Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

bobbyness

manofsheeeep wrote: »

Hi guys, I apologise if this doesn't fit the thread, but I really need some advice.

I've an LL.B, LL.M and all FE1's passed. I've good grades in everything, but could never attain legal experience.

I've been stuck in a rubbish customer service position since completing the FE1's and just can't progress out of It. I think my lack of legal experience and maintaining this job is a stain on my CV. My CV and Cover Letter themselves seem acceptable as I've consulted agencies a few times on these.

I've applied for what must be thousands of legal jobs over the past few years, and I've even done compliance courses to try get an "in" as an entry level "analyst", but haven't even got so far as an interview yet.

My question is, what avenues should I explore for progression to a trainee? I've been applying for compliance analyst type roles and clerical officer positions as of late, but no dice yet.
I'm just so frustrated at the prospect of my FE1's expiring before I attain a training contract.

I appreciate any feedback anyone might have here.

Cheers

Got to admit as someone who is about to sit their final 2 fe1 exams, and also struggling to find a training contract it isn't giving me much hope.

All I can say is maybe looking at your cover letter and make sure it properly highlights the clearly proven and well educated solicitor you would make.

Wish you all the best with your search. You're not alone in the struggle!

Bantz_Control

I'm always amazed by the disparity between the people that are demonstrably well-qualified (perhaps over-qualified) that find extraordinary difficult to source a TC, while on the other hand, you have college students with no legal experience being handed training contracts with the most prestigious law firms (big 4) in the country.

I wonder what explains the discrepancy?

bobbyness

Bantz_Control wrote: »

I'm always amazed by the disparity between the people that are demonstrably well-qualified (perhaps over-qualified) that find extraordinary difficult to source a TC, while on the other hand, you have college students with no legal experience being handed training contracts with the most prestigious law firms (big 4) in the country.

I wonder what explains the discrepancy?

At the risk of sounding like a cynic, I think it often comes down to who you know, rather than what you know.

FE1new

Bantz_Control wrote: »

I'm always amazed by the disparity between the people that are demonstrably well-qualified (perhaps over-qualified) that find extraordinary difficult to source a TC, while on the other hand, you have college students with no legal experience being handed training contracts with the most prestigious law firms (big 4) in the country.

I wonder what explains the discrepancy?

I would say its about planning for the firms. A college student isn't going to need a TC next year or even the year after in some cases. For example you are not likely to go into the milkrounds of the big 4 and get a TC for that year. Also sometimes it's that we don't sell ourselves well in the applications. Mine were attrocus even though I have the experience, grades and some FE1s done. Another point would be do college students give you a blank slate, they can be molded to the firms way.

I eventually did get a TC in one of the big 4 and can assure you I had zero connections but it did take a few rounds and plenty of PFOs.

Wonderboy2010

Maybe in some cases. However, I have friends who secured internships and training contracts with the Big 5 with no connections at all in their 2nd year of college. They were simply top class candidates who excelled academically, very involved in extracurriculars, and well prepared. They got the ball rolling from the very start of first year, attending insight days and applying to internships exclusively for first years (IE: Matheson Career First programme). I guess you can say they made connections from doing these things, but, it definitely wasn't from nepotism.

Lallers96

Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

Fe1new4

Lallers96 wrote: »

Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

Not the answer you’re looking for but as someone who has been working as a secretary for almost two years now and still looking for a TC I really dislike how you’re talking down about that sort of work. It’s as boring as you make it, you’ve only been there two weeks and over the past two years I’ve learnt more about procedures/ the practical side of law than I ever did at college, if you do the work you’re given well and enthusiastically they’re much more likely to include you in higher responsibility jobs. I’d say give it time.

Bantz_Control

Fe1new4 wrote: »

Not the answer you’re looking for but as someone who has been working as a secretary for almost two years now and still looking for a TC I really dislike how you’re talking down about that sort of work. It’s as boring as you make it, you’ve only been there two weeks and over the past two years I’ve learnt more about procedures/ the practical side of law than I ever did at college, if you do the work you’re given well and enthusiastically they’re much more likely to include you in higher responsibility jobs. I’d say give it time.

But that's the thing. He's not a secretary but a trainee solicitor. He should be given tasks that befit his role, not serve as a temp stand-in for a secretary on maternity leave.

@Lallers96

@Lallers96 - just to give my two cent: There should be a marked difference between you and the support staff. I've worked as a legal executive and from what I've seen, there was always a notable difference between support staff and trainees.

