Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

Asdfgh2020

It’s absolutely amazing that none of the last ‘golden crop’ of players such as Flynn, K McGrath, Browne, Mullane, M Walsh etc have never got involved with the county team…….or do they know better and don’t see the any potential there….?

JD. 60

Back from Thurles. Wasn't really expecting a win but that match was the pits.

Anyone directing blame at Aussie is an imbecile.

I hope to wake up some morning soon and hear that the County Board and Davy have parted ways, by mutual consent.

It's going to take a number of years for Waterford hurling to be competitive again, by which point most of the current panel will have moved on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593570#Comment_120593570

I am 'from the outside looking in'. To be honest I dont take any pleasure in where Waterford is at present and would like to see them compete in the near future. Obviously, i dont want to see them succeed at the expense of my own county, but i wish them well.

Tramore84

The County Board surely have to take a large portion of the blame here:-

1) they have not promoted our games properly, there is a lack of underage talent coming through, our underage structures are not producing enough high-level talent. A high population town like Tramore should be producing senior footballers and hurlers....why is this still not happening?

2) the 13-16 AI winners have not been pushed by new players coming through, again, it looks like this was a 'by chance' generation of players, not the product of any planning or structures put in place by the C Board

No competitive wins at minor or u20 this yr, hurling and football? (except for London in football league?). Scary numbers they are....

3) the same people are operating at C Board level every yr, is this because they have it all wrapped up for themselves, or is there really no one else willing to put in the time and effort?

4) the appointment of Davy the second time round looks like it could be a complete disaster...it looks like Davy has been left behind coaching and tactics wise. Why were we hitting the same crazy cross field balls this evening.....?. it looks like we have stagnated across all areas, on pitch and off the pitch.......

5) the decision to commence refurb of Walsh park at the same time as Munster championship was always going to put us under even more pressure this yr.....so why was that decision taken and who had control over this....

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593549#Comment_120593549

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592172#Comment_120592172

Is he not supposed to be part of Davy's team??

I think this doesn't show much team spirit, if he's decided to head of to a Rugby match instead of sticking with the team, in a must-win game, irrespective if he has no official part to play on match day itself. Just doesn't look good or set a good example.

Waterfordgirl, maybe you can check out what Donnacha doing during the next match, as it might be more interesting I guess...

upthedeise16

I agree that players have to take some blame but having been there tonight, I can’t but give the majority of the blame to management.

I think you would have had to been there to see it but defenders getting the ball, looking up the pitch and seeing no forwards was unfortunately a common occurrence. I had great optimism at the start of the year to see a full forward line of Dessie, Kiely and Bennett inside the 45 but alas, that wasn’t in the tactical plan.

Waterford went man marking so player like Darragh Lyons, Neil Montgomery and Jack Prendergast in the full back line at different stages, pure madness.

There are talks that Davy has all these puckout strategies but none seem to involve creating space for players to collect puckouts at eye level or bouncing into them. Today, we seen high, long puckouts landed on Waterford players in the half forward line and at times, landed on players who are 6 inches smaller than their markers, non-sensical. Then they go short and have nothing inside cos the forwards have crowded the middle third with no one left inside and if they are, John Conlan effectively swept in front or the forward won the ball and was met with Clare tacklers behind and approaching them so we’re basically bottled up.

I’m disillusioned with it all but I do lay a lot of blame with management. This time last year, Tipp were in the exact same position as Waterford were but with an obvious conveyer belt of talent and a man ready to set in with Cahill. Their county board was brave and took criticism (some of it justified for their methods) but now, they have the right manager in place and in a short 12 months, are in a totally different position. Our players look flat, short on confidence, lost in a system but they’re not bad hurlers.

I know what I would like to see happening.

Deskjockey

DAVY OUT.

NOBODY IN WATERFORD WANTS HIM

ANOTHER YEAR WITH DAVY AND HIS ABSOLUTE BULLS@@% IS A YEAR WASTED.

DiscoStew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593813#Comment_120593813

Tony Browne was literally in the management team last year.

Ken was selector previously also.

