "supporters club" that can create an atmosphere at grounds, by organizing groups and tickets together to create a real atmosphere. Do we need a proper Hurling Supporters Club?

Yesterday was a disaster, no doubt about it, but while the odds are stacked against us of going any further this year, we need to learn from the mistakes both on and off the field. I still believe that this panel is the strongest panel we have had for many years, they did not become a bad side overnight. It is also a panel young enough to be capable of truly challenging for an All Ireland over the next 5 years , it is not as if we are going to loose 3 or four guys to retirement imminently and we have some really good young players coming through. Mark Fitzgerald and Cathrac Daly will benefit from this year and you still have the likes of the Paddy Leavy, and the younger Mahoney's and some of the U-20s to step up to supplement what is already a strong panel. Is Liam Cahill the man to take us to the next step - that remains to be seen, and whether or not he has the appetite to do so. One thing for sure is that the next appointment must be forward thinking and not backward thinking

The most important thing from yesterday is we need to learn from our mistakes and failings on and of the field - we need to look to improve these issues and stop looking for excuses.

On a finishing note, our group of supporters who trvel wherever we can, are already committed to travelling to Ennis next weekend, and if it ends there, we will please God, start again next year - this is not just our Club - this is our County and that should mean something - i would only ask that all other supporters ( and i do not mean Keyboard Warriors or Trolls) continue to support the team in their drive for change and improvement.

evolvingtipperary101

Oh wait, I found it. 17 minutes and 50 seconds into this. Two players actually flake English and the lad who committed the worse swipe, got away with it🤣 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i1v9mo7rwk&ab_channel=TallowmanGAA

thesultan

Put on the 89 Munster final..

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069977#Comment_119069977

The belt Colm Bonner gets is far worse

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070013#Comment_119070013

The game has come a long way... 😂

carter10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069971#Comment_119069971

Pat Ryan

carter10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070048#Comment_119070048

The 1989 Munster Final- the first Munster final to be shown live. Damien Byrne and Noel Crowley both got 6 month suspensions after it

Waterford had beaten Cork in a replay to get to the final. ( Cork won the AI the following year) and there was great excitement in Waterford about it but like yesterday and many many times since they didn't turn up when the pressure came on.

1998, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2011, 2017, 2022

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069977#Comment_119069977

Looked like English picked the ball clean off the ground - it is this inconsistent reffing that is the bane of the players :-)

Not much wrong with English anyway, was well able to take the free and put it over the bar

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069976#Comment_119069976

Think club deise needs to be completely revamped . This years effort was poor it was very late to be launched and when it was you got basically nothing in turn for your sub , the much loved car sticker was scrapped , the discount offerings from companies that they have on board while welcome are a poor offering surely we can do better then 5% of a tyre etc . One of the games club deise named the team about 4 hours after press . We need a new fund raising supporters club ,you should see the prizes the Tipperary monthly draws hand out . We need to be doing way better in getting more people on board with a well structured supporters club with proper club merchandise.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069971#Comment_119069971

1989? Would you come off it, some of the stuff that went on in most if not all teams in the 1980s in both hurling and football would warrant jail time if it happened now.

I did say 25-30 years that I can remember, which is modern day hurling. Tommy Walsh, John Carroll, Ollie Baker and Colin Lynch are players that spring to mind when I say dirty players in the modern era.

Someone else mentioned Eoin Kelly. Kelly was sent off once for Waterford in a league game against Clare, that’s the only red I can remember him getting for Waterford unless I’m mistaken. He got a sun bin or whatever you call it one day in Walsh Park after Tommy Walsh tried to talk the elbow off him with a terrible stroke. Kelly was a hard player and played on the edge at all times but I wouldn’t class him as a dirty player at all.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070091#Comment_119070091

He was well used to it.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070119#Comment_119070119

John Carroll was not dirty. A big softie.

Did you ever see Kelly's pull on Eddie Enright. How he stayed on the pitch...

Deisegodeo

Whatever about whether Walsh park suits our current style or not, it certainly doesn't explain the flat performance, the lack of energy and movement was so disappointing to see. Cork bullied us and wanted it more, it's juat hard to understand how we could be so poor in such a big game for us.

spideyman92

I think it kinda does have an influence on the flat performance. On a pitch like Thurles, the spaces would have opened up more throughout the game which they didn't in WP. Constantly turning and running into people just zaps the energy out which Cork were able to take advantage of more by swarming our lads. Just have less time to regroup and get your bearings in the middle of the match. If the Limerick fixture had been in WP, I think we would have been annihalated by them with how they close ya down. Maybe we're a little one dimensional though too.