Teen with no priors gets 4 month suspended sentence for selling cannabis

turbot

Given the breadth of abuses and apathetic behaviours through sectors, it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-was-caught-with-92-cannabis-hidden-in-boxers-39534847.html

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

GreeBo

turbot wrote: »

especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

How is that at all relevant?

Mongfinder General

turbot wrote: »

Given the breadth of abuses and apathetic behaviours through sectors, it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-was-caught-with-92-cannabis-hidden-in-boxers-39534847.html

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

Intent to sell.

xckjoo

Ridiculous waste of time and money

you can only change things by starting today

dealers are scum.

"no priors" fcuk off.

Rodney Bathgate

Misleading thread title. From the linked article:

Judge Paula Murphy gave him a four-month suspended sentence.

You left out ‘suspended’ for some reason in your title and post.

dundalkfc10

turbot wrote: »

Given the breadth of abuses and apathetic behaviours through sectors, it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-was-caught-with-92-cannabis-hidden-in-boxers-39534847.html

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

He got a 4 month suspended sentence.

Ridiculous all the same

davetherave

turbot wrote: »

it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

That is irrelevant.

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

That is speculation.

Kimbot

turbot wrote: »

Given the breadth of abuses and apathetic behaviours through sectors, it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-was-caught-with-92-cannabis-hidden-in-boxers-39534847.html

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

In fairness, its a suspended sentence so he wont do jail time unless he commits another crime within a certain time frame. He had 2 deals worth 92 quid, if it was personal use would he not just have it as 1 single deal.

Cannibas should be like it is in Amsterdam, you can smoke if you want etc but more so I would like to see it legalised for its medicinal qualities so we might see more advances in relief for patients from it.

sabat

"Two deals worth €92"

Because scoring a '46 spot' is of course the standard for street deals, along with €67 bags of coke and pills for €11.43.

Kimbot

sabat wrote: »

"Two deals worth €92"

Because scoring a '46 spot' is of course the standard for street deals, along with €67 bags of coke and pills for €11.43.

A fifty to sell and a fifty for himself that he already smoked some of perhaps.

No priors meaning he's not been caught before.

Suspended sentence. FFS.

Eric Cartman

sabat wrote: »

"Two deals worth €92"

Because scoring a '46 spot' is of course the standard for street deals, along with €67 bags of coke and pills for €11.43.

Light bags :pac:

s1ippy

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Misleading thread title. From the linked article:



You left out ‘suspended’ for some reason in your title and post.

He still gets a conviction that will follow him throughout his life for an error of judgement made in his teens. There wouldn't be the same avenue for making that mistake if the sale of cannabis was regulated.

Rodney Bathgate

s1ippy wrote: »

He still gets a conviction that will follow him throughout his life for an error of judgement made in his teens. There wouldn't be the same avenue for making that mistake if the sale of cannabis was regulated.

Doesn’t take from the fact that the posters thread title and opening post are misleading.

I see that the original poster has thanked your post above, but unfortunately has not addressed the misleading information.

jam_mac_jam

It should be legalized. It's much less harmful then alcohol or cigarettes.

IAmTheReign

s1ippy wrote: »

There wouldn't be the same avenue for making that mistake if the sale of cannabis was regulated.

Talk about stating the obvious! You're right, if he hadn't been doing something illegal he wouldn't have been arrested and convicted, but he did and he was.

Whether you agree with the legalisation of cannabis or no the fact is the world and his mother knows selling it is illegal. No one forced him to break the law, he chose to do it knowing the potential punishment. Acting like this is some grave injustice is ridiculous.

James Brown

sabat wrote: »

"Two deals worth €92"

Because scoring a '46 spot' is of course the standard for street deals, along with €67 bags of coke and pills for €11.43.

Get you through Covid level 2.5

ollkiller

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Talk about stating the obvious! You're right, if he hadn't been doing something illegal he wouldn't have been arrested and convicted, but he did and he was.

Whether you agree with the legalisation of cannabis or no the fact is the world and his mother knows selling it is illegal. No one forced him to break the law, he chose to do it knowing the potential punishment. Acting like this is some grave injustice is ridiculous.

Point is having 92 Euro of cannabis shouldn't be illegal. Ever. But now he has a record which will prohibit him from a host of jobs. It's frankly ridiculous. You can freely walk into any pub(pre covid) and get a drug that is far more dangerous.