Flynn was a selector or coach for the U21’s in 2016 I believe. He’s also on Sean Power’s management ticket for Waterford camogie currently.

windy shepard henderson

hard luck today lads , when the game was 15 v 15 it was a competitive game , but i dont blame davey , i dont blame the players , the county board need to be held accountable here , ballygunner won 3 grades of hurling last year junior, inter and senior and yet only 3 ballygunner players featured today one coming off the bench

if a club is that big its time for clubs to amalgamate or create a few divisional teams to counter act that and get the best out of the players from the smaller clubs

also instead of mouthing in the media how many of them ex players are currently involved in the underage set ups , at the moment several ex players in clare are involved in our underage developments at the moment especially the minor team which won munster last week

we were in a worse position in 2009 and 2010 in division 2 in the league losing to down and carlow , but got out of jail with a generational team from the under age ranks ,noel conners was right in his examiner column a few weeks ago , if changes are not made in waterford ye are in danger of worse days , and nobody wants that ,

evolvingtipperary101

I was looking at the Celtic Challenge results today. And it suddenly struck me that I can't find Waterford anywhere.... Waterford don't have a team in it... Cork have three teams in it. That's scandalous from the county board.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594600#Comment_120594600

can you expand on what it is….?

5948ai

That's it done now. 10 years plus of mediocrity and hammerings await. At least the back door afforded the opportunity of a regroup against a possible equal or lesser team in Leinster. We don't even get that anymore with the round robbin.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594616#Comment_120594616

My take is, that basically, it's for players who are very talented but who don't make the minor grade for inter county but it's a chance to get them games and develop players so that down the line they might make the leap to the next level. This is how the GAA put it on their website:

The Electric Ireland Celtic Challenge was established in 2016 and has been hugely successful since its inception. The ethos is a developmental one with teams initially competing at group stages. Depending then on results teams are graded for the knockout stages giving all an opportunity to compete at their own level. The inclusion of second and even third teams from Tier 1 counties has proven very successful as it can result in teams from for example, Christy Ring counties playing teams from Liam McCarthy counties in a final. These are opportunities that players otherwise would not experience.

The Electric Ireland Celtic Challenge is named in recognition of the original juvenile hurling club known as ‘Celtic’. The Divisional trophies are named in memory of 6 of the 14 civilians who were shot dead in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday, 21st November 1920. Michael Hogan [aged 24], Tom Hogan [aged 21], John William Scott [aged 14], William Robinson [aged 11], Jerome O’Leary aged 10] and Michael Feery, who was buried in a common grave.

We are delighted that the 2023 Electric Ireland Celtic Challenge will have 38 teams from 30 counties taking part.

The competition starts on Saturday 8th April and all teams will qualify for a Quarter-Final spot on Saturday 6th May.

Winners will then advance to their respective Semi-Finals on Saturday 13th May.

Semi-Final winners will play their finals on Saturday 27th May.

PTH2009

Can we be in the Joe McDonagh Cup

Best way for us to get into the All Ireland series

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594633#Comment_120594633

no not unless kerry win it then there would be a play off , i cant ever see it happening

Pudz2180

Well we have finally hit rock bottom. Really don’t know where we go from here. Am in my early forties and have been following Waterford hurling religiously since the eighties. Some of the best days of my life have been through waterford hurling (and some of my lowest). I sat in thurles watching the last few minutes of the game today and taught to myself is this the beginning of the end. Although we were small in numbers there was a nice few Waterford fans around me and they were the same no talking just staring in disbelief maybe thinking the same, we have had some great times over the last thirty odd years following our hurlers but maybe this was the end of that for god knows how long.

This year has been an absolute **** show and I know the players have to take some responsibility but it’s not working with Davy and I hope he’ll do what’s best for everyone and pack it in after the Tipp game.

as far as the long term future of GAA in Waterford if this year’s abysmal record across the board in both hurling and football doesn’t get the county board to act and act now then there’s no hope for us. We know things won’t change overnight and there are a few tough years coming but if action starts now at least there will be some light at the end of what is a very dark tunnel at the moment.

we can never judge ourselves against the bigger counties (cork, Tipp, Galway) but when you look at the likes of Clare (Munster minor winners, in the under 20 final, unlucky to lose last year’s Munster minor final and also very competitive at all age groups in football) and Offaly (won an under 20 football all Ireland a few years ago, should have won an minor hurling all Ireland last year and are in this year’s Leinster under 20 final vs Wexford) there’s no excuse why we can’t be doing what they are doing

Ballyvoile Boy

Davy Fitzgerald is owed a massive thanks by the Waterford hurling public for giving it his best for 2023. Unfortunately his best just has not measured up to what other counties in Munster have been able to deliver this year. I feel that the Waterford team were not too bad in the fitness stakes, but the hurling coaching does not look to have been even nearly up to scratch. I was in Thurles this evening & many players yet again did not seem confident on the ball & this has been the same all year. I would contrast this with the way Michael Bevans had the Waterford hurlers playing in 2020 & 2021 (I saw 2022 as a tactical disaster, rather than a coaching one). For all those hurling purists who just want 'man to man' hurling, well tonight is what it looks like. When you take zonal marking away & just assign everyone a man, you end up with your full back line in midfield & players running over to the management wondering what to do next. You hand the initiative completely to the opposing team & they dictate where all of you defenders go. By the way, lay off Darragh Lyons folks - marking Tony Kelly is a job very few people can do perfectly & he tried his best amidst an out-of-shape team structure.