For one, trainees never answered general calls into the practice. They would deal with a client once it was passed from reception, but that's it. They wouldn't be manning the phones.

Things like preparing briefs, which can seem admin in nature, are an important skills for a trainee. Particularly, what documents go into one and what has to be kept out.

You will probably do some photocopying also - it is what it is.

Are you attending meetings with the solicitors when a client is in? Are you part of phone calls with clients? Are you going to court (if they do court related work)? If they do conveyancing, have you been given title to read? Contracts to draft? Requisitions? Pre-contract enquiries? PRAI stuff? Stamp duty? If they draft wills, have you had the opportunity to do this?

Look at their practice areas and make a list of the things you want them to be showing you. Have a chat with them at that stage.

Honestly, they sound a bit dubious though. Arguably, they would have had to pay a secretary more than what they might be paying you as a trainee. So they may well be using you for now until PPC actually starts. You're doing the Hybrid, ya? Their attitude might be to do this until yer one is back from mat leave. Now, I could be wrong.

Do have a chat with them and see how things go.

If you feel like you won't get a decent training contract with them, I'd be keeping an eye out for a contract elsewhere. I know they are very hard to come by at the moment, I'm looking myself. But I really want to get a halfway decent one, I don't want to end up with a crap one.

neon123

It sounds frustrating but It’ll be worth it if you can hang tight. At least you got into a firm with a TC so putting up with a bit of grunt work at the beginning doesn’t sound to bad to me. They could well be using you for cheap labor at the moment but once the secretary is back from maternity leave I’d say they will start giving you proper work.

Lallers96

Fe1new4 wrote: »

Not the answer you’re looking for but as someone who has been working as a secretary for almost two years now and still looking for a TC I really dislike how you’re talking down about that sort of work. It’s as boring as you make it, you’ve only been there two weeks and over the past two years I’ve learnt more about procedures/ the practical side of law than I ever did at college, if you do the work you’re given well and enthusiastically they’re much more likely to include you in higher responsibility jobs. I’d say give it time.

I have honestly been the model professional so far. I've been so kind to everyone, I get along with all staff, I do everything I'm asked to do and when I have it done quickly they are amazed at how fast I'm learning the basics. I'm more shocked at how they're shocked to be honest because all I'm doing it basic, basic stuff. You would think that given the various tasks I've been given and clearly are too easy, that they'd give me more to do. But no. I'm left with all the easy stuff done before it's even 12 and then all day I'm staring at the clock.

That's not the job of a trainee solicitor, and I'm learning nothing about the job itself. I'm doing plenty of learning of how to be a secretary on minimum wage though and that's not what a trainee solicitor is.

Fair enough it's my first two weeks but the work clearly isn't challenging at all and that's a waste of everyone's time isn't it

Lallers96

neon123 wrote: »

It sounds frustrating but It’ll be worth it if you can hang tight. At least you got into a firm with a TC so putting up with a bit of grunt work at the beginning doesn’t sound to bad to me. They could well be using you for cheap labor at the moment but once the secretary is back from maternity leave I’d say they will start giving you proper work.

I hope so. Its just a bit of doubt in my mind that I've actually got the TC and I hope they don't just bin me once she comes back. Pure paranoid tbh

Lallers96

able1 wrote: »

@Lallers96 - just to give my two cent: There should be a marked difference between you and the support staff. I've worked as a legal executive and from what I've seen, there was always a notable difference between support staff and trainees.

For one, trainees never answered general calls into the practice. They would deal with a client once it was passed from reception, but that's it. They wouldn't be manning the phones.

Things like preparing briefs, which can seem admin in nature, are an important skills for a trainee. Particularly, what documents go into one and what has to be kept out.

You will probably do some photocopying also - it is what it is.

Are you attending meetings with the solicitors when a client is in? Are you part of phone calls with clients? Are you going to court (if they do court related work)? If they do conveyancing, have you been given title to read? Contracts to draft? Requisitions? Pre-contract enquiries? PRAI stuff? Stamp duty? If they draft wills, have you had the opportunity to do this?

Look at their practice areas and make a list of the things you want them to be showing you. Have a chat with them at that stage.

Honestly, they sound a bit dubious though. Arguably, they would have had to pay a secretary more than what they might be paying you as a trainee. So they may well be using you for now until PPC actually starts. You're doing the Hybrid, ya? Their attitude might be to do this until yer one is back from mat leave. Now, I could be wrong.

