Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

windy shepard henderson

surely the fight back at the end has to be seen as a positive ,the lads off the bench were very positive in their impact , a 3 week break and a few injured players to come back might not be the worst thing in the world , it was sad by the way to see kevin moran subed so early in the game too ,

Mastermcgrath

Really didn’t see that flat performance coming after some encouraging performances in the league. Worst I’ve seen us play under Cahill. Fair play to Clare and best of luck to them against Tipp next weekend.

Not much else to say to put a positive spin on it, would’ve been a big ask to go and beat Tipp next weekend with the injuries we have and the collateral damage from today’s game, and ended up back in the same qualifier draw anyway. A few weeks to recuperate and get lads back is what’s needed now, there’s bound to be a kick back from this team in the qualifiers.

The big concern was the lack of fight and intensity particularly in the first half. Cahill was quick to point finger at the players after the match, and rightly so. But big questions around the whole setup after that. Something clearly isn’t working

JD. 60

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/nicky-english-wasteful-clare-do-just-enough-to-oust-depleted-déise-1.4605144

Deisegodeo

Liam Cahill's comments in the weeks after the all Ireland final defeat, whereby he said players didn't bring the required level of intensity to training and he could have dropped half the team, almost seem prophetic this morning.

Deisegodeo

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Liam Cahill's comments in the weeks after the all Ireland final defeat, whereby he said players didn't bring the required level of intensity to training and he could have dropped half the team, almost seem prophetic this morning.

Hardly worth sticking around,if lads wont put in the effort for him imo


The last year under derek mcgrath,championship.under fanning,all ireland last year,yesterday....lot of lads would wanna look in mirror and think of packing it in tbh


Anyone can be poor skill wise/have poor aspects to their game/not upto standred,but theres no excusing lack of effort

fuinneamh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hardly worth sticking around,if lads wont put in the effort for him imo


The last year under derek mcgrath,championship.under fanning,all ireland last year,yesterday....lot of lads would wanna look in mirror and think of packing it in tbh


Anyone can be poor skill wise/have poor aspects to their game/not upto standred,but theres no excusing lack of effort

I think your very generous to Cahill here. I feel Waterford were over coached to their running game. The defence gives you your options and the option yesterday was picking off long shots from midfield. Our lads repeatedly carried ball past the 65 into traffic when they had the space to shoot. This is a single minded gameplan which doesn't suggest much in the way of coaching decision making. It should also have been fixed at the first water break. Also keeping Lyons on Tony Kelly was madness.

lim4ev

From an outside perspective of course it was a disappointing performance but for me they'll learn a lot from it both mgmt and players they can dust themselves down get the injured back and come back stronger remember clare were much improved on last yr with key players back too but again for me I wouldn't be writing Waterfords obituary just yet

blueflame

fuinneamh wrote: »

I think your very generous to Cahill here. I feel Waterford were over coached to their running game. The defence gives you your options and the option yesterday was picking off long shots from midfield. Our lads repeatedly carried ball past the 65 into traffic when they had the space to shoot. This is a single minded gameplan which doesn't suggest much in the way of coaching decision making. It should also have been fixed at the first water break. Also keeping Lyons on Tony Kelly was madness.

I have to agree with this , if it becomes a known fact that you are going to run at defenders all the time, they prepare for it, let you come so far and then hit you with everything they have in congested areas and turn you over. KK were masters of this tactic for years. You must combat this by taking easy shorts when on offer and this forces defences to come out of their shell and opens space inside that can then be attacked. Unfortunately up to this weekend we were doing that with plenty of points been taken from our the field.

I honestly believe we were extremely complacent yesterday in many quarters and some our our younger players lacked a little bit of belief and experience when chasing eh game. While the end result was not effected by it as such, I do think any chance of a revival was "scuppered" by a very poor referring decision. Shane Fives did foul Shanagher but it was never at the point of being a goal scoring opportunity and it was never a penalty. The the net effect of this decision was we were closing in on half time four points down and were looking forward to the wind at our back, when all of a sudden you are 7 points and and trying to get over the last 8 minutes of first half down a man.

The lads just have to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and go again.

Pogue eile

I would be a big Liam Cahill fan but I think it is only right to be critical of his role yesterday, they just got everything wrong.

