Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

Legalapples

I read somewhere that you have 3 attempts to record for each question ... does anyone else have any other general advice re the recorded video interview? DACB is my ideal firm and I'm so afraid to mess it up

IgoPAP

Legalapples wrote: »

I read somewhere that you have 3 attempts to record for each question ... does anyone else have any other general advice re the recorded video interview? DACB is my ideal firm and I'm so afraid to mess it up

I've done recorded answers to questions for Deloitte. My advice: stay calm, don't panic, and most importantly - - don't worry if you stumble over your words and think you should restart, it isn't something that most people notice. Just keep going! You're not expected to be perfect like you're reading off a pre-prepared speech. If you can, also, try to think of answers to questions they might ask, that way you won't be scrambling when you see the question for the first time.

Lallers96

Still no word from Staines, I'm a nervous wreck

FE1Nov20

Lallers96 wrote: »

Still no word from Staines, I'm a nervous wreck

Same hate this waiting game hopefully they’ll let us know one way or the other soon

2lazytogetup

anyone know what the salaries are for the the likes of Arthur Cox, Matheson, A&L, etc after you do qualify. and then salary likely to make after 5 years qualified with them.

Glassdoor suggests the average salary of a solicitor is about 69k. But i find that quite low for these big firms having regard to the quality of work you are expected to deliver and the hours.

jus_me

FE1Nov20 wrote: »

Same hate this waiting game hopefully they’ll let us know one way or the other soon

Same... nothing at all yet

rightytighty

2lazytogetup wrote: »

anyone know what the salaries are for the the likes of Arthur Cox, Matheson, A&L, etc after you do qualify. and then salary likely to make after 5 years qualified with them.

Glassdoor suggests the average salary of a solicitor is about 69k. But i find that quite low for these big firms having regard to the quality of work you are expected to deliver and the hours.

You should follow a few recruiters on LinkedIn, their posts give good indication of what salaries are like at the different tiers of firm at different levels of PQE. Top 5 NQ salaries seem to be around the 70k + bonus + benefits mark.

Corplawtrainee

2lazytogetup wrote: »

anyone know what the salaries are for the the likes of Arthur Cox, Matheson, A&L, etc after you do qualify. and then salary likely to make after 5 years qualified with them.

Glassdoor suggests the average salary of a solicitor is about 69k. But i find that quite low for these big firms having regard to the quality of work you are expected to deliver and the hours.

44k as a first year trainee and increasing by 2k each year after. 70k NQ but can make up to 20% extra with performance bonuses. You might see them starting to increase the salaries as more U.S. firms start setting up shop in Dublin. Dechert is offering over 100k for NQs just as a point of reference.

rightytighty

Corplawtrainee wrote: »

44k as a first year trainee and increasing by 2k each year after. 70k NQ but can make up to 20% extra with performance bonuses. You might see them starting to increase the salaries as more U.S. firms start setting up shop in Dublin. Dechert is offering over 100k for NQs just as a point of reference.

Yeah Dechert are even paying second year trainees 50k. That sort of money seems to be exclusive to funds-focused firms from what I’ve seen. Maples, Walkers, Dechert are the firms that come to mind as paying above the norm and they all focus on that area.

2lazytogetup

woah lucky therer are these new entries. 10 years ago there was only the big 5 irish firms. walkers and deschert werent in ireland or at least werent offering training contracts.

FE1Hopefully1

rightytighty wrote: »

Yeah Dechert are even paying second year trainees 50k. That sort of money seems to be exclusive to funds-focused firms from what I’ve seen. Maples, Walkers, Dechert are the firms that come to mind as paying above the norm and they all focus on that area.

Also important to remember that dechert only take on two trainees a year so that’s most likely why the pay is a lot higher also

Corplawtrainee

Yeah, they are all quite niche and funds-focused and a smaller number of trainees. I’d still reckon you’re better of training at one of the big 4 firms, staying for a few years then lateraling after, just in terms of training/CV. After that, seems hard to justify getting paid significantly for similar standards of work. I guess that’s why a good few junior associates end up heading to London/caymans for a few years.

biglawhead420

Corplawtrainee wrote: »

44k as a first year trainee and increasing by 2k each year after. 70k NQ but can make up to 20% extra with performance bonuses. You might see them starting to increase the salaries as more U.S. firms start setting up shop in Dublin. Dechert is offering over 100k for NQs just as a point of reference.

Yeah Dechert is €110,000 NQ plus bonus and better benefits.

They had it on their old brochure but took it out this year.