Do have a chat with them and see how things go.

If you feel like you won't get a decent training contract with them, I'd be keeping an eye out for a contract elsewhere. I know they are very hard to come by at the moment, I'm looking myself. But I really want to get a halfway decent one, I don't want to end up with a crap one.

Thanks for your detailed response. To give you a better view of things based on what you've said, I am manning the phones and I have yet to sit in on any client meetings, I have yet to go to court with a solicitor, I havent come close to preparing a brief, bar binding the brief haha.

Photocopying and scanning yes, and I understand you'll be doing that loads in any office related position so that makes sense however easy it is to do. I haven't drafted any legal documents yet or anything of the sort. Nearest thing I got was witnessing an already done will and serving summons to someone which wasn't a nice job at all but had to be done.

I agree with you and I will be continuing to look elsewhere in case they are pulling a fast one on me. But beggars can't be choosers either which sucks because I can barely afford the petrol it's costing me to work

bobbyness

Anyone willing to provide any examples of what to include in a cover letter for a trainee position?

I've been applying any hardly getting any responses, so would be probably fair to assume my cover letter isn't up to scratch.

My marketing background I feel is not serving me well in my search for a legal oriented role. Barely getting responses for secretarial and executive legal roles.

Just no idea how I am going to be able to get any experience in a legal background, since all the roles I am applying have it as a requirement? How do I get around this catch 22 situation?

FE1Rookie

Anyone applied to Shields Sadlier here? Wondering what they're like to work for/interview for.

FE1Rookie

Lallers96 wrote: »

Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

That does sound fishy. The main secretary will be back around the time you start the Hybrid so I would be careful they don't just get rid of you before you get to do PPC. You'd be left a year waiting to do PPC again.

It seems like they don't normally take trainees on since they seem to not really give you work to do other than the tasks nobody else wants to do, or picking up the odd jobs off secretaries. Don't let yourself be taken for granted, even though training contracts are rare you don't deserve to be pulled about spending all your earnings on working (petrol etc.)

neon123

FE1Rookie wrote: »

That does sound fishy. The main secretary will be back around the time you start the Hybrid so I would be careful they don't just get rid of you before you get to do PPC. You'd be left a year waiting to do PPC again.

It seems like they don't normally take trainees on since they seem to not really give you work to do other than the tasks nobody else wants to do, or picking up the odd jobs off secretaries. Don't let yourself be taken for granted, even though training contracts are rare you don't deserve to be pulled about spending all your earnings on working (petrol etc.)

Surely there are easier ways to get temp cover rather than going through the motions of creating a fake TC? Also, if the worst case scenario did come to fruition then the firm would probably receive severe rebuke from the LS and risk damaging their reputation?

Bantz_Control

neon123 wrote: »

Also, if the worst case scenario did come to fruition then the firm would probably receive severe rebuke from the LS?

I doubt it.

FE1Hopefully1

bobbyness wrote: »

Anyone willing to provide any examples of what to include in a cover letter for a trainee position?

I've been applying any hardly getting any responses, so would be probably fair to assume my cover letter isn't up to scratch.

My marketing background I feel is not serving me well in my search for a legal oriented role. Barely getting responses for secretarial and executive legal roles.

Just no idea how I am going to be able to get any experience in a legal background, since all the roles I am applying have it as a requirement? How do I get around this catch 22 situation?

In my cover letter I have my previous work and why it would help me in the training contract and I also have that I went abroad on a college trip to visit some of the biggest London firms and the fact that I did an advocacy and mooting module.

My cover letter isn’t the best tbh hahah …. My advice would be to maybe apply for more internship based roles rather than legal executive because a firm looking for a legal exec needs the person to have some experience or if you see more junior legal exec roles apply for them!

Reach out to any firms on your area and just ask to see if you could get some experience for even a week or two … they may then know of someone and pass you along to them to work with and then you have that experience and make some connections and some work to put on your cv ! That’s how it worked for me anyway but I know it’s really not that easy especially now but don’t give up !

FE1Rookie

neon123 wrote: »

Surely there are easier ways to get temp cover rather than going through the motions of creating a fake TC? Also, if the worst case scenario did come to fruition then the firm would probably receive severe rebuke from the LS and risk damaging their reputation?

