Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

JeffKenna · 08-12-2020 10:31pm

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

The ‘Donnie Ryan’ and ‘begley’ goal show.....was an absolute sickener......9/10 pt win in the Munster final the previous month two tough games v cork we were led to believe was the reason for our defeat....? Not so sure about that any more when you look at what the current team has managed this short season as in consecutive games without any noticeable physical or mental ‘tiredness’ .......in any case would be nice to turn one over on Limerick a la 2007......

For those old enough to remember there is also the 2001 Munster semi......2-6 to a point up after 15/20 mins but again couldn’t hold on to the led and it was a ‘Begley’ goal show from memory that decided the game in the end......Limerick ran out winners by 3/4 pts..

Remember it well. Waterford started a blaze with a young forward by the name of Mullane. Clem Smith slapped into his knee. Can't remember if he had to be taken off or not but he wasn't the same after that "tackle".

JeffKenna · 08-12-2020 10:32pm

God I feel old.

Gavlor · 08-12-2020 10:41pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

God I feel old.

Youngfellas these days are spoilt! I remember the grim summers of the 80’s and early to mid 90’s.

seananigans · 08-12-2020 10:41pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Have a look on Facebook/YouTube and watch some of the 2018/2019 games. We were dire for most/if not all of those games and then we had the ghost goal.

Let's hope if things don't go our way Sunday that we don't suffer a massive hangover like the last time. Almost better for us if clubs go first for 2021

in some ways the ghost goal did us a favour, it didnt allow us to claima moral victory and gloss over a bad season by making a munster

JeffKenna · 08-12-2020 10:44pm

Gavlor wrote: »

Youngfellas these days are spoilt! I remember the grim summers of the 80’s and early to mid 90’s.

Well lucky enough I'm not that old!

PTH2009 · 08-12-2020 11:14pm

seananigans wrote: »

in some ways the ghost goal did us a favour, it didnt allow us to claima moral victory and gloss over a bad season by making a munster

The calender change for 2018 didn't help us one bit especially having the league kick off a week or 2 after they came back from holidays. We finished the group stage with 2 wins and still ended up in a relegation match where we lost to Cork. Then the injuries against Clare in the championship, we all know about the Tipp game and we fell apart rightly against Limerick

Dark days of modern Waterford hurling

Moggy13 · 08-12-2020 11:20pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Remember it well. Waterford started a blaze with a young forward by the name of Mullane. Clem Smith slapped into his knee. Can't remember if he had to be taken off or not but he wasn't the same after that "tackle".

That was an absolute sickener.. probably the best hurling Waterford have played in a half up until the Kilkenny game this year..was in terrace thinking we were witnessing Waterford as real AI contenders that year and then the Begley goals came and all of a sudden the Lkmerick supporters were clattering the hoarding at the back near the scoreboard, the noise was unbelievable and there was no stopping Limerick

TheScoringGoal · 08-12-2020 11:21pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

The calender change for 2018 didn't help us one bit especially having the league kick off a week or 2 after they came back from holidays. We finished the group stage with 2 wins and still ended up in a relegation match where we lost to Cork. Then the injuries against Clare in the championship, we all know about the Tipp game and we fell apart rightly against Limerick

Dark days of modern Waterford hurling

In the week of an all ireland final you still try to spread misery...

PTH2009 · 08-12-2020 11:22pm

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

In the week of an all ireland final you still try to spread misery...

Bit of reflection

Cake Man · 08-12-2020 11:26pm

The less said about '01 and '07, the better. I don't know what was worse...

Gavlor wrote: »

Youngfellas these days are spoilt! I remember the grim summers of the 80’s and early to mid 90’s.

It's mad to think the likes of Kieran Bennett is only on the panel, what, 3 or 4 years now and will be playing his second AI final. Compare that to the greats like Ken, Dan, Mullane, Tony who battled hard for over a decade each in the county colours only to experience it once (and that was an unmitigated disaster which was over after 10mins).
Go back further again and there's the likes of Hartley, Frampton, Cullinane, Crowley, Pat McGrath, Paul Flynn* etc. who never even had the opportunity of experiencing the big day. (I'd include Flynn here as, let's be honest, he was a spent force by '08 and although he did get on the field v KK in the second half, the game was well over and it was probably more of a token run out for him than anything else given it ended up being his last ever game for the county).
Point I'm making is that young lads (players and supporters) these days are growing up with a normalised view of reaching AI finals compared to years ago when even getting to Croke Park was an achievement in itself.