The secrecy around salaries here compared to the UK is very annoying.

IgoPAP

I'll be training at a big 5 and 44k as trainee and 70k on qualification is quite low when compared to big firms of equal reputation in London. It's one of the reasons why I'm thinking of jumping ship to London when I quality, at least for a number of years. It's not like the housing situation is so much worse in London.

FE1Hopefully1

All this talk about money makes me jealous I’m not in a big firm but at the same time also half glad I’m not haha.

FE1Pleb

How do those training with criminal firms expect to pay for Blackhall?
If you don't mind sharing, what are those in criminal firms earning whilst training and expect to earn after?
Currently on 23k and can't see myself getting a raise pre-blackhall

biglawhead420

IgoPAP wrote: »

I'll be training at a big 5 and 44k as trainee and 70k on qualification is quite low when compared to big firms of equal reputation in London. It's one of the reasons why I'm thinking of jumping ship to London when I quality, at least for a number of years. It's not like the housing situation is so much worse in London.

Agreed. I think as a trainee life is better in dublin though.
The trainee salaries in big 5 and London MC are similar enough. Plus here you get a full salary while taking it quite easy for 11 months at Blackhall which you don't get in the UK.

Corplawtrainee

IgoPAP wrote: »

I'll be training at a big 5 and 44k as trainee and 70k on qualification is quite low when compared to big firms of equal reputation in London. It's one of the reasons why I'm thinking of jumping ship to London when I quality, at least for a number of years. It's not like the housing situation is so much worse in London.

Yeah I’m the same, London bound after qualifying. U.S. firms over their seem to be pretty keen on hiring Corporate/Finance lawyers from Dublin firms. Tbh the trainee salary is pretty much on par with City firms in London. It’s just the gap on qualification that’s not worth it imo.

the baby bull elephant

FE1Pleb wrote: »

How do those training with criminal firms expect to pay for Blackhall?
If you don't mind sharing, what are those in criminal firms earning whilst training and expect to earn after?
Currently on 23k and can't see myself getting a raise pre-blackhall

One option you should be aware of is that firms get tax credits for paying fees. It would be a strange firm that wouldn't agree to pay the fees initially and allow you to pay them back the reduced amount. I don't know the exact amount it saves but apparently it's a few grand so substantial enough.

Corplawtrainee

biglawhead420 wrote: »

Agreed. I think as a trainee life is better in dublin though.
The trainee salaries in big 5 and London MC are similar enough. Plus here you get a full salary while taking it quite easy for 11 months at Blackhall which you don't get in the UK.

Completely agree with that, my thought process exactly. Slogging it away as a trainee at a MC firm, the stress of the accelerated LPC on a pretty slim maintenance grant for 48k (VS) Getting to do a paid year at Blackhall and less crazy hours to some extent.

IgoPAP

Corplawtrainee wrote: »

Yeah I’m the same, London bound after qualifying. U.S. firms over their seem to be pretty keen on hiring Corporate/Finance lawyers from Dublin firms. Tbh the trainee salary is pretty much on par with City firms in London. It’s just the gap on qualification that’s not worth it imo.

US firms in London are playing another game entirely. On the Cravath scale, which is what most big US firms go by, first year salary is around $190,000 plus bonuses, convert that to pound sterling. The downside being you'll be worked like a dog. I would like a work life balance so I wouldn't be able to work at a place like that for more than a few years. But you're right about them being keen on hiring young Irish corporate solicitors according to LinkedIn. Not really sure why though.

FE1Hopefully1

Out of curiosity would anyone know how much Philip lee pay haha

Corplawtrainee

IgoPAP wrote: »

US firms in London are playing another game entirely. On the Cravath scale, which is what most big US firms go by, first year salary is around $190,000 plus bonuses, convert that to pound sterling. The downside being you'll be worked like a dog. I would like a work life balance so I wouldn't be able to work at a place like that for more than a few years. But you're right about them being keen on hiring young Irish corporate solicitors according to LinkedIn. Not really sure why though.

Lawyers at the big 5, particularly A&L / AC (No shade to the others but those two normally end up getting instructed on some of the more landmark deals) get really good training and experience working on pretty complex transactions for big clients - especially within tech, life sciences, Financial services where Dublin has quite a strong reputation. Not all NQs coming from other London firms can say the same.

Also, Private Equity has been booming in London over the last few years so lots of work available for good corporate/finance lawyers that have experience of working at a similar level.