You would have to wonder what they were at going full belt against Tipp two weeks ago in a nothing game and then producing that yesterday.

Clare sat deep and were completely set up to negate the Waterford game plan- which was on full show for Lohan to see against Tipp - and then had absolutely no plan b. When Clare are sitting that deep it should have been a turkey shoot for the Waterford half back line and Midfield but they never changed their playing style and continued to try and run through Clare. If Calum Lyons had of been released to the half backline he would have scored a hatful.

All the above said I would still rate Waterford as a bigger contender than Clare, Clare still only hung on and were seriously on the ropes near the end.

Cahill oversaw a Tipp U21 team that were absolutely murdered in a Munster final and went on to win the AI, a nice draw the next day and Waterford will be right back in the mix again.

TheScoringGoal

Pogue eile wrote: »

I would be a big Liam Cahill fan but I think it is only right to be critical of his role yesterday, they just got everything wrong.

You would have to wonder what they were at going full belt against Tipp two weeks ago in a nothing game and then producing that yesterday.

Clare sat deep and were completely set up to negate the Waterford game plan- which was on full show for Lohan to see against Tipp - and then had absolutely no plan b. When Clare are sitting that deep it should have been a turkey shoot for the Waterford half back line and Midfield but they never changed their playing style and continued to try and run through Clare. If Calum Lyons had of been released to the half backline he would have scored a hatful.

All the above said I would still rate Waterford as a bigger contender than Clare, Clare still only hung on and were seriously on the ropes near the end.

Cahill oversaw a Tipp U21 team that were absolutely murdered in a Munster final and went on to win the AI, a nice draw the next day and Waterford will be right back in the mix again.

I'd have to agree with your analysis. He could even have kept the running game going so long as he had some shooter sitting in the pocket in front of Conlon so the ball could be recycled back to. He brought Curran on in the second half in this role but it was far too late. By running into and pucking ball on top of what amounted to a Clare defensive line between the full and half back lines we were essentially handing the ball to Clare to pick out their forwards in space. In the circumstances I'd feel our full back line didn't do too bad.

No doubt the players need to ask themselves if they took their eye off the ball and believed some of the media hype but I'd be a bit disappointed that Cahill seemed to absolve himself and the management team from any blame.

TheScoringGoal

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

No doubt the players need to ask themselves if they took their eye off the ball and believed some of the media hype but I'd be a bit disappointed that Cahill seemed to absolve himself and the management team from any blame.

Waterford and Limerick are a massive disadvantage this year considering how recently the AI final was. It's very hard, imo, to get people right for big games so soon after the final, not just fitness-wise, but mentality too. Probably all the moreso now when the squads can't let off steam on team holidays etc. I won't be surprised if Limerick lose this weekend either tbh. In a normal year they'd all have had a few months properly off.

PeggyShippen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Waterford and Limerick are a massive disadvantage this year considering how recently the AI final was. It's very hard, imo, to get people right for big games so soon after the final, not just fitness-wise, but mentality too. Probably all the moreso now when the squads can't let off steam on team holidays etc. I won't be surprised if Limerick lose this weekend either tbh. In a normal year they'd all have had a few months properly off.

You might be right about the short turn around but I'd be surprised if Limerick weren't sharp. They could lose to Cork but they won't be as limp as Waterford were. Cahill certainly has to take the blame..there was no intensity from the off. That's his job to get them to the pitch of the game. This is senior hurling not an underage match

PTH2009

Reckon a lot of home truths will be siad in training this week

We really need a kind draw in the 1st round. Anyone have a sneaky feeling Brian Cody will come back to haunt us and we will lose to Kilkenny in the qualifiers ?

Rosita

PTH2009 wrote: »

Reckon a lot of home truths will be siad in training this week

We really need a kind draw in the 1st round. Anyone have a sneaky feeling Brian Cody will come back to haunt us and we will lose to Kilkenny in the qualifiers ?

So you expect Wexford to beat Kilkenny? I'd say that's a stretch for starters.

Pogue eile

Rosita wrote: »

So you expect Wexford to beat Kilkenny? I'd say that's a stretch for starters.