Giveitfong · 09-12-2020 12:11am

Tipperary won a very handy All-Ireland in 2001 with a modest team that beat a Galway team that failed to turn up in the final after shocking Kilkenny in the semi-final. If Waterford had got past Limerick that year they would have had a great opportunity to go all the way.

They played blistering hurling in the first twenty minutes againt Limerick, after which they were 2-6 to 0-1 ahead. After that, Limerick scored 4-10 to Waterford's 0-8, so to blame Sean Cullinane for losing the game is very unfair.

Gerard McCarthy showed again that day what he had already shown in 1998 - poor initial selection and inability to make the necessary changes during the game. He picked Fergal Hartley at centre forward (where nobody had ever seen him play before, or since) and Peter Queally at centre back. After the initial Waterford surge, Queally (not a centre back) struggled against Ollie Moran and McCarthy never made the obvious move of switching Hartley back to the position from which he captained Waterford to Munster success the following year. It was Moran who got Limerick back into the game with a goal before half-time - a goal which I thought Brendan Landers should have saved.

Landers was again at fault in the second half when, twice in the space of a few seconds, he batted out balls that he should have taken in hand, and when the ball was returned into the Waterford goalmouth, it was James Butler who fired to the net. Landers never played for Waterford again.

Brian Begley got the third goal when a 65 metre free dropped into a crowded goalmouth and he managed to grab the ball to fire to the net. He then caught Seán Cullinane out to fire what proved to be the winning goal.

The legend that Clem Smith did John Mullane (making his debut) in has not basis in fact. The match video clearly shows Mullane pulling up with a pulled muscle or hamstring with Smith nowhere near him.

In 2007 Waterford beat Limerick easily in the Munster Final and, in my view, did not take them seriously enough in the All-Ireland semi-final. I was at Limerick's quarter-final game against Clare and it was clear that they had greatly improved since the Munster final. Of course, Waterford should have insisted on a two-week break after the massive effort they put in to beat Cork in a replay in the other quarter final. That was just another example of the poor management which has dogged Waterford down through the years. At least this year, they finally have managed to get a top-quality managerial team.

Motivator · 09-12-2020 12:51am

Giveitfong wrote: »

Tipperary won a very handy All-Ireland in 2001 with a modest team that beat a Galway team that failed to turn up in the final after shocking Kilkenny in the semi-final. If Waterford had got past Limerick that year they would have had a great opportunity to go all the way.

They played blistering hurling in the first twenty minutes againt Limerick, after which they were 2-6 to 0-1 ahead. After that, Limerick scored 4-10 to Waterford's 0-8, so to blame Sean Cullinane for losing the game is very unfair.

Gerard McCarthy showed again that day what he had already shown in 1998 - poor initial selection and inability to make the necessary changes during the game. He picked Fergal Hartley at centre forward (where nobody had ever seen him play before, or since) and Peter Queally at centre back. After the initial Waterford surge, Queally (not a centre back) struggled against Ollie Moran and McCarthy never made the obvious move of switching Hartley back to the position from which he captained Waterford to Munster success the following year. It was Moran who got Limerick back into the game with a goal before half-time - a goal which I thought Brendan Landers should have saved.

Landers was again at fault in the second half when, twice in the space of a few seconds, he batted out balls that he should have taken in hand, and when the ball was returned into the Waterford goalmouth, it was James Butler who fired to the net. Landers never played for Waterford again.

Brian Begley got the third goal when a 65 metre free dropped into a crowded goalmouth and he managed to grab the ball to fire to the net. He then caught Seán Cullinane out to fire what proved to be the winning goal.

The legend that Clem Smith did John Mullane (making his debut) in has not basis in fact. The match video clearly shows Mullane pulling up with a pulled muscle or hamstring with Smith nowhere near him.

In 2007 Waterford beat Limerick easily in the Munster Final and, in my view, did not take them seriously enough in the All-Ireland semi-final. I was at Limerick's quarter-final game against Clare and it was clear that they had greatly improved since the Munster final. Of course, Waterford should have insisted on a two-week break after the massive effort they put in to beat Cork in a replay in the other quarter final. That was just another example of the poor management which has dogged Waterford down through the years. At least this year, they finally have managed to get a top-quality managerial team.

