Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

Jjjjjjjjbarry

After the Tipp game, what do you think will happen? I don’t think Davy is the type to give up. What will the county board do?

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601309#Comment_120601309

Davy is talking like a manager who wants to be bought out of a contract. Already talking about off-season prep. Ken McGrath lumped on the pressure to get him out today.

https://twitter.com/damienwlr/status/1658100038520696836?s=20

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601309#Comment_120601309

He could ride out the storm in Clare for a while. No safety net down in Waterford.

His position is untenable now no matter what.

ForestFire

https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1656637232772464640?s=20

Davey is up in Antrim as a (Paid?) guest speaker the day before our crunch match, Donnacha is up to Avia to watch his old mates in a rugby game and a Paid gig on RTE to say a few words.....

Who was preparing the team the day before....seems like they were abandoned!!

This management team should be out as soon as possible and are not there to improve Waterford in anyway....

Jjjjjjjjbarry

That does not look good for Davy.

evolvingtipperary101

Gravy train. Already lining up the next job

Cake Man

The big problem with the Davy situation is that he was primarily brought in with it being in mind that his teams usually always exhibit a big performing first year ("the first year bounce") and that big first year would hopefully be enough to push us over the AI line. It was said what we needed was someone that could get the most out of this group of players given many should be in their prime but not having much longer to give (as opposed to an appointment that was more focussed on a big rebuilding job). I remember it being spoken about on here around last Oct/Nov when the appointment was made.

Unfortunately it simply hasn't worked out and the worrying part is Davy's teams usually deliver diminishing returns year on year after the first year (hard to imagine how things could possibly diminish further from this year...). Unless this stint is a break from the mould and the team gets better with each year but it's hard to see that, notwithstanding whether Davy would even get the opportunity to see a second or third year.

Would be interesting to see what the players would want to see happen. Not that they've covered themselves in any glory or should be any position to dictate things but if the majority have no faith in the incumbent management team then it's pointless persisting with Davy as it will only be to the detriment of Waterford hurling. The thoughts of next year and even the year after already being a write off are unbelievably depressing.

Ropaire

As much as I want to see Waterford do well, I think I'll bring the kids off to watch the Tipp vs Limerick game this weekend instead of the last Waterford game and that'll do me for the year. I'd rather they watch a decent game with 2 teams trying to win the right way over whatever puke hurling Davy sends us out to play against Tipp in the last round. Fat chance of the next generation getting motivated to tog out watching this bollox like!

PTH2009

Anyone know what the group huddle bowing thing is about ?

Ropaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602011#Comment_120602011

It's a stretch, I've never seen someone stand in the middle of that stretch before but I wouldn't read much into it really. Especially after watching the mess that unfolded afterwards.

Asdfgh2020

The current situation is bad, however there have been similar if not lower lows in the past a few examples being…

1. The ‘82 and ‘83 Munster final hammerings by cork
2. loosing a league match to mayo in 85/86
3. the 1989 Munster final where they tried to ‘rough up’ Tipperary and ended up with 13 men and hammered on the score board,
4. loosing to Kerry in 1993 having gotten to an all Ireland minor final and winning an u21 the previous year
5. In 1995 there was a bad beating from Tipp which included a melee and a number of red cards and suspensions.
6. 2008 v kk in final - total flop and annihilation on score board.
7. The 2011 hammering from Tipp in the Munster final 7-19 to 0-19. Lar Corbett tan riot and a poor lad full back made his debut and I don’t think ever played inter county again.

Amazingly we did recover from all the above (eventually) but was that down to good fortune/luck rather than any county board intervention….Is an Offaly type terminal decline now just inevitable…?

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602044#Comment_120602044

Look you are conveniently forgetting two things here they shat the bed two seasons in a row here and we are now in a bloody round robin championship with most of the best teams in Ireland ,that basically lays bare the fragility of the complete set up of Waterford hurling . So the solution to all this is going to be harder and most likely take a lot longer then any once off drubbing. Does anybody really think there’s a easy solution here ditch Davy ( which may well be the right thing to do ) get in some local a team and all will be good . I know you have to start somewhere but this all has to start from the bottom up ? Does anybody really think things are going to be any different in the next few years ? Does anybody think like we should have got last year a complete clearing of the air from Waterford Gaa and the players ? With the new stadium taking shape the timing couldn’t be worse .

DiscoStew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120598142#Comment_120598142

Whatever about Molumphy, I agree that it’s the overall managerial set up that is most important rather than just the manager. Too often we focus on big name managerial appointments. The manager needs to coordinate the people working under him & have excellent interpersonal skills. The coach(es) & S&C personal are absolutely vital.