Davy has been brilliant for the profile of hurling all through his career, has won everything in the game & it will be a pity to see him step away from hurling management, but that time may have arrived (unless he adjusts his management style). The days of the micro-manager are gone. The most successful managers in recent years have been those who could put trust in & give credit to their backroom teams - John Kiely, Liam Sheedy, Jim Gavin, Jack O' Connor, Mícheál O' Donoghue etc. There is literally no point in having a former player like Eoin Kelly involved (who was a genius on the field), unless he is allowed to have an influence on the style of forward play. It seems to me that he has not had enough of an influence to have any impact whatsoever.

I see the reason for the lack of any broad input from selectors & backroom team as being what I suspect to be a stringent style of management. Some people find it very hard to deal with dissent of any kind. An unquestioning structure can centralise decision-making & take the committee aspect out of things (which in some cases can be useful), but does not necessarily increase proficiency, especially if the key decision maker has too narrow a focus. Ego can play a part in this too. The reality of the modern game is that in-game tactics are crucial. Each game changes from minute to minute & a manager that often loses the head or freezes on the sideline is at a disadvantage. We are all familar with the sight of John Kiely consulting with Paul Kinnerk, Liam Cahill consulting with Mikey Bevans etc. By contrast, Davy cuts a lonely figure on the sideline.

With regard to the county board, yes I get frustrated with them too, but anyone who wants to get involved at that level could pretty much walk into a job. Few want to give up so much of their time to man the turnstiles, act as sideline stewards at junior matches, go to meetings, make difficult decisions, get criticised by the public. Being on the inside is a lot more difficult than people are given credit for, whether that is in team management, being a referee or being on the county board. Sure people get frustrated with anyone they perceive as being in a 'job for life', but those are few & far between & criticism can only be effective if coming from a place of knowledge about what actually goes on behind closed doors (where the big decisions get made). So if you have ideas about how to improve things, go to your club AGM, get put on the committee & become a delegate to the county board.

Anyway there is still one match to go & although it is a dead rubber for us, there is an opportunity to give young players a run out & let them try their hand. I am not at all advocating treating the Tipp match as a challenge, but more so that the younger players will not have been as mentally scarred by being on the pitch for the last 2 games. We need to blood new players anyway, so let them at it against Tipp. Davy probably has no intentions of going anywhere, as there is likely nowhere for him to go, but make no mistake, Waterford need a new manager - a quiet, understated manager for 2024. No more side shows.

Micheal O' Donoghue would probably have been a good fit for us this year, but Dublin have him. Waterford still have the players & we have a brilliant hurling coach in the county in Derek McGrath. He should not be a manager in my opinion, as I felt he had the some of the same micro-manging tendencies as Davy, his tactics were a bit too defensive/negative & as a result, he drove many of the fan base around the twist. His coaching is excellent though & players love a good coach. In any event, it is probably too early for the return of Derek (there is still an illogical dislike of the style of the manager that brought us to within 4 points of an AI victory), but he could play a very useful role in the very near future - maybe with an U20 team or such.

Anyway, we need to go back to basics. None of us claim to have all the answers, but the current season is over for us & we need new ideas & new personnel, not just for the senior team. The county board will not want to change horse mid-race, but unless the hurling public make their voices heard, there will be no change for 2024. The current set up has run its course & the board's hand needs to be guided strongly. Thanks to the 2023 management team & best of luck in their future roles after this season finishes, wherever they may be.