I think everyone was guilty of taking their eye off the ball that day in 2007. Justin was rash in making changes I felt and after a poor start Jack Kennedy got a peach of a point and literally 10 seconds later he was taken off. Mullane probably shouldn’t have started and I think Shane Walsh came on for him. Walsh didn’t get to grips with the pace of the game after coming on but had played well against Cork in the replay the week before so was probably unlucky not to start, especially as Mullane was sick. Imagine leaving Mullane out though and getting beaten? Justin wouldn’t have made it out of Dublin alive.

Jesus that day will forever haunt me. It was a beautiful day and Croke Parl was heaving. Monaghan were on in the football before our game and there seemed to be white and blue everywhere. I remember going up on the train and there were people saying they had their hotels booked for the weekend of the final. Waterford got off to a slow start whereas Limerick tore into it from the throw in. I think after 15 minutes we were 10 or 11 points down. Limerick scored 4-4 from play that day and I’d say it’s a record low score from play for a team to get to a final.

A real sour note, apart from the defeat, was some Waterford fans getting spat on by young Limerick lads as we left Hill 16. Absolutely the lowest I’ve ever seen at a hurling match. Another memory that will always stay with me was as we were walking out of Croke Park there was an old man just standing staring back into the oncoming crowd crying. I’m sure he’s well dead by now but it’s mad the things that you’d remember.

It would be lovely to be heading up on Sunday but it is what it is and I’m sure the lads will be well tuned in. Revenge for 2007 would be sweet.

Asdfgh2020 · 09-12-2020 1:34am

Motivator wrote: »

I think everyone was guilty of taking their eye off the ball that day in 2007. Justin was rash in making changes I felt and after a poor start Jack Kennedy got a peach of a point and literally 10 seconds later he was taken off. Mullane probably shouldn’t have started and I think Shane Walsh came on for him. Walsh didn’t get to grips with the pace of the game after coming on but had played well against Cork in the replay the week before so was probably unlucky not to start, especially as Mullane was sick. Imagine leaving Mullane out though and getting beaten? Justin wouldn’t have made it out of Dublin alive.

Jesus that day will forever haunt me. It was a beautiful day and Croke Parl was heaving. Monaghan were on in the football before our game and there seemed to be white and blue everywhere. I remember going up on the train and there were people saying they had their hotels booked for the weekend of the final. Waterford got off to a slow start whereas Limerick tore into it from the throw in. I think after 15 minutes we were 10 or 11 points down. Limerick scored 4-4 from play that day and I’d say it’s a record low score from play for a team to get to a final.

A real sour note, apart from the defeat, was some Waterford fans getting spat on by young Limerick lads as we left Hill 16. Absolutely the lowest I’ve ever seen at a hurling match. Another memory that will always stay with me was as we were walking out of Croke Park there was an old man just standing staring back into the oncoming crowd crying. I’m sure he’s well dead by now but it’s mad the things that you’d remember.

It would be lovely to be heading up on Sunday but it is what it is and I’m sure the lads will be well tuned in. Revenge for 2007 would be sweet.

The thing is limerick were only beaten by 6/7 pts by the ‘great kk team’ in the final......never looked like winning but at least they gave a respectable performance.....fast forward 12 months later and Waterford got ‘beaten back to the early 80’s’......well almost 3-30 to 1-13 or something, it’s a game you would want to wipe from the memory.....the 1982 Munster final was something like 5-31 to 3-6.....and 1983 was only slightly better...:(.........is there a risk of a complete meltdown this Sunday like 2008.......Cahill will hardly follow the pattern of ‘Davey’ that year for Sunday...?

PTH2009 · 09-12-2020 1:42am

Speaking of past Waterford vs Limerick games

In 2009 the drawn munster semi final was a shocking match with us very lucky to come out of it with a draw. We got over the line in the replay. Justin was Limerick manager at the time and apparently didn't even come in and congratulate Waterford on the win. 2009 was a mad championship with Limerick getting to an All Ireland semi final and were annihilated by Tipp. We of course lost to Tipp in the Munster final but beat Galway in injury time in the All Ireland QF, we then lost out to Kilkenny in the AI semi final but put in a massive effort

John Mullane saved us in 2011 with a last min goal to beat Limerick in the Munster semi final. That was another game which should of been a draw (think it was SOS who got away with a blatant foul in the last play of the game which a free would of drawn the game)

Amazingly the next time we faced them in championship wasn't til 2018 in which we were well beaten, same with the 2019 meeting

Waternut · 09-12-2020 9:13am

We beat Limerick easily in the Munster but you got to remember that they had just come off three games with Tipp on the trot. So you could argue that they were properly spent by the time we got to them in the Munster Final and took a easy beating off us. Pretty similar to what happen to us in the All Ireland semi. Swings and roundabouts really when I think of that year.

