Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

JD60

redlead wrote: »

There were three frees in the space of 5 minutes in the third quarter that were not fouls. The first was where I believe Austin Gleeson stood his ground and a free was given against him, if anything the KK player should have been penalised for not releasing. The second was Kevin Morans shoulder; and the third was where TJ tripped over his own feet and Horgan deemed it to be a trip by a Waterford player. I said before the match that I didn't believe him to be biased and that the issue is just that he is a really bad referee but I am genuinely wondering now. The difference in free counts in the second half is astonishing considering we had all the possession.

I read somewhere that the free count was 18 / 12, i.e. Waterford fouled one and half times more than Kilkenny ; that can't be true. Is there's a 'selection committee' that nominates the referee ... they need to have a good look at Saturday's semi final. If it is too late, just have to get on with it.

mountgomery burns

It is possible for one team to foul more than the other in fairness

carq

Interesting stats where the team that gives away the most frees win the majority of the time.

But against KK the difference is basically handing points to KK with TJ on the frees.

Is there any good website for GAA stats during a game ?

PTH2009

Could be wrong but was a Waterford players hurl grabbed by a KK player in the ruck in the 2nd half and a free not given

blue note

The impression I got was that kilkenny fared a lot better from the bad decisions / fifty fifty decisions than us. And from talking to neutrals, that's the impression they had too.

I don't believe he's biased, but I am fearful of him in a final.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Fergal Horgan is just bizzare. He usually lets the game flow, not blowing for frees. This leads to exciting games and is why he is regarded by the GAA as a top referee. This is also why he frustrates the hell out of fans and I assume players as there is no consistency and when he does blow for a free, it's mind boggling as he has let so many other fouls go. I try not to focus on frees for and against as they usually balance out over a game and I'm obviously biased as a Waterford man. The better team on the day usually does win but some bad refereeing can swing momentum and I did feel he blew for some harsh frees against us but also spotted some ones that he let go. He's just nuts.

blueflame

Club Deise are looking to fundraise to help with costs of preparing for the final and have set up a go-fund-me page on their website.

If we were allowed to go to the final I would be forking out probably €50 or more on a ticket personally and more if i was able to secure additional tickets for family. Since i cannot be there, I have decided to donate the saving of not having to buy an All ireland Final Ticket to Club Deise, as i know they use the money wisely and for the benefit of the players. I am encouraging all other supporters who can afford to, to do the same, with the emphasis being on "if you can afford it" .... it has been a very tough time financially for many people this year, and there are huge demands and supports needed at this time - but just a thought.

BloodyBill

blueflame wrote: »

Club Deise are looking to fundraise to help with costs of preparing for the final and have set up a go-fund-me page on their website.

If we were allowed to go to the final I would be forking out probably €50 or more on a ticket personally and more if i was able to secure additional tickets for family. Since i cannot be there, I have decided to donate the saving of not having to buy an All ireland Final Ticket to Club Deise, as i know they use the money wisely and for the benefit of the players. I am encouraging all other supporters who can afford to, to do the same, with the emphasis being on "if you can afford it" .... it has been a very tough time financially for many people this year, and there are huge demands and supports needed at this time - but just a thought.

Very generous of you. I did not think Waterford would have to do this. Its very sad.

whiteandblue

At half-time last Saturday, it was a strange feeling to be 7 points down to Kilkenny but not feel like Waterford were out of the match. In previous years, 7 points down to a Brian Cody led black & amber outfit in Croke Park after 35 minutes, morale would have been low, not that we would have thrown in the towel but minds would be wandering as to where the best place to stop for food on the way home.

