Law Firm Milkrounds 20/21

Wonderstruck

arubamuuu wrote: »

I'd like to know what others are doing as well.

At the moment I'm doing a springboard course on IT Administration. It's not law related and I doubt it'll help with getting a TC but I'm actually enjoying some of the classes. It's just 4 hours of live lectures a week (that are recorded so we can watch anytime we want) and then about 2-4 hours a week of doing some practicals/assignments.

That looks really interesting, I was planning to do a course like that myself but law stuff got in the way! I think Springboard is a really good scheme, I saw they were actually facilitating some courses on customs and eu law in this year's course listings.

Anon3ymous

Has anyone heard from Hayes yet?

caius97

Anon3ymous wrote: »

Has anyone heard from Hayes yet?

Nope...

lamacg95

Has anyone not heard from BW yet?

irishmisile

lawgrad15 wrote: »

So for all those here who haven't been offered TC's this round - what are your plans?

I'm not exactly sure what to do. I tried a few local solicitors for an unpaid work stint and most have declined, with covid-19 being the most cited reason.

I really ain't sure what to do next tbh. FE-1's done and complete. Just interested in hearing what others are going to do.

Cheers

Emigrating. For me it’s the most logical thing to do. There’s an over-saturation of law graduates seeking traineeships in the biggest firms. I’d rather move abroad to the UK, qualify there (better quality of life in London than in Dublin anyway) or Brussels for an EU job.

channing90

irishmisile wrote: »

Emigrating. For me it’s the most logical thing to do. There’s an over-saturation of law graduates seeking traineeships in the biggest firms. I’d rather move abroad to the UK, qualify there (better quality of life in London than in Dublin anyway) or Brussels for an EU job.

Is the competition not just as competitive in the uk right now? How hard is it to get a Legal job abroad In this current climate?

irishmisile

channing90 wrote: »

Is the competition not just as competitive in the uk right now? How hard is it to get a Legal job abroad In this current climate?

To address your first question: Everywhere has become more competitive this year due to coronavirus. However, London has way more traineeship opportunities proportionate Dublin regardless. I did the HEAR scheme in uni, the UK has similar access courses that reflect well on your CV. If you’re Irish Catholic, you are classed as a minority, too. Regardless of your view on affirmative action, this would improve your chances of getting on an interviewer’s shortlist. There’s just overall far more choice in London for trainee contracts. Of course there’s more applicants for each role, but an Irish uni education is very much sought after in the magic circle firms, I know of a few people from my uni who have gotten traineeships with Clifford Chance, Linklaters and Hogans who had sub 450 points in the LC and were 2:1 students throughout Uni. All of them I know through the law society committee. Irish students tend to be more involved in extra curricular uni stuff than GB students.


To address your second question: it’s not very hard at all. In fact, it’s probably easier now as everything can be done remotely so there’s no consideration necessary for travel costs and time spent travelling to central London for an in-person interview. Obviously covid has hit the profession hard, but if you’re an Irish graduate or are approaching a degree and are in good stead, it’s up to you how you good you make your application. Post-Brexit, I wouldn’t worry. The common travel area between our two islands will remain (confirmed by both Irish DFA and the Home Office), which means that free movement of workers won’t be impacted. Just research the top 10 London based firms, create an Excel sheet and list all of the application closing dates, ticking each one off at a time when you submit your application. I’ve spent €100s on the FE1s already but I’m not gonna worry - the process is flawed and I’ve witnessed barefaced nepotism in every single top 5 firm in Dublin. At least in London the firms are more objective.


I know London’s not for everyone but for me I’d have no issue living there. The cost of living makes more sense and there’s ample more things to do there than in Dublin.

A room in Vauxhall, Walthamstow, Ealing, etc. in a 3 bedroom house would set you back between £600-£750 pm, depending on needs, bills etc. Yet I’ve a friend living in Drumcrondra, (north !!!) Dublin who works in the Four Courts, paying €800 for a room in a 5 bedroom house! I’m tired of busting my balls for the Irish milkrounds for the last 3 years and not securing any trainee contract. I’ve been working a good legal professional role in a big four accountancy firm and have strong academics. I’m just not a 625 or 1:1 student l, or have been president of the law society whilst in college. I think I’m going to try London and see. This is just my view on it, not trying to start an argument with anyone who thinks Dublin is better than London.