Kelly had very limited experience coaching. Queally has a good record with teams in the Waterford club championship but probably seen as more manager than coach (open to correction on that one). That left Davy to do a lot of coaching which I think he likes to do. Am I right in saying our S&C coach had previously worked with the Wexford footballers? Maybe he is an up & coming S&C coach, I couldn’t say, but looking at the team it certainly seems we are way off it here.

Franks is involved with the Wexford U20’s this year. Hopefully this isn’t the beginning of him throwing his lot in with them. It would be an awful shame if we couldn’t get him involved with our senior set up. Maybe he is too aware of some of the issues within the county to ever bother with it. Franks as coach in with any of Darragh O’Sullivan, Sean Power, Stephen Molumphy wouldn’t be a bad setup. The coach is absolutely vital. Darragh probably gets everything he needs at Ballygunner so may not be interested in moving to intercounty & having to battle for resources & such. Stephen is still inexperienced at this level but at some stage you have to take the gamble on a young manager & if we are doing that it’s better to do it on one of our own.

In my opinion, the board needs to really step up when it comes to S&C. This shyte of asking interns to be the main S&C coaches for our development squads is a joke. We should have a number of fully qualified S&C coaches employed by the board going into schools, working with the development squads & adult intercounty teams. Interns to work under them would be fine. We should also be trying to encourage people to get involved in S&C courses, even funding them with a commitment to work with development squads under the paid main S&C coaches. I’d love to see clubs having access to these coaches also, but they can probably only stretch so far.

blueflame

First things first, Davy quite simply has to go - for me even his interviews since last Saturday have been nothing but petulant and childish, - all about preserving his own position - he is a "ring master" and his circus needs to move on, and the sooner the better - for me get a temporary manager in for the last game - let if necessary let Eoin Kelly (Tipp) take charge, he know the players and he we might just see how much actual input he had into the team, and we can move on from there. It should not be left to the players, it is time for the County Board to stand up and show a bit of metal.

In terms of where we go after the Tipp game it is about:

• getting in a proper Management team at the top, and that includes proper a proper sports psychologist to look after all county teams, and focus on dealing with this perceived fragility.
• Look at putting together a panel of talented and interested people who want to get involved in coaching and look to develop a series of coaching / management teams who will work together with a common purpose and goal for our underage structures for the years to come.
• secure the services of a proper strength and conditioning coach, to oversee a team of S & C Coaches who will work down through the age grades,
• build or acquire proper Gym Facilities in Waterford and Dungarvan owned by the county board to cater for all teams - stop wasting money on public gyms.
• Start to look seriously at developing a proper Centre of Excellence in mid county - could we look at developing Fraher Field as the center of excellence there is a full size floodlit pitch and and huge expanse of area at the back of the stand that could accommodate a full size Astro Turf plus more - there are rooms under the stand that could be converted to gym facilities - if this doesn't work look for a large green field site some where mid county (near Dungarvan to be fair to all payers and teams in terms of travel) and develop a tailor made center. One would imagine we are spending a fortune renting out SETU Arena which we will never own
• To do this we need investment, but if we want to attract investment and players, we need to be professional in our approach and planning - like it or not Ballygunner Club is run far more professionally and efficiently than our County Board, ( if i am honest i would say a good portion clubs in Waterford are run more professionally than the County Board, but in fairness they have not exactly set the bar very high) The time has come to start working and operating as a professional organisation and if the current board (particularly the full time paid officers) do not step up to the plate and start performing professionally they step aside. Waterford needs someone to take brave and decisive action - maybe i am totally off the mark on the above and I am speaking through my a...r , venting in anger but can we see someone taking positive steps forward..

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601635#Comment_120601635

ah would you give over. I’m not happy with things under Davy as much as the next man but what has the above got to do with anything? Davys day job is effectively a high profile media/tv personality the same way as John Kiely is a schoolteacher in Tipp town. We’ve known that before he took the job on and I don’t think it bothered people what he did if we were winning games.

As for the Donncha o’Callaghan thing, Davy needs to clarify what exactly his role with the team is or even if he is still involved with them? but that whole circus needs to be put to be bed

Jjjjjjjjbarry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601908#Comment_120601908

This is the biggest worry. He's always had a Mourinho effect and gets a total buy in and great work ethic from the players (initially). If that's not there, it's already over.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602231#Comment_120602231

Was O'Callaghan contractually obliged to be in Thurles the other evening? Maybe his involvement with the squad has already come to an end and it would seem unlikely he has any selectorial say in the team.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I don’t have the answer but just wondering… Are the comparisons to Offaly a bit OTT or warranted? Realistically, we need 2-3 good players every year. Mikey Kiely and Paddy Leavy came from a bad minor team.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604372#Comment_120604372

I would agree to a certain extent. Calm lyons is another one that came from an average minor/u 20 squad…?