Well it's a way to get someone on 10.20 an hour to do the job of someone who's paid a lot more, on foot of a promise of proper training to become a solicitor which he hasn't gotten so far. Obviously this is a worst case scenario and a very glass half empty view of things but it's a dog eat dog world out there and I think he should watch out for himself in case of the worst happening.

No firm has to keep you on for 2 years once they sign the indentures. I've seen firms really **** over trainees before and heard of people ending up desperately needing the last few months of the 24 months and having to clamor for another firm to take over their indentures because they were left to the wayside by the first firm.

And I don't think the LS would do anything about it tbh.

TCPIP

FE1Rookie wrote: »

Anyone applied to Shields Sadlier here? Wondering what they're like to work for/interview for.

I have but haven't heard anything back yet. Have you?

SKLaw

FE1Rookie wrote: »

Anyone applied to Shields Sadlier here? Wondering what they're like to work for/interview for.

I have but haven’t heard anything from them

SKLaw

Lallers96 wrote: »

Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

I’ve been a legal sec for a small general practice and honestly, my work was both legal sec and what would normally be given to a trainee. They knew I was eventually going to go on to do a traineeship so they trusted me to do more trainee-like work. I feel like it is dependent on the firm and your mentor.

Do you think you could try to talk to the managing partner about this? Maybe ask that you can sit in during the meetings or do the court filings or assist one of them in court even? They were things I was able to do as a legal sec in a general practice so if I was able to do that, without a doubt you’re also able to do that especially because you’re a trainee.

Lallers96

Lallers96 wrote: »

Thanks for your detailed response. To give you a better view of things based on what you've said, I am manning the phones and I have yet to sit in on any client meetings, I have yet to go to court with a solicitor, I havent come close to preparing a brief, bar binding the brief haha.

Photocopying and scanning yes, and I understand you'll be doing that loads in any office related position so that makes sense however easy it is to do. I haven't drafted any legal documents yet or anything of the sort. Nearest thing I got was witnessing an already done will and serving summons to someone which wasn't a nice job at all but had to be done.

I agree with you and I will be continuing to look elsewhere in case they are pulling a fast one on me. But beggars can't be choosers either which sucks because I can barely afford the petrol it's costing me to work

I would suggest arranging a sit down with the managing partner and discussing how you are going to be trained. In a small practice it may not be feasible to do 6 months in rotation like in the larger firms, but you could even rotate on a weekly basis through departments.

They really should have a plan on what your training contract will comprise of. I don't care how big or small a firm is, if they are taking on a trainee then they need to have a plan in place as to how they will train the trainee.

You should be able to look at each week and say to yourself "I learnt X this week".

Remeber, this is your future you are talking about. Answering phones and photocopying will not skill you in how to be a solicitor. I would be willing to walk away if they weren't going to take it seriously.

awsah

able1 wrote: »

I would suggest arranging a sit down with the managing partner and discussing how you are going to be trained. In a small practice it may not be feasible to do 6 months in rotation like in the larger firms, but you could even rotate on a weekly basis through departments.

They really should have a plan on what your training contract will comprise of. I don't care how big or small a firm is, if they are taking on a trainee then they need to have a plan in place as to how they will train the trainee.

You should be able to look at each week and say to yourself "I learnt X this week".

Remeber, this is your future you are talking about. Answering phones and photocopying will not skill you in how to be a solicitor. I would be willing to walk away if they weren't going to take it seriously.

I would agree with this, what good is it to you to be fully qualified if all you have learnt is office admin, it won't help you in an interview for a solicitor position. I work in a small firm and I have to do some admin work but I am also being trained so that once I am qualified I will have done a lot of the work of a solicitor already. You won't last long as a solicitor in a company if you are going to need to be trained in basic skills.

I would definitely speak to the manager and say you don't mind helping out while ur one is gone on mat leave but you are a trainee solicitor and you expect to be given tasks that reflects that. If they can't accommodate you then at least you know now and you gave some time to look for another contact before october!

Lallers96

Yeah my only concern is that I'm being trained properly and when a day comes where no solicitors are in office, yet I'm still in doing nothing all day. It's just a waste of my time. Money isn't a concern for me as I could be earning more in a different line of work, I'm only willing to take the hit now on min wage in exchange for proper training.

I'll have to have a chat with my managing partner and ask for more work but obviously make it serious because I've asked until the cows come home and I don't get a lot. Maybe now that it's week 3 he will just pile on the work. I hope.

Fe1forthefun

Lallers96 wrote: »

Need to go on a bit of a rant before I shoot myself in the foot and say something I shouldn't to my managing partner.