They have played KK 4 times under Davy Fitz, won two, drew one and lost one by a point. I wouldn't say it was that unlikely at all.

Rosita

Pogue eile wrote: »

They have played KK 4 times under Davy Fitz, won two, drew one and lost one by a point. I wouldn't say it was that unlikely at all.

But if results in recent years (rather than the form of the last year at most) is to be considered then it makes no sense that you would expect Kilkenny to beat Waterford since Waterford won their last two meetings and have lost just one of the last four. The argument is inconsistent.

enoughtaken

25/1 in pp now. Just saying.

Pogue eile

Rosita wrote: »

But if results in recent years (rather than the form of the last year at most) is to be considered then it makes no sense that you would expect Kilkenny to beat Waterford since Waterford won their last two meetings and have lost just one of the last four. The argument is inconsistent.

All very interesting, now if you can show me where I said that Kilkenny would beat Waterford I'll agree with you!

spaceCreated

Whats the story with the clubs this year? Will it start up a bit earlier if the intercounty ends early?

Rosita

Pogue eile wrote: »

All very interesting, now if you can show me where I said that Kilkenny would beat Waterford I'll agree with you!

That's the conversation you jumped into and took ownership of. Unless you are randomly looking for an argument of course

If you don't think Kilkenny will beat Waterford the rest is irrelevant.

But you are right about one thing. It is indeed very interesting. Borderline fascinating I'd say.

JD. 60

enoughtaken wrote: »

25/1 in pp now. Just saying.

Don’t think there will be a stampede to take those odds ; hard to credit after last year’s exploits but maybe they overachieved last year.

Cahill talking about giving the fringe players a chance to prove themselves between now and the next match but who’s likely to step up to the plate.

Mastermcgrath

This is actually a big test for Liam Cahill now in his own management career, whether he sees it that way or not. He’s still new to senior inter-county, It’s his job to lift the players again, and get them ready for the qualifiers. I didn’t like the tone of his interview after the game, almost like he had decided he had given up on some of these players. If that’s his mindset going back into the camp it will transcend down to the players quickly and you can lose the dressing room.

He got a lot a lot of plaudits after getting these guys to an All Ireland, and rightly so. But it works both ways you can’t say it’s all you when it goes well but be devoid of blame when it goes wrong.

He’s known for being a tough love kind of approach, given the players will be on the floor after this, let’s see if he can lift it to get a tune out of them in the qualifiers.

Mastermcgrath

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

This is actually a big test for Liam Cahill now in his own management career, whether he sees it that way or not. He’s still new to senior inter-county, It’s his job to lift the players again, and get them ready for the qualifiers. I didn’t like the tone of his interview after the game, almost like he had decided he had given up on some of these players. If that’s his mindset going back into the camp it will transcend down to the players quickly and you can lose the dressing room.

He got a lot a lot of plaudits after getting these guys to an All Ireland, and rightly so. But it works both ways you can’t say it’s all you when it goes well but be devoid of blame when it goes wrong.

He’s known for being a tough love kind of approach, given the players will be on the floor after this, let’s see if he can lift it to get a tune out of them in the qualifiers.

If a lad cant lift or motivate himself to play inter county championship hurling,maybe they shouldnt be playing it?



It cant always be the usual waterford thing of the managers fault,either you want to suceed in any aspect of life,or you dont

an extemly limited clare team,beat them off the pitch....if we matched them in workrate,the team with more skilful players would win and its one area we arent lacking (skills)..which makes it frustrating as fcuk

TheScoringGoal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a lad cant lift or motivate himself to play inter county championship hurling,maybe they shouldnt be playing it?



It cant always be the usual waterford thing of the managers fault,either you want to suceed in any aspect of life,or you dont

an extemly limited clare team,beat them off the pitch....if we matched them in workrate,the team with more skilful players would win and its one area we arent lacking (skills)..which makes it frustrating as fcuk

Not necessarily. Take Calum Lyons for example. He didn't play badly, he restricted Kelly to 5 points from play was it? Bare in mind how Clare essentially played with two half back lines leaving huge space for the forwards they left up thats not a bad return for Lyons. However how much more could he have contributed if Conor Gleeson was picking up Kelly and Lyons could be one of the free men in front of him? Lyons could carry ball or score himself as he has shown over the last year. The only one who had the ability to allow that happen was Cahill but he didn't until too late. Similarly Austin was excellent but we needed him further up for the same reasons as Lyons but also we needed his physicality.