AlexTG356

irishmisile wrote: »

To address your first question: Everywhere has become more competitive this year due to coronavirus. However, London has way more traineeship opportunities proportionate Dublin regardless. I did the HEAR scheme in uni, the UK has similar access courses that reflect well on your CV. If you’re Irish Catholic, you are classed as a minority, too. Regardless of your view on affirmative action, this would improve your chances of getting on an interviewer’s shortlist. There’s just overall far more choice in London for trainee contracts. Of course there’s more applicants for each role, but an Irish uni education is very much sought after in the magic circle firms, I know of a few people from my uni who have gotten traineeships with Clifford Chance, Linklaters and Hogans who had sub 450 points in the LC and were 2:1 students throughout Uni. All of them I know through the law society committee. Irish students tend to be more involved in extra curricular uni stuff than GB students.


To address your second question: it’s not very hard at all. In fact, it’s probably easier now as everything can be done remotely so there’s no consideration necessary for travel costs and time spent travelling to central London for an in-person interview. Obviously covid has hit the profession hard, but if you’re an Irish graduate or are approaching a degree and are in good stead, it’s up to you how you good you make your application. Post-Brexit, I wouldn’t worry. The common travel area between our two islands will remain (confirmed by both Irish DFA and the Home Office), which means that free movement of workers won’t be impacted. Just research the top 10 London based firms, create an Excel sheet and list all of the application closing dates, ticking each one off at a time when you submit your application. I’ve spent €100s on the FE1s already but I’m not gonna worry - the process is flawed and I’ve witnessed barefaced nepotism in every single top 5 firm in Dublin. At least in London the firms are more objective.


I know London’s not for everyone but for me I’d have no issue living there. The cost of living makes more sense and there’s ample more things to do there than in Dublin.

A room in Vauxhall, Walthamstow, Ealing, etc. in a 3 bedroom house would set you back between £600-£750 pm, depending on needs, bills etc. Yet I’ve a friend living in Drumcrondra, (north !!!) Dublin who works in the Four Courts, paying €800 for a room in a 5 bedroom house! I’m tired of busting my balls for the Irish milkrounds for the last 3 years and not securing any trainee contract. I’ve been working a good legal professional role in a big four accountancy firm and have strong academics. I’m just not a 625 or 1:1 student l, or have been president of the law society whilst in college. I think I’m going to try London and see. This is just my view on it, not trying to start an argument with anyone who thinks Dublin is better than London.

What extra exams do we have to do to be eligible to train in the UK? I have a law degree and I’ll hopefully have the FE1s finished soon enough, so what would I else would I have to do for the UK system? I am aware there’s been a recent overhaul, but I don’t know how it affects people with existing Irish qualifications.

irishmisile

AlexTG356 wrote: »

What extra exams do we have to do to be eligible to train in the UK? I have a law degree and I’ll hopefully have the FE1s finished soon enough, so what would I else would I have to do for the UK system? I am aware there’s been a recent overhaul, but I don’t know how it affects people with existing Irish qualifications.

Im not sure of the exact process for qualifying in the UK with an Irish law degree. You could easily research that yourself online. It won’t matter if you’ve done any FE1s I’d imagine if you were seeking a UK training contract. They would put you through the LPC and pay for the process. You wouldn’t need to do the GDL. From autumn 2021 there will be a new single exam that all prospective solicitors will take before qualifying. I don’t know much about this new format but I’d recommended researching it if you’re interested. Again, I’m not sure how this will affect people with Irish degrees but it definitely shouldn’t to a large extent

Wonderstruck

No way "Irish Catholic" is considered a "minority" group in London of all places are you for real like?

irishmisile

Wonderstruck wrote: »

No way "Irish Catholic" is considered a "minority" group in London of all places are you for real like?