But full back issues, our Achilles' heel right through the noughties, cost us that semi and a right crack at Kilkenny in the final. My memory is that Kilkenny won the final by five of six, but probably didn't get out of fourth gear or their comfort zone for the entire game?

Teebor15 · 09-12-2020 10:04am

JeffKenna wrote: »

Remember it well. Waterford started a blaze with a young forward by the name of Mullane. Clem Smith slapped into his knee. Can't remember if he had to be taken off or not but he wasn't the same after that "tackle".

I remember that well, I was seated close to Mullane's corner. He was on fire, Smith couldn't handle him at all so decided to take him out. And to add insult to injury, while Mullane was lying poleaxed on the ground Smith stroll over to him to what looked like to check on him but instead just stepped over him picked up his hurley and flung 20 yards away...some prick!

blue note · 09-12-2020 10:26am

Did we really beat limerick all that easily in the 07 munster final? My memory was that it was a very close game where we pulled away at the end. But I thought for at least 60 minutes there was nothing in it.

And it always struck me as odd that the three weeks in a row was such a problem for us where we have limerick little to no slack when they played us on their 4th weekend on the trot. Going by our logic they should have been a lot better than the munster final where they were right beside us for most of the game.

That semi final was the toughest defeat I've endured as a waterford fan. But I always felt it was more to do with choking on the day as opposed to tiredness. There was an element of it being a bit of a freak game too. I know we were suspect for goals, but even for us 5 was a hell of a lot.

JeffKenna · 09-12-2020 10:39am

blue note wrote: »

Did we really beat limerick all that easily in the 07 munster final? My memory was that it was a very close game where we pulled away at the end. But I thought for at least 60 minutes there was nothing in it.

From my memory it was fairly tight well into the second half, Eoin Kelly was playing in the forwards and pulled back to midfield. Nobody followed him and he scored a few long range points. Next thing he was double marked and it freed up space for Dan who got a few goals to give a scoreline that wasn't really reflective of the game. I'm open to correction on that as it was a long time ago!

JD60 · 09-12-2020 11:09am

I remember, in the 2009 replay, John Mullane waving goodbye to the Limerick fans (at the town end) as they were leaving early. In fairness, he had probably taken a lot of verbal abuse from those same fans.

Deisegodeo · 09-12-2020 12:40pm

Interesting memories of our games with limerick going back the years. I was in the terrace that day in 2001 and I thought we were going to blow them away, 11 points up after 20 minutes and then we just collapsed , that goal before half time was crucial and it should have been stopped. the terrace went nuts when Smith stood over mullane on the ground and threw his Hurley away!

then there was that mad game a few years later which ended in a draw, something like 4-13 each but the tv cameras couldn't be set up so the game wasn't on tv as had been planned. just as well for mullane as he hand passed into an open goal and it was disallowed!

I won't even get into the 2007 semi final... it still hurts.

Motivator · 09-12-2020 1:47pm

Waternut wrote: »

We beat Limerick easily in the Munster but you got to remember that they had just come off three games with Tipp on the trot. So you could argue that they were properly spent by the time we got to them in the Munster Final and took a easy beating off us. Pretty similar to what happen to us in the All Ireland semi. Swings and roundabouts really when I think of that year.

But full back issues, our Achilles' heel right through the noughties, cost us that semi and a right crack at Kilkenny in the final. My memory is that Kilkenny won the final by five of six, but probably didn't get out of fourth gear or their comfort zone for the entire game?

Limerick played well in the Munster Final in 2007, a lot better than people give them credit for. I think we got 1-3 in the last couple of minutes and beat them by 9 in the end.