TheScoringGoal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604926#Comment_120604926

Kiely came from the 2018 minor team. That team won 2 out of 4 games, all away from home and played on consecutive weeks. Our best minor team since 2014.

Lyons was a sub on the 2018 under 21 team. That team had Nolan, Prunty, Darragh Lyons, Peter Hogan and Jack Prendergast. Iarla Daly was another sub. It certainly wasn't a weak team.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I think the Tipp minors had them beat and made the mistake off emptying the bench too early and taking all their best players off.

TheScoringGoal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605074#Comment_120605074

I see the argument but none of the players Tipp took off have come through. I'd suggest moving Kiely to full forward and not giving away any more shocking goals turned that game. We came from 12 down so I wouldn't knock that team.

Hopontop

I know Davy will get a lot of the blame and maybe rightly so for the current year but I’d be worried about what’s coming through from underage. You look at other counties and even other sports the production line comes from schools (predominantly secondary schools). How many of the current panel would have played Harty either with DLS or Dungarvan Colleges? Did Lismore or CBS Dungarvan or the Friary win any Senior game of hurling this year? (And they’re all either B or C grade). I know DLS lost in the Quarter final after 2 draws and a win in their group.

You wouldn’t ever see 5th or 6th years with a hurl in their hand in schools these days in Lismore or Dungarvan. They need to be tipping away everyday at lunchtime, and to be constantly playing against quality opposition to bring them on.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605268#Comment_120605268

Can you really be serious by basing an opinion/view on the standard of hurling based on observing 5/6th years in and around secondary schools and whether or not they have a ‘hurl’ in their hands…..thats just absurd 😡

Jjjjjjjjbarry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605203#Comment_120605203

Ok fair enough. Might be a bad example so. I wasn’t trying to knock the team but show that good players can come from an underage team that doesn’t have to be that successful. You need a good panel for a successful team but you could have three future all stars in a minor team that lose every game. We don’t know that at the time though.

I’m just throwing out an alternative to the viewpoint that we’re heading for doom.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605820#Comment_120605820

Yes.

Cake Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605941#Comment_120605941

Yeah I hear ya, this is something I've been thinking about recently as well (or clinging onto for some hope is probably more apt). It helps if you've good minor/u20/21 teams coming through particularly if they are successful, winning breeds winning and all that but I suppose the main aim of these teams is to unearth at least 1-2 lads capable of going on to slot into the senior setup down the line. I'd like to think we're meeting that aim as we do seem to have at least a few decent lads who come though most years, even if results would suggest otherwise. I think of the likes of the three Fitzgerald's, Michael Kiely, Conor Ryan on the current panel. Fairly sure you had the likes of Reuben Halloran and Cian Wadding involved pre-season too.

Couldn't really tell who were the stand out lads on the minor and u20 teams this year but I'm sure there must have been one or two (Jack Twomey, Charlie Treen, Joe Booth possibly as I recall them going well when they were at minor level).

The big caveat to the above though is lads we may think are fairly handy may be very ordinary when put up against their peers from other counties and this only becomes apparent when they face off in these championship games.

TheScoringGoal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605941#Comment_120605941

That's a fair point. Realistically you're never going to have a minor team full of stars, getting 4 good players is a good return. The problem is we've been slightly below that for a few years and I'd worry that there may be less from this year's team.

Mastermcgrath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604177#Comment_120604177

That’s why someone needs to put the question to Davy to clarify the situation. The social media stuff flying around just adds to the circus

Hopontop

I’m saying schools are where you have kids for 5 days a week for between 5 to 6 years, and that currently Waterford are not using them to develop players. Club training twice a week for an hour each time (maybe every second week if they’re dual clubs) is not enough to develop players up to the standard required (to win Munster’s and the elusive All Ireland).

Waterford, due to their disadvantages of being the smallest and least historically successful county in Munster, need to be working harder than other counties in developing players, not matching them, or as currently stands, being behind other counties.

The observation of students not having hurls in their hands is a symptom, obviously not the whole problem, a bigger problem as I mentioned is the standard these kids are playing against. The exception being DLS who hold their own at U19 A level.