Can someone who has began their TC, or previously done so, please tell me that this is normal. I'm about to finish my 2nd week in office training and I haven't done tap all to do with solicitor related work. All I've done is secretarial work which, I'm sorry, is a ridiculously boring job that I didn't sign up for. I wouldn't mind if I was given stuff to do and I'm constantly chasing every solicitor every day at multiple times in the day to help out but they don't give me much to do, if anything.

I've kept a record of what I've done and it's pathetic what I've learned so far. All I've done is file stuff online and go through a grubby old archive room, finding the odd document a solicitor needs but can't be bothered to look themselves for it. I've been moved around between 2 offices constantly and conveniently it's always to be there when one secretary is off that day. The "main office" that I'm in I'm literally sitting in the same desk as a secretary who's on maternity leave. All I really do is look at a handful of emails that come through, forward them onto the relevant solicitor and answer the occasional phone call if one of the other secretaries can't be bothered to answer it.

Because of how hard a TC is I'm going to just have to stick it out, but my gut is telling me that I'm being completely used by this company and I'm just minimum wage, cheap cover for a secretary that's on maternity and on some days where the 1 secretary in the 2nd office is on their day off. I'm actually scared that I'm being taken for a ride here and the moment the main secretary is back I'll be dumped by them and I'll be left still looking for a TC and have learned nothing.

I know it sounds so uppity but I didn't study law for 6 years to sit at a desk answering calls and reading about 5 emails in the day, praying for 5pm to come quicker. I hate the work I've been given so far, bar the odd odd job I've been given that seems somewhat solicitor related.

Does anyone have any experiences that were similar? Am I actually being taken for granted here, or am I just over thinking things?

I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.

Lallers96

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.

I'm doing everything you've said to do. Thankfully I've had a very good chat with my managing partner and I think he was able to read between the lines and realised I was worried. I don't see how my attitude stinks. I just want solicitor work piled on me so I'm not staring at a clock learning nothing :rolleyes:

FE1Rookie

Shes probably just freaked out, chill guys.

Fe1forthefun

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

I think this is fairly normal in the first few weeks of work. I wouldn't sweat it. Do every task you are given as best you can. Admin and secretarial work is something you will be doing your whole life to some extent. They don't know or trust you yet.

Positive attitude and volunteering to help with matters as they arise will go a long way.

You've been there literally 3 weeks, I think you are jumping to conclusions. Your attitude stinks a bit.

No, their attitude doesn’t stink. They were hired as a trainee solicitor and only seem to be given secretarial work to do. That’s not good enough.

I’ve worked for several years in legal support and solicitors do no admin or secretarial work. That type of work is left to the secretaries. Everything from filing to brief binding to photocopying to manning reception, all support staff and never trainee solicitors or fully qualified solicitors. They don’t have time for the admin stuff which is why they have support staff in the first place.

The poster is right to be concerned about the quality of the training contract they are getting. At least they’ve had a chat with the managing partner and hopefully things will improve.

john_fe12020

Has anyone heard anything back from Philip Lee regarding their TC? Applications closed almost three weeks ago

Aisbash

Anyone starting in Dublin in August looking for a roommate?

Lawlz

Hi all,

Can anyone please clarify if firms are OBLIGED to pay you while on PPC1 if fees are paid?

The TC starts 14 days AFTER PPC1 so I’m wondering what the story is while in Blackhall.

Also- has anyone come across a fees + stipend instead of wages situation?

FE1Hopefully1

Lawlz wrote: »

Hi all,

Can anyone please clarify if firms are OBLIGED to pay you while on PPC1 if fees are paid?

The TC starts 14 days AFTER PPC1 so I’m wondering what the story is while in Blackhall.

Technically yes i think they are obliged but a lot don’t because no on checks it

They are not obliged to pay your blackhall fees if they pay your fees then your wage can be reduced depending on how much if your fees they are paying

Lawlz

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Technically yes i think they are obliged but a lot don’t because no on checks it

They are not obliged to pay your blackhall fees

Thanks for your response.

I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.

awsah

Lawlz wrote: »

Thanks for your response.

I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.

There is something on the ppc1 application which shows how much you should be getting paid based on whether your fees are being paid or not, I think if fees are paid you should be getting about 240e/week while in blackhall

Have you checked to see if you qualify for a susi grant as you could put that towards your fees and ask the company to pay you more of a wage?