To clear up the thing about tiredness against Limerick in the semi final, it was mental fatigue that got to the players not physical. The two Cork games took their toll on the players and beating Cork in Croke Park was a massive thing for us back then. Was it the first time ever Waterford had beaten them outside of Munster? Cork were our main rivals and we were in the thick of the brilliant games in 2007 and we had played them 3 times in 6 weeks. The players were wrecked from travelling 3 times on the train to Dublin 3 weeks in a row and mentally they were shot. I remember taking to a couple of players after the All Ireland in 2008 and they said it took them nearly a week to get over the Tipperary game they were that mentally drained. Physically Waterford were the fittest team in Ireland in 2007.

Asdfgh2020 · 09-12-2020 2:21pm

Giveitfong wrote: »

Tipperary won a very handy All-Ireland in 2001 with a modest team that beat a Galway team that failed to turn up in the final after shocking Kilkenny in the semi-final. If Waterford had got past Limerick that year they would have had a great opportunity to go all the way.

They played blistering hurling in the first twenty minutes againt Limerick, after which they were 2-6 to 0-1 ahead. After that, Limerick scored 4-10 to Waterford's 0-8, so to blame Sean Cullinane for losing the game is very unfair.

Gerard McCarthy showed again that day what he had already shown in 1998 - poor initial selection and inability to make the necessary changes during the game. He picked Fergal Hartley at centre forward (where nobody had ever seen him play before, or since) and Peter Queally at centre back. After the initial Waterford surge, Queally (not a centre back) struggled against Ollie Moran and McCarthy never made the obvious move of switching Hartley back to the position from which he captained Waterford to Munster success the following year. It was Moran who got Limerick back into the game with a goal before half-time - a goal which I thought Brendan Landers should have saved.

Landers was again at fault in the second half when, twice in the space of a few seconds, he batted out balls that he should have taken in hand, and when the ball was returned into the Waterford goalmouth, it was James Butler who fired to the net. Landers never played for Waterford again.

Brian Begley got the third goal when a 65 metre free dropped into a crowded goalmouth and he managed to grab the ball to fire to the net. He then caught Seán Cullinane out to fire what proved to be the winning goal.

The legend that Clem Smith did John Mullane (making his debut) in has not basis in fact. The match video clearly shows Mullane pulling up with a pulled muscle or hamstring with Smith nowhere near him.

In 2007 Waterford beat Limerick easily in the Munster Final and, in my view, did not take them seriously enough in the All-Ireland semi-final. I was at Limerick's quarter-final game against Clare and it was clear that they had greatly improved since the Munster final. Of course, Waterford should have insisted on a two-week break after the massive effort they put in to beat Cork in a replay in the other quarter final. That was just another example of the poor management which has dogged Waterford down through the years. At least this year, they finally have managed to get a top-quality managerial team.

You are 100% correct re mullane / Clem smith incident.....it’s amazing how the myth that smith ‘did’ mullane has persisted all these years......he may have flung his hurley away and mouthed off to him with ‘strong language’ but as regards physical contact between the two there was none....smith looked like the ultimate tough guy / rugby player converted to hurling but there is no video evidence that the ahane man ‘did’ mullane and forced him to be subbed

blueflame · 09-12-2020 4:27pm

If memory serves me correctly and i have not viewed the 2001 game since that faithful day, just as Limerick were starting to come back into the game, Queally picked up a head injury and had to go off for treatment, Hartley was moved to Centre back where he immediately put the shackles on Moran, only for Queally to return to the fray and Hartley to go back to Centre Forward and the rest is history.

Regarding the 2007 Munster Final, in my memory games was in fact much closer than suggested. Kevin Moran i think made his championship debut that day at midfield and had a baptisms of fire against a very physical Limerick outfit. Games was nip and tuck in horrible conditions, until Dan was well place for this second two goals to put daylight between the sides. In honesty, again if memory serves me correctly and I am starting to have some doubts on that recently, we were not at our best that day by a longshot and allowed Limerick to get in our faces, and were quite flattered by final margin. Yes we were the better team on the day but by maybe 2/3 points only.

Hopefully the memories from this Sunday will really good ones and last a lot longer.

Jjjjjjjjbarry · 09-12-2020 7:20pm

Have ye all heard about the build up show on tonight at 8pm? Live on WLR FM and on youtube, facebook etc. Ken McGrath, Dan, Brendan Cummins, TJ Ryan along with Kieran O'Connor and Damien Tiernan