After 10 mins it was clear Clare had a second half back line in place and there was no chance of finding space in the full forward line for Dessie. But we kept putting ball in, mostly to Conlon on his own. We needed someone who could score from distance to come out deeper so the Clare players had to come out. Whether that be Stephen Bennett, Austin, Calum Lyons, even Shane McNulty. By the time Patrick Curran came on in the role it was much too late.

Some players played badly, no question about it. But I think Cahills interview where he accepted no blame himself is what is concerning.

JD. 60

Does anyone know for certain how the qualifiers work.

Right now, you have Waterford, Laois & Antrim plus 4 more teams after this weekend = 7 teams in all, which has to be reduced down to 6. I'm not sure how it gets to 6 .... is there a 'preliminary' match between Antrim/Laois or a draw between these 2 & Waterford as the preliminary ?

Anyway, when you get the 6 teams, 2 get a 'bye' leaving the other 4 teams to play each other ?

Now you're down to 4 teams if you're still with me ; these play off to leave 2 teams go forward into qtr finals to meet the provincial losers. Elementary my dear Watson.

Mastermcgrath

JD. 60 wrote: »

Does anyone know for certain how the qualifiers work.

Right now, you have Waterford, Laois & Antrim plus 4 more teams after this weekend = 7 teams in all, which has to be reduced down to 6. I'm not sure how it gets to 6 .... is there a 'preliminary' match between Antrim/Laois or a draw between these 2 & Waterford as the preliminary ?

Anyway, when you get the 6 teams, 2 get a 'bye' leaving the other 4 teams to play each other ?

Now you're down to 4 teams if you're still with me ; these play off to leave 2 teams go forward into qtr finals to meet the provincial losers. Elementary my dear Watson.

Laois and Antrim play in a relegation final this weekend with the winners going forward to first qualifying round, Open draw with ourselves and 2 semi final losers, with other 2 sf losers getting a bye. We’d have to win 2 games to get back to a AIQF

Billy Ocean

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Laois and Antrim play in a relegation final this weekend with the winners going forward to first qualifying round, Open draw with ourselves and 2 semi final losers, with other 2 sf losers getting a bye. We’d have to win 2 games to get back to a AIQF

the Laois Antrim game is on July 10 I think

Motivator

Deleted User wrote: »

If a lad cant lift or motivate himself to play inter county championship hurling,maybe they shouldnt be playing it?



It cant always be the usual waterford thing of the managers fault,either you want to suceed in any aspect of life,or you dont

an extemly limited clare team,beat them off the pitch....if we matched them in workrate,the team with more skilful players would win and its one area we arent lacking (skills)..which makes it frustrating as fcuk

I don’t think Clare are extremely limited at all, they know their strengths and they play to them. Waterford were very poor on Sunday, unbelievably poor for the first round of the Championship actually. There was no intensity in the game, it was very stop start and this water break thing has to go. It’s knocking the momentum out of games. That’s not an excuse for Waterford it’s more of a rant from me.

I expect us to get through the qualifiers and reach a quarter final and sure it’s wide open once it’s straight knockout.

PTH2009

We will play on the 17th July against either Laois,Antrim or one of the losing Leinster Semi finalists. We can't receive the automatic bye to Round 2 and that will go to one of the losing Munster Semi finalists

Open draw in Round 2 depending on repeat pairings IF we get there

puzl

This is our path to Liam this year:

Two weekends off during which we hope to see Prunty and Baron back. Fingers crossed of course.

Then:

17/18 July - 1st qualifier round Vs a semi final loser or winner of Laois/Antrim


If we win that then:

24 July - 2nd qualifier round against a beaten semi finalist.

If we win that:

31 July - QF against a losing provincial finalist.

If we win that:

7/8 August - Semi final against aprovincial winner

And if we win that........

We get a two weekends off

And then:

22 August AI final.

So we have 2 weeks off, 4 weeks in a row, two weeks off and a final. Seems like a tall order, but we'll keep on dreaming as always.