Irish Catholic is literally a minority in London, in England and in the entire UK. I don’t know if they look at nationality and religion in a hierarchical way, i.e. more diversity points it you’re a certain minority religion and cultural background over another one, but it is definitely classed as a minority background.

channing90

irishmisile wrote: »

Im not sure of the exact process for qualifying in the UK with an Irish law degree. You could easily research that yourself online. It won’t matter if you’ve done any FE1s I’d imagine if you were seeking a UK training contract. They would put you through the LPC and pay for the process. You wouldn’t need to do the GDL. From autumn 2021 there will be a new single exam that all prospective solicitors will take before qualifying. I don’t know much about this new format but I’d recommended researching it if you’re interested. Again, I’m not sure how this will affect people with Irish degrees but it definitely shouldn’t to a large extent

From having a quick look at jobs in London I noticed that quite a few places nearly expected you to have the Lpc done before being taken on and it mentioned it as desirable. Pay also isn’t great unless your in the very big firms over there it seems, this is all from a brief look at it so don’t take it as gospel.

Wonderstruck

irishmisile wrote: »

Irish Catholic is literally a minority in London, in England and in the entire UK. I don’t know if they look at nationality and religion in a hierarchical way, i.e. more diversity points it you’re a certain minority religion and cultural background over another one, but it is definitely classed as a minority background.

Diversity points... I'm just looking at the comedy of emigrating to London (of all places on Earth) as a first generation Irish emigrant and then pleading being Irish as being super unusual and diverse :pac::pac::P though I agree there's loads of opportunities there most of the super high flyers I've met had no time for Dublin they were straight to London on graduation.

Anon3ymous

Has anyone heard back from Hayes yet?

caius97

Anon3ymous wrote: »

Has anyone heard back from Hayes yet?

No, I haven’t heard. I emailed a few days ago about it and didn’t get a response to that either.

lamacg95

caius97 wrote: »

No, I haven’t heard. I emailed a few days ago about it and didn’t get a response to that either.

I haven’t heard anything either..

the baby bull elephant

Anon3ymous wrote: »

Has anyone heard back from Hayes yet?

Also haven't heard, I suppose it's possible we're all dummies but probably a good sign no one has heard.

AlexTG356

Dechert PFOs are out.

lamacg95

Hayes second round interviews are out!

DDSHAY

I never got an email from Hayes. I assume I should be expecting a PFO. Were the second round offers sent by email?

tippertruck

Hi all. I have a question. I got a PFO from a firm having interviewed with them. Is it rude to then ask for feedback on my interview or is this something that can be regarded as appropriate?

lawgrad15

tippertruck wrote: »

Hi all. I have a question. I got a PFO from a firm having interviewed with them. Is it rude to then ask for feedback on my interview or is this something that can be regarded as appropriate?

Hi, I always ask for feedback after I do an interview. I also make the request ASAP after getting a PFO as it can take some time for the firm to get back with an available time to talk. My outlook is that the worst thing they can do is say no. By asking for feedback, it shows also that you are genuinely interested in working at the firm and that you want to improve. Some firms are way better than others at giving feedback. Some won't give feedback at all which is disappointing given the sheer amount of time it takes to submit an application and do an interview. So yes, do ask for feedback but don't be disheartened if they refuse to give it or if they give really tokenistic. Hope that helps.

lamacg95

DDSHAY wrote: »

I never got an email from Hayes. I assume I should be expecting a PFO. Were the second round offers sent by email?

Second round was sent by email

AlexTG356

tippertruck wrote: »

Hi all. I have a question. I got a PFO from a firm having interviewed with them. Is it rude to then ask for feedback on my interview or is this something that can be regarded as appropriate?

Ya go for it, worst thing they can do is ignore it or say that they don't have time. I've gotten feedback from firms that I've interviewed for and I feel that it's been really beneficial for the other interviews that I've done.

lamacg95

Does anyone else have a second round interview for Hayes?

jus_me

lamacg95 wrote: »

Does anyone else have a second round interview for Hayes?

I have, got the email today

law987

Thank you all for your company over the last few months! I'm going to take an offer with Dillon Eustace for 2023. If anyone wants advice on applications or interviews get onto me.

Hoping to finish the fe1s in March and then I'll have a gap year. Good luck to everyone!

Wonderboy2010

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone applied to Matheson's summer internship. How was the application process? Was the Watson Glaser test difficult? Also, my friend is currently a campus ambassador for Matheson. Would that make him more likely to get a summer internship with them?

nrnprcll

law987 wrote: »

Thank you all for your company over the last few months! I'm going to take an offer with Dillon Eustace for 2023. If anyone wants advice on applications or interviews get onto me.