But this year is different. The 1st half performance was littered with mistakes and basic errors, which as per usual, Kilkenny punished. It may have been nerves, adapting to new surroundings or another underlying issue, but these mistakes can not be repeated Sunday week.
The positives were plain to see however. But for these blips, Waterford could have been much closer. They had gifted Kilkenny the goals as I think most will admit, including themselves, SOK should have come off his line & got to the ball ahead of Hogan and Prunty should have held on the catch attempt which led to Reid coasting in. The analysis at half-time also showed players ballwatching on these which definitely helped contribute to the concession of the goals., again, another mistake that could be eradicated
Waterford also hit careless wides & wides from shots that were not the best option to take. Again, with better decision making, the score would have been closer. The basic errors the such as missed pickups, fumbling the sliotar, carrying into more than 1 tackler and poor passes also led to the 7 point lead but for all this, looking at how Waterford ended the half, the heads were still up, they hadn't faded and finished the half the stronger.
They had created the point scoring chances, could have had a goal or 2 (foul on Aussie), they were winning their fair amount of primary ball and my feeling was at half-time, that if they eradicate the basic errors, they can get the scores to get back in this match. I genuinely believed Waterford could have been level at half-time & hadn't been the worst of the 2 sides.

As others have said, the 2nd half was as good a half of hurling a Waterford side have produced. Games that sprung to to mind on great halves of Waterford hurling were the '01 1st half against Limerick, 2nd half in the 02 Munster final, the 70 minutes against Clare in 04. I do remember a league game in Nowlan Park in late 90's/early 00's when we were well down at half-time and produced a stunning 2nd half also but I don't think any matched what we saw last Saturday evening.
For a man, every player stood up. SOK's puckouts hit their exact targets, Kenny, Prunty & Moran tied up their men and their replacements, McNulty stormed forward, Lyons continued his fine 1st half form but with less mistakes, TDB drove into the match, Barron covered every blade & broke the line time & time again, Fagan hammered the hammer by dominating Kilkenny airally, Montgomery & Prendergast got on ball & went at their opponents, Stephen Bennett produced his best half of hurling in a Waterford senior jersey, Aussie worked tirelessly & rewarded with genuine scoring opportunities which he converted & Dessie found pockets of space & was clinical. And while Kieran Bennett & Jake Dillon hadn't their best days, both have contributed handsomely in getting Waterford to this stage, and it was such a positive to see the substitutes make such an impact, Darragh Lyons with goal, Gleeson knocking Fogarty out of play in possession, Montgomery's 2 points, Daly's coolness to slot his opportunity. From 1-26 there is a tremendous attitude. They are all giving their all, never giving up on any situation, giving every ounce of energy that they can for the good of the team. To see Aussie collapse to the ground indicated that he hadn't nothing more to give & 5-10 minutes after the final whistle during his TV interview, Stephen Bennett was still out of breath. These lads had gone to the bottom of the barrell and were suitably rewarded.

It's great to have the winter shortened but let's be honest, these are going to be the longest period of any part of the COVID lockdown! 12 more sleeps!

mountgomery burns

BloodyBill wrote: »

Very generous of you. I did not think Waterford would have to do this. Its very sad.

Sure we can't all be bankrolled by billionaires in this amateur game

BloodyBill

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sure we can't all be bankrolled by billionaires in this amateur game

Arent Limerick blessed to have him and his brother. I think they will end up actually putting in over 100 million by the time their 80..It sounds a crazy number but he's been sponsoring them for years and will probably do a trust for years after. Saying all that...the limerick county board still struggles for finance..they are like the HSE..disaster.
As an aside...how did Waterford travel up on Saturday...Limerick took the train. I cant imagine driving up and then playing a game..

enoughtaken

BloodyBill wrote: »

Arent Limerick blessed to have him and his brother. I think they will end up actually putting in over 100 million by the time their 80..It sounds a crazy number but he's been sponsoring them for years and will probably do a trust for years after. Saying all that...the limerick county board still struggles for finance..they are like the HSE..disaster.
As an aside...how did Waterford travel up on Saturday...Limerick took the train. I cant imagine driving up and then playing a game..