IgoPAP

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Out of curiosity would anyone know how much Philip lee pay haha

They cover all Blackhall fees and around ~30k if I'm not mistaken. They're growing quite rapidly + good reputation

FE1Hopefully1

IgoPAP wrote: »

They cover all Blackhall fees and around ~30k if I'm not mistaken. They're growing quite rapidly + good reputation

I’m happy enough as long as the firm covers blackhall fees

Dropin

Any advice on this would be much appreciated:

I have 3 exams left and wouldn't mind finishing them this March. However, I would only be starting Company now and time is tight with other commitments. Would anyone know if it would be unusual to get offered a training contract in the same year you apply? I ask because if its extremely unlikely that id get one for 2021 then il just leave my last exam until October.

I appreciate that theres no definite answer but if anyone could even say what they would feel in this situation it would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

FE1Hopefully1

Dropin wrote: »

Any advice on this would be much appreciated:

I have 3 exams left and wouldn't mind finishing them this March. However, I would only be starting Company now and time is tight with other commitments. Would anyone know if it would be unusual to get offered a training contract in the same year you apply? I ask because if its extremely unlikely that id get one for 2021 then il just leave my last exam until October.

I appreciate that theres no definite answer but if anyone could even say what they would feel in this situation it would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

There’s very little firms recruiting for this coming year however smaller firms do look for trainees after the March sitting to start in 2021 but it’s the luck of the draw tbh

There is always the hybrid as well that starts in December which some firms have started to like

Dropin

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

There’s very little firms recruiting for this coming year however smaller firms do look for trainees after the March sitting to start in 2021 but it’s the luck of the draw tbh

There is always the hybrid as well that starts in December which some firms have started to like

Thank you. I suppose I probably wont get a training contract this year even if I finish in March, but I definitely wont if I don't.

I think i'm also just running scared from Company after hear the results from the last sitting haha.

FE1Hopefully1

Dropin wrote: »

Thank you. I suppose I probably wont get a training contract this year even if I finish in March, but I definitely wont if I don't.

I think i'm also just running scared from Company after hear the results from the last sitting haha.

Oh I wouldn’t worry to much tbh I did it last March and found it very straightforward and the paper is quite repetitive. You always only hear about the people that were disappointed but I know and have heard a few that did well enough

Aisbash

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

All this talk about money makes me jealous I’m not in a big firm but at the same time also half glad I’m not haha.

On paper it does sound amazing I agree. I have a training contract with one of the big 5 and I am very lucky to be getting my Blackhall fees paid. Do keep in mind that the salary is reflective of the hours you will work. My bestfriend is a second year trainee in Arthur Cox and frequently goes into work on Saturdays(pre Covid) and will often still be working up until 12am. The work life balance can be non-existent depending on the department and when one works out the salary paid versus the hours actually worked it is not all that amazing. In contrast my sister trained in a very respected small litigation firm in Dublin and absolutely loved it. She was always home at 5/6 and worked on very interesting medical negligence high court cases (she is now qualified and working in this area in one of the big five). She loved training in Dublin and the work-life balance she had allowed her to really enjoy Dublin as a young professional. Her small-firm training did not prevent her from earning the same NQ salary as her big 5 trainee counterparts.

I am not bashing corporate firms, I love corporate law and this is the reason I applied to these firms, but I imagine it would be a tough few years training at those hours if I was not genuinely passionate about this area. Everyone's training experience will be different, but salary is not something I would advise comparing.

So don't be jealous or disheartened reading the figures posted here, I can assure you those trainees will be worked to the bone for that salary. To secure a training contract in this market is an achievement, regardless of the salary(providing it is enough to live off of course).

SKLaw

Dropin wrote: »

Thank you. I suppose I probably wont get a training contract this year even if I finish in March, but I definitely wont if I don't.

I think i'm also just running scared from Company after hear the results from the last sitting haha.

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Oh I wouldn’t worry to much tbh I did it last March and found it very straightforward and the paper is quite repetitive. You always only hear about the people that were disappointed but I know and have heard a few that did well enough

I agree. As long as you prepare well enough and just give it your best, you’re gonna be okay. I approached it quite similarly as Contract. I went over the past paper and identified the topics first then checking it on the exam grid to see if I was right or not. I did this before answering any of the questions just so I knew how the topics were being asked

FE1Hopefully1

Aisbash wrote: »

On paper it does sound amazing I agree. I have a training contract with one of the big 5 and I am very lucky to be getting my Blackhall fees paid. Do keep in mind that the salary is reflective of the hours you will work. My bestfriend is a second year trainee in Arthur Cox and frequently goes into work on Saturdays(pre Covid) and will often still be working up until 12am. The work life balance can be non-existent depending on the department and when one works out the salary paid versus the hours actually worked it is not all that amazing. In contrast my sister trained in a very respected small litigation firm in Dublin and absolutely loved it. She was always home at 5/6 and worked on very interesting medical negligence high court cases (she is now qualified and working in this area in one of the big five). She loved training in Dublin and the work-life balance she had allowed her to really enjoy Dublin as a young professional. Her small-firm training did not prevent her from earning the same NQ salary as her big 5 trainee counterparts.