Hoping to finish the fe1s in March and then I'll have a gap year. Good luck to everyone!

Hi,

I just saw that you accepted your offer with a law firm. I'm struggling quite a lot with even getting an interview for an internship. I was wondering if you had any tips regarding the application process?

Thanks

law987

I would say take your time with each application, each one took me hours and I kept it to one a day. Make sure you're answering each Q and have a decent amount written. This is your chance to sell yourself and convince them that you're worth their time to interview.

There's a few different areas that they will look at. Academics, relevant experience, other experience like part time jobs, extra curricular hobbies or sports and your actual writing as in your grammar and coherency. If you can stand out in even one or two of these areas you'll have a good chance. If not, take the time now to work on them. I had a 1st, two internships last summer, I've worked almost 10 different part time jobs over my time in college, often 2 or 3 at a time and was able to write about a sport and volunteering.

No experience is irrelevant. Think about how you can frame anything you've done in the past and why is it relevant to working in a law firm. Make the link.

Take the time to learn and research, not just the firms themselves, but how to go about the applications. There are a lot of YouTube videos about this, all UK based but it's the same process. Learn what commercial awareness actually means. It's understanding how firms make their money.

Finally, don't take rejections personally. Take them as a learning curve. I got interviews in most places I applied to, I think about 10 firms. But we've all had interviews that don't go well, just be ready for that Q in the next one. I ended up getting 3 offers.. Hayes still waiting on you(!) It's so competitive but there's no reason you shouldn't be successful. Best of luck.

Fe1forthefun

Quick question, do you have to start the hybrid in December? Just wondering because I saw a job advertised with a German company looking for a trainee solicitor, but I'm wondering how a trainee would be able to start the hybrid late?

From my reading of the job description, it seems that they expect the trainee to do the hybrid.

isabelnoonan

Has anyone had an interview with RDJ Dublin?

Wonderstruck

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

Quick question, do you have to start the hybrid in December? Just wondering because I saw a job advertised with a German company looking for a trainee solicitor, but I'm wondering how a trainee would be able to start the hybrid late?

From my reading of the job description, it seems that they expect the trainee to do the hybrid.

Yes people can start the hybrid late. They are expecting more people to join after the November exam results.

caius97

Hey guys - happy new year! Just jumping on here to see if anyone has any experience with Damien Tansey Solicitors? Was called for interview for the 8 January. Any advice appreciated

ciarocxcc

Congratulations! if you don't mind me asking when did they reach out to you about interview?

caius97

ciarocxcc wrote: »

Congratulations! if you don't mind me asking when did they reach out to you about interview?

Thank you! They called me on the 23rd

IgoPAP

irishmisile wrote: »

To address your first question: Everywhere has become more competitive this year due to coronavirus. However, London has way more traineeship opportunities proportionate Dublin regardless. I did the HEAR scheme in uni, the UK has similar access courses that reflect well on your CV. If you’re Irish Catholic, you are classed as a minority, too. Regardless of your view on affirmative action, this would improve your chances of getting on an interviewer’s shortlist. There’s just overall far more choice in London for trainee contracts. Of course there’s more applicants for each role, but an Irish uni education is very much sought after in the magic circle firms, I know of a few people from my uni who have gotten traineeships with Clifford Chance, Linklaters and Hogans who had sub 450 points in the LC and were 2:1 students throughout Uni. All of them I know through the law society committee. Irish students tend to be more involved in extra curricular uni stuff than GB students.


To address your second question: it’s not very hard at all. In fact, it’s probably easier now as everything can be done remotely so there’s no consideration necessary for travel costs and time spent travelling to central London for an in-person interview. Obviously covid has hit the profession hard, but if you’re an Irish graduate or are approaching a degree and are in good stead, it’s up to you how you good you make your application. Post-Brexit, I wouldn’t worry. The common travel area between our two islands will remain (confirmed by both Irish DFA and the Home Office), which means that free movement of workers won’t be impacted. Just research the top 10 London based firms, create an Excel sheet and list all of the application closing dates, ticking each one off at a time when you submit your application. I’ve spent €100s on the FE1s already but I’m not gonna worry - the process is flawed and I’ve witnessed barefaced nepotism in every single top 5 firm in Dublin. At least in London the firms are more objective.