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593213#Comment_120593213

It’s not the hope is the issue for me but the lack of fight

the players need to look at themselves but the Buck stops with management. This has been a shambles. Going back to Davy was a massive gamble that hasn’t paid off. I really hope he does the honourable thing and steps aside. There’s no shame it admitting it didn’t, or is not going to work

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593442#Comment_120593442

fair enough i dont know what kind of a person Austin Gleeson is in reality as i have never met him.. and can only base my opinion on what i see of him on a hurling pitch.. and he comes across as a very spoilt child bit like ronaldo... absolutely no doubt he has the talent unbelievable talent.. only time ive seen him putting the team first was when liam cahill was over ye and that didnt last.. the way waterford play couldnt be more opposite to the way ballygunner play where the team comes first... again lads im just giving an opinion as a neutral... and i dont hate waterford.. when waterford are on song the hurling that ye play is absolutely brilliant to watch

decies

You do begin to wonder does the current round robin munster championship just expose our fragility. Yes we know only a few years ago we were the second best team in Ireland but this current set up has just exposed us whatever about our 1/15 the current well is fairly dry after that , with the standard of hurling in Munster we are playing the standard of opposition every second week of a all Ireland quarter final / semi final / all Ireland favourite we just can’t cope with that . The previous system suited us perfect we could get into a semi if we played one good game at least . Now we have to win 2/3 and constantly come short . So going forward the changes in Waterford hurling have to be big and bold a lick of paint won’t do . Make the bloody changes and at least one day how ever long it takes we can be dining at the top table .

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594759#Comment_120594759

Why the **** are you giving massive thanks to the management team? Thanks for what?

Deiselurker

That was a dismal day and it's been a dismal year across the board for Waterford male inter county teams. The low turnout yesterday in Thurles says a lot. The first half was decent but we had no chance once Lyons was sent off. Clare had another gear and took full advantage in the 2nd half. Some bizarre tactics with backs like Conor Prunty charging forward and forwards in the backs. No doubt we'll hear again that we need another year or 2 to perfect these tactics!

supernova5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594683#Comment_120594683

As an outsider your last paragraph there is spot on, just reading an article on yesterdays Irish Times there is a lot of great unseen work going in the development squads in Waterford. It may be very dismal looking at present but your county will come back strong again

Asdfgh2020

Bar Offaly has any other county won an all Ireland with management team/manager not from their own county….? I think the answer is no…..does this say something….?

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594912#Comment_120594912

Think most other managers from whatever county might have got us that Liam McCarthy in that final against Galway . Our best chance ever .

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593691#Comment_120593691

I hope whoever it was was giving Flynn an earful for bringing his old pal Davy back. Shocking decision. Job for the boys at the detriment of Waterford hurling

Dammo

Too much made of the round robin system being the issue. When the whistle blows it’s a championship match irrespective of the qualifying setup.

The current players, like lots of previous ones, appear to be mentally fragile. Great when things are going well but next to useless once the going gets tough. I’ve no idea why but that’s how it looks to me.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593570#Comment_120593570

Speaking of outsiders coming into threads to kick posters when their team is down, your own Motivator is on this forum for many years and is well known for dropping into the threads of certain counties following their defeat to sneer and make disparaging remarks about managers. Hopefully these years of Waterford being a shambles will allow him to learn a bit of class, it's doubtful however

To the genuine Waterford supporters on here, commiserations, no one likes to see a team under perform like this, even if it is for the selfish reason that it leads to non competitive matches like we have seen with Waterford this year. Console yourselves with the fact that when you get your house in order, things can be turned around surprisingly quickly

Asdfgh2020

Mod Edit

Warning issued.

DeHorse88

Eoin Kelly is not setting the world alight as a coach, he’s the coach of the Waterford team who have been abysmal and needs to take responsability also. If Kinnerk is getting all the praise for Clare in 13 what’s the difference with Waterford and Kelly in 23. How can Kelly look at Dessie Hutchinson in the role he’s in and not be kicking up?

As for Waterford the appointment of Davy Fitz was a shambles. Fergal Hartley a recruitment specialist was part of a 3 man committee that hired Davy Fitz, some specialist. If Cahill had stayed with Waterford whatever you say about the players her wouldn’t have gotten the performances that Davy got over the last 2 games. They got caught last year, I genuinely think Cahill would have got them back close to gettting out of Munster anyway.

As for the future for them there at nothing going outside the county they need to sort out their own mess below and get passionate Waterford people involved at the helm. Tony Browne (who the County Board already rejected for Davy Fitz) & Donal O’Rourke are likely candidates for Coaching Roles and Darragh O’Sullivan (Ballygunner) Manager with a backroom team of Ken McGrath would be a popular and likeable ticket.

Waterford need to follow like Tipp last year who cut their losses with Bonnar amid heavy scrutiny. You can’t lose 4 Championship games on the trot and keep your job..simple as.