FE1Hopefully1

Lawlz wrote: »

Thanks for your response.

I seem to have a fees paid + stipend situation vs wages so I’m trying to figure out how common that is.

Where the PPC I course fees are paid by the training solicitor
75% of minimum wage (€7.65 per hour) for first third of the course (9 weeks)
80% of minimum wage (€8.16 per hour) for the second third of the course (10 weeks)
90% of minimum wage (€9.18 per hour) for the final portion of the course (10 weeks)
€7.65 x 30 hours = €229.50 per week
€8.16 x 30 hours = €244.80 per week
€9.18 x 30 hours = €275.40 per week


In smaller firms I’ve been told usually it’s one of the other they pay fees and no wage or pay wage and no fees

Lawlz

awsah wrote: »

There is something on the ppc1 application which shows how much you should be getting paid based on whether your fees are being paid or not, I think if fees are paid you should be getting about 240e/week while in blackhall

Have you checked to see if you qualify for a susi grant as you could put that towards your fees and ask the company to pay you more of a wage?

Ya I’ve seen both of those thanks!

I’m just wondering if anyone has a situ where they potentially won’t be paid during PPC1 because their TC starts after PPC1 and fees are paid.

FE1Hopefully1

Lawlz wrote: »

Ya I’ve seen both of those thanks!

I’m just wondering if anyone has a situ where they potentially won’t be paid during PPC1 because their TC starts after PPC1 and fees are paid.

Me tbh

Lawlz

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

Where the PPC I course fees are paid by the training solicitor
75% of minimum wage (€7.65 per hour) for first third of the course (9 weeks)
80% of minimum wage (€8.16 per hour) for the second third of the course (10 weeks)
90% of minimum wage (€9.18 per hour) for the final portion of the course (10 weeks)
€7.65 x 30 hours = €229.50 per week
€8.16 x 30 hours = €244.80 per week
€9.18 x 30 hours = €275.40 per week


In smaller firms I’ve been told usually it’s one of the other they pay fees and no wage or pay wage and no fees

Thanks.

I have that smaller firm situ of fees + stipend!

As long as it’s not completely unheard of/ off the charts then all is good!

Cheers

FE1Hopefully1

Lawlz wrote: »

Thanks.

I have that smaller firm situ of fees + stipend!

As long as it’s not completely unheard of/ off the charts then all is good!

Cheers

Yeah no I think it’s pretty common tbh !! Or I have been told it is anyway

fe14dewin

Anyone hear back from Philip Lee?

nicolesd

hey guys,

just preparing everything i need for the ppc1 application, i asked a solictor i used to work with for a character reference, she has agreed but asked me to draft it and she will sign it but can anyone let me know what i should write as i have no idea?

Wonderstruck

nicolesd wrote: »

hey guys,

just preparing everything i need for the ppc1 application, i asked a solictor i used to work with for a character reference, she has agreed but asked me to draft it and she will sign it but can anyone let me know what i should write as i have no idea?

Simply that you're honest and trustworthy and suitable to be a solicitor, you can dress it up a bit if you wish but that is fine.:D

Lallers96

There's a trainee solicitor position up in Kildare on legal vacancies

john_fe12020

fe14dewin wrote: »

Anyone hear back from Philip Lee?

Haven't heard anything yet, thought it was strange in the first place that they extended the application deadline due to "the large volume of applications received"...

fe14dewin

john_fe12020 wrote: »

Haven't heard anything yet, thought it was strange in the first place that they extended the application deadline due to "the large volume of applications received"...

That was odd alright - I applied at the begining of the year. They seemed to have been accepting rolling applications since January.

john_fe12020

fe14dewin wrote: »

That was odd alright - I applied at the begining of the year. They seemed to have been accepting rolling applications since January.

Around the same time as myself... I can only imagine with the much fewer amount of TC's going around this year that they had multiples of the amount of applications they expected! hopefully will hear soon

Lallers96

Going on week 5 here and still just being used as secretarial cover for 2 offices. Sick of it, but I have no choice when they say jump I say how high.

Is this normal for a trainee to be manning the phones like a main receptionist for over a month?

Bantz_Control

Lallers96 wrote: »

Going on week 5 here and still just being used as secretarial cover for 2 offices. Sick of it, but I have no choice when they say jump I say how high.

Is this normal for a trainee to be manning the phones like a main receptionist for over a month?

No it isn't, or at least that's not how it should be, and if anybody tells you otherwise, they're not being honest.