I know London’s not for everyone but for me I’d have no issue living there. The cost of living makes more sense and there’s ample more things to do there than in Dublin.

A room in Vauxhall, Walthamstow, Ealing, etc. in a 3 bedroom house would set you back between £600-£750 pm, depending on needs, bills etc. Yet I’ve a friend living in Drumcrondra, (north !!!) Dublin who works in the Four Courts, paying €800 for a room in a 5 bedroom house! I’m tired of busting my balls for the Irish milkrounds for the last 3 years and not securing any trainee contract. I’ve been working a good legal professional role in a big four accountancy firm and have strong academics. I’m just not a 625 or 1:1 student l, or have been president of the law society whilst in college. I think I’m going to try London and see. This is just my view on it, not trying to start an argument with anyone who thinks Dublin is better than London.

This seems a bit naive. London is much more competitive than Dublin. If you're struggling with TCs at the big firms in Dublin, I'm not sure why it would be easier in London. It's another ballgame.

Rebelette288

caius97 wrote: »

Thank you! They called me on the 23rd

Congratulations well done!!Do you mind me asking do you have all your fe1s and would you have practical experience?My cousin applied there but he only has 7 fe1s and he wouldn't have much experience so was thinking that is why he was not called for interview

ciarocxcc

Rebelette288 wrote: »

Congratulations well done!!Do you mind me asking do you have all your fe1s and would you have practical experience?My cousin applied there but he only has 7 fe1s and he wouldn't have much experience so was thinking that is why he was not called for interview

I applied and didn't get called for interview. I have 8 fe1s, a decent amount of law firm experience and an LLM.

IgoPAP

Rebelette288 wrote: »

Congratulations well done!!Do you mind me asking do you have all your fe1s and would you have practical experience?My cousin applied there but he only has 7 fe1s and he wouldn't have much experience so was thinking that is why he was not called for interview

You don't need legal experience or indeed any Fe1s to get a TC.

caius97

Rebelette288 wrote: »

Congratulations well done!!Do you mind me asking do you have all your fe1s and would you have practical experience?My cousin applied there but he only has 7 fe1s and he wouldn't have much experience so was thinking that is why he was not called for interview

Hey, I don't have any FE1s (starting in March) but have a year of working as a legal assistant in Belfast where I'm from. Hope this helps?

caius97

IgoPAP wrote: »

You don't need legal experience or indeed any Fe1s to get a TC.

Just a practical question as I'm non-law grad, do I need to complete all 8 FE1s before commencing a TC? Sorry in advance if this is a silly question, I only started the process recently

IgoPAP

caius97 wrote: »

Just a practical question as I'm non-law grad, do I need to complete all 8 FE1s before commencing a TC? Sorry in advance if this is a silly question, I only started the process recently

Yes! But you can accept a TC before you finish your Fe1s if that makes sense. So, for instance, I've accepted a TC for 2024, which means I'll have to complete all my FE1s before that start date.

caius97

IgoPAP wrote: »

Yes! But you can accept a TC before you finish your Fe1s if that makes sense. So, for instance, I've accepted a TC for 2024, which means I'll have to complete all my FE1s before that start date.

Thanks so much and congrats on the TC offer! Do you have any tips for the interview process? I’m really hoping to get Damien Tansey as they do family law 😅 fingers crossed!

IgoPAP

caius97 wrote: »

Thanks so much and congrats on the TC offer! Do you have any tips for the interview process? I’m really hoping to get Damien Tansey as they do family law 😅 fingers crossed!

If you go back a couple pages there's been comments from successful candidates on what to prepare for, how to do well, etc.

Fe1forthefun

Anyone hear from DAC Beachcroft?

lawgrad15

Fe1forthefun wrote: »

Anyone hear from DAC Beachcroft?

No didn't hear anything yet from DAC Beachcroft.

I got an invite this morning to complete an online assessment of some sort for Kennedys. I didn't check it out yet as there is a week or so to complete it.

KateT1739

Did anyone hear back from the Fieldfisher HR interview?

Jeremiah25

Anyone know of any firms still hiring for the 2021 intake?

IgoPAP

Jeremiah25 wrote: »

Anyone know of any firms still hiring for the 2021 intake?

Not any of the big firms, no.