I am not bashing corporate firms, I love corporate law and this is the reason I applied to these firms, but I imagine it would be a tough few years training at those hours if I was not genuinely passionate about this area. Everyone's training experience will be different, but salary is not something I would advise comparing.

So don't be jealous or disheartened reading the figures posted here, I can assure you those trainees will be worked to the bone for that salary. To secure a training contract in this market is an achievement, regardless of the salary(providing it is enough to live off of course).

Oh no I’m perfectly happy with my small firm haha I have no interest in being worked to the bone like so many do and I’ve heard so many horror stories from William fry and the likes so I’m good 😂

Dropin

SKLaw wrote: »

I agree. As long as you prepare well enough and just give it your best, you’re gonna be okay. I approached it quite similarly as Contract. I went over the past paper and identified the topics first then checking it on the exam grid to see if I was right or not. I did this before answering any of the questions just so I knew how the topics were being asked

Much appreciated

jus_me

Has anyone heard from MJ Staines other than the POFs earlier in the week?

FE1Hopefully1

jus_me wrote: »

Has anyone heard from MJ Staines other than the POFs earlier in the week?

I haven’t heard of anyone with an interview yet

Lallers96

jus_me wrote: »

Has anyone heard from MJ Staines other than the POFs earlier in the week?

Again nothing yet. Getting a bit impatient now I won't lie. Really would've expected word by now, especially since they are opening their internships on Feb 1st

FE1Hopefully1

Lallers96 wrote: »

Again nothing yet. Getting a bit impatient now I won't lie. Really would've expected word by now, especially since they are opening their internships on Feb 1st

Yeah I find it odd that some people got the PFOs Monday and then nothing since then

FE1Nov20

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Yeah I find it odd that some people got the PFOs Monday and then nothing since then

Yeah I remember last year when I applied to their trainee programme I didn't hear anything back at all, not even a PFO, so hopefully that doesn't happen again

FE1Hopefully1

FE1Nov20 wrote: »

Yeah I remember last year when I applied to their trainee programme I didn't hear anything back at all, not even a PFO, so hopefully that doesn't happen again

Oh I got a PFO Monday afternoon

FE1Nov20

FE1Nov20 wrote: »

Yeah I remember last year when I applied to their trainee programme I didn't hear anything back at all, not even a PFO, so hopefully that doesn't happen again

I hate that I never heard from Fieldfisher... nor Shields Saldeir

FE1Hopefully1

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate that I never heard from Fieldfisher... nor Shields Saldeir

Same

IgoPAP

One of the nastiest things some firms do is that they don't even bother sending you a PFO, they just don't get back to you at all. Awful stuff. Most people would rather just be told than be put in permanent suspense.

FE1Hopefully1

IgoPAP wrote: »

One of the nastiest things some firms do is that they don't even bother sending you a PFO, they just don't get back to you at all. Awful stuff. Most people would rather just be told than be put in permanent suspense.

At least field fisher do say we will contact you if we are in a position to interview you

Corplawtrainee

Lol yeah..AMOSS sent me a PFO two weeks after the internship was over. Don’t know why firms even bother at that stage, not a good look.

Lallers96

FE1Nov20 wrote: »

Yeah I remember last year when I applied to their trainee programme I didn't hear anything back at all, not even a PFO, so hopefully that doesn't happen again

Ah seriously, I've got my hopes up for nothing. I would've thought a law firm would have some standards

law987

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Out of curiosity would anyone know how much Philip lee pay haha

25k for internship while you're being assessed for TC, and 30k once you get offered the TC

law987

Anyone know Eversheds trainee salary

LawBoy2018

law987 wrote: »

Anyone know Eversheds trainee salary

Lower than the top 5, I think it's like high 30s.

IgoPAP

Anybody have experience with Pinsent Masons?

NewFe1

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Lower than the top 5, I think it's like high 30s.

Have a friend in Eversheds and I'm fairly sure he told me it was 42k