Charles Bianchini Transport

tommylad1212

BloodyBill wrote: »

Arent Limerick blessed to have him and his brother. I think they will end up actually putting in over 100 million by the time their 80..It sounds a crazy number but he's been sponsoring them for years and will probably do a trust for years after. Saying all that...the limerick county board still struggles for finance..they are like the HSE..disaster.
As an aside...how did Waterford travel up on Saturday...Limerick took the train. I cant imagine driving up and then playing a game..

They had 2 buses 14 on each

lim4ev

Lads I know a lot of ye are disappointed with Horgan reffing the final that maybe right or wrong but whats the thinking in Waterford of reffing in general? taking my green tinted limerick glasses off me in our match I would say 50% of all frees weren't frees and it was probably the same in yer semi. I don't want to see lads getting clattered left right and centre but if a guy goes into a tackle and falls invariably he gets a free. And before any of ye bring it up Hegartys challenge was a free in my opinion

Deise_abu

lim4ev wrote: »

Lads I know a lot of ye are disappointed with Horgan reffing the final that maybe right or wrong but whats the thinking in Waterford of reffing in general? taking my green tinted limerick glasses off me in our match I would say 50% of all frees weren't frees and it was probably the same in yer semi. I don't want to see lads getting clattered left right and centre but if a guy goes into a tackle and falls invariably he gets a free. And before any of ye bring it up Hegartys challenge was a free in my opinion

The Hegarty challenge was nothing and in fairness any ex players i have heard talk about it are saying a harsh yellow at worst, couldnt disagree

However i would love to see the volume of frees conceded / won by Hegarty, he had to get a yellow in my eyes, if the ref blows that many frees against you, regardless if they are frees or not, its a yellow.


In fairness I think Horgan singled out Prunty and watched him like a hawk, would love to know what he was saying to him before he started the game, looked like a warning to me, Horgan imho referees some players on reputation alone, '17 final and Barry Coughlan would be an example, I think Hegartys cards are marked and would be amazed if Horgan doesnt hand him a yellow before half time in the final and also think the same will apply to Prunty if he is seen to be holding Gillane.

Dont get me wrong I dont want to see more frees but to the point 50% of frees werent frees, I would say the game is fast becoming impossible to consistently referee, the handpass rule was almost ignored in the lim v gal match but consistent for both, in old money the amount of chops in both games was high but not sure its a foul anymore, spare arm / hand tackle is dominating the game and being coached so well its impossible to call, 3rd man tackles are now called tactics

Every tackle is technically a foul, we are coaching lads to check, pull and hold up the opponent, the faster you can do it means less chance of it being called but you break momentum

Where the ref sees a 1 on 1 arm pull or grab they generally wave advantage but if there are 3 or 4 lads pull and drag away just dont be obvious

When a ref blows a techical free its soft and stopping the flow of the game

How many balls picked straight off the ground? Players are getting down so low refs arent sure so leave if go from what i can see

Who would be a ref 🙄🙄

BloodyBill

Its a thankless job being a referee but the standard of reffing is poor regardless. In sundays game there was a tremendous amount of throwing. It was very obvious. O Donovan throws everytime,Tom Morrissey sometimes, a few of the Galway guys aswell threw it straight in front of the ref. The thing is Horgan is usually strict on that..He even blew a free on William O Donoghue when he couldn't possibly have seen if it was a legitimate pass ir not. It was a legal handpass. Limerick need to watch that in the final.
While the loose hand is always used to pull back guys now its illegal and should be clamped down on but legitimate attempts at 'shoulders' are a yellow if they are slightly off. Thats unfair. There should not be so many silly yellows and then there should be automatic yellows for multiple frees given away by a player. Hegarty should have been on a yellow for excessive frees given away. He gave away at least 4. 3 should be an automatic yellow...
In fact if there was a sin bin I think the yellow card could be gotten rid of. Red is definitely needed. But every yellow card offense could be 8 to 10 mins in the bin. 2 bins and your gone for the game. Three different coloured cards are excessive for any ref to manage

JD60

Extract below from this morning's Irish Times (Sean Moran).

" ....... aside from Waterford’s high-energy second-half, which brought about the famous win, there were the facts that spelled out how important beating Kilkenny was for the team.

Historically, it was only a third win over the neighbours in 14 championship meetings and the first time that Waterford had achieved back-to-back wins in the fixture - building on the 2017 qualifier success.

On the night, at half-time very few were envisaging Liam Cahill managing to roll away the stone in the time that remained. Put it this way: in Brian Cody’s 16 previous championship defeats over 21 years, never has the team that defeated Kilkenny had to overcome a seven-point half-time deficit.

In fact, out of all those 16 matches, the eventual winners only trailed at all in just four of them and each time, the interval margin was a single point. So, precedent was that you can’t let them out of your sight by half-time - which Waterford appeared to have done".

spideyman92

Putting my own negative feelings about Horgan aside, I was convinced it would be a Leinster ref with both finalist teams being from Munster.

PTH2009

Shane Fives fit for the final

Motivator

PTH2009 wrote: »

Shane Fives fit for the final

Will Fives come back in or will Ian Kenny keep his place? It would be harsh to drop Kenny I feel, I don’t think he’s done much wrong. That’s probably the biggest decision Liam Cahill has to make. It’s a huge call to put Fives in after what will be a month out.

PTH2009

Motivator wrote: »

Will Fives come back in or will Ian Kenny keep his place? It would be harsh to drop Kenny I feel, I don’t think he’s done much wrong. That’s probably the biggest decision Liam Cahill has to make. It’s a huge call to put Fives in after what will be a month out.

Yeah bit of a tough one, Fives would have the experience of an All Ireland senior final but does that really matter much these days with no crowd ?

Good to see Connor Gleeson could feature in an All Ireland final after what happened in 2017

seananigans

Motivator wrote: »

Will Fives come back in or will Ian Kenny keep his place?.

no it's shane fives

Cake Man

Motivator wrote: »

That’s probably the biggest decision Liam Cahill has to make.

That and whether to start Monty ahead of Dillon

mountgomery burns

Cake Man wrote: »

That and whether to start Monty ahead of Dillon

I'd say there's little doubt over that one to be honest

upthedeise16

Before the Munster final, I didn’t think Fives would be the good match for Casey & Mulcahy but did OK in the Munster Final even if Casey got 3 points and Mulcahy got 4, but if Flanagan starts, maybe physically Fives would be a better match?
It’s a tough decision and wouldn’t be made based on the Limerick team. I would stick with Kenny.

PTH2009

Minor Hurling semi against Tipp set for Sat Dec 12th in Pairc Ui Rinn (Final scheduled for the 20th December). Minor Football QF against Limerick set for the same day throw in at 4pm in Limerick

Under 20 Hurling fixtures TBC

Asdfgh2020

‘Up for the match’ to go ahead apparently, guests will include christy heffernan, Derek mcgrath, JP McManus, Leonard Enright and many many more...

PTH2009

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

‘Up for the match’ to go ahead apparently, guests will include christy heffernan, Derek mcgrath, JP McManus, Leonard Enright and many many more...

Those owl Kilkenny lads get around, Eddie Keher prob be on it too

Its not All Ireland weekend without 'Up for the match' even though it can cronic. Will we get a pissed John Mullane like the last time :D

Deisegodeo

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Anyone else having trouble donating via the club Déise gofundme page?

yes I had trouble with it last night too, gave it an hour and it worked fine then. it's over 12k already which is great

waterfordgirl

PTH2009 wrote: »

Minor Hurling semi against Tipp set for Sat Dec 12th in Pairc Ui Rinn (Final scheduled for the 20th December). Minor Football QF against Limerick set for the same day throw in at 4pm in Limerick

Under 20 Hurling fixtures TBC

Any idea if these will be televised? From memory I think they're not but it would be great if they were