David McWilliams (I know some of ye hate him but he does have some good points) had a podcast recently where he said in 100 years time we look back at the war on drugs and wonder what the hell society was at. Hopefully it'll come sooner but I don't see it. People love to judge and make out cannabis smokers are destitute or all dealers or all layabouts when the vast majority hold decent jobs and like a joint at the weekend to relax. And it's more relaxing for a lot of people than alcohol. And minus the hangover too.

screamer

Was going to say excellent
Then I see suspended sentence so my only thought is fecking typical Ireland

4068ac1elhodqr

Isn't it true that far worse crimes, have received far less harsh sentencing.

Meanwhile, and slightly related, the folks over in the uk have announced a new crackdown on all burglars, theives and robbers.
They will now all be monitored 24/7 with GPS tags (constantly store and track all movements) when released, this a part of BoJo's new crime overhaul.
note: This would also include shoplifters.

Brings a new theme to covid track n' trace.

turbot

turbot wrote: »

Given the breadth of abuses and apathetic behaviours through sectors, it seems grossly disproportionate to give a 19 year old *with no priors* a 4 month sentence for possessing €92 of cannabis with intent to sell / supply - especially considering that in many other Western countries - cannabis is effectively decriminalised or legal:

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/teen-was-caught-with-92-cannabis-hidden-in-boxers-39534847.html

I wonder what kind of outcry there would be if equivalent sentences were awarded for all kinds of minor possession amongst Dublin's private schools? Seems crazy!

You forgot to mention it was a suspended sentence. No story here, move along

o1s1n

How do you even quantify 2 euro worth of cannabis as a dealer? Seems really odd.

'Hello Mr dealer, I will have exactly 92 euros worth of cannabis - no more, no less'

seamus

s1ippy wrote: »

He still gets a conviction that will follow him throughout his life

ollkiller wrote: »

But now he has a record which will prohibit him from a host of jobs.

The record will be effectively extinguished after seven years.

There are some circumstances where he will always have to declare the conviction - e.g. if he ever applies to become a Garda - but this will not automatically exclude him from getting in.

I agree that people have gotten off with the probation act for more serious offences, but we shouldn't overstate the impact of a conviction. This is not the US where you can be evicted or denied basic rights for having a conviction.

ollkiller

seamus wrote: »

The record will be effectively extinguished after seven years.

There are some circumstances where he will always have to declare the conviction - e.g. if he ever applies to become a Garda - but this will not automatically exclude him from getting in.

I agree that people have gotten off with the probation act for more serious offences, but we shouldn't overstate the impact of a conviction. This is not the US where you can be evicted or denied basic rights for having a conviction.

Good to know. Wasn't aware it goes after 7 years. Still ridiculous but at least that's something.

ollkiller

screamer wrote: »

Was going to say excellent
Then I see suspended sentence so my only thought is fecking typical Ireland

I have to ask but I'll probably regret it. Do you think a 19 year old should get a criminal record for having 92 Euro (even saying 92 Euro makes me laugh) worth of cannabis. Its probation act at best.

Chris_Heilong

So Drug Dealer gets 4 months for selling drugs.....good.

Truthvader

Do the crime; do the time.

It is teenagers who are out shooting and stabbing each other and petrol bombing houses of families to enforce gang control. About time some Judge somewhere started imposing some consequences.

Bikerman2019

A drug dealer is a drug dealer. Nothing more you can say.
He is a scummy idiot.

LollipopJimmy

sabat wrote: »

"Two deals worth €92"

Because scoring a '46 spot' is of course the standard for street deals, along with €67 bags of coke and pills for €11.43.

https://youtu.be/6i_XfgdNUUk

ollkiller

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If the law should be changed, then change it.

Do you think the the judge should fail to apply the law of the land, just because you think its a bit severe?

The guy was selling illegal drugs. Like it or lump it, thats what he was doing.

This 'its only cannabis' business, tell that to all the parents whose kids developed psychiatric illness from smoking weed.

First off the judge should have applied the probation act. He's hardly the next John Gilligan with his 92 Euro (how did they even come up with that figure, I'm still laughing at that).

Regarding psychiatric illness in a very small percentage of cases where the person already has a disposition for psychiatric illness it can bring it on more quickly. And the vast majority of cases it's where teenagers from any young age up to 18 or 19 smoke too much. If our government actually cared there would be a campaign to tell people if you're going to smoke it fine. But don't do it until you're at least 19 or 20. **** all hope of that though.

And still less harmful than alcohol. And btw FYI cannabis isn't the gateway drug. It's alcohol. Most people who try harder drugs are merry or drunk when they try them. Inhibitions down and all that.

How many times was he subject to jlo when under 18?

No previous but not entitled to either a caution or probation so had previous, just not criminal convictions. By 19. That's one year as an adult.

Was dealing, not just using.

It's suspended. Don't commit more crime, no jail at all. He effectively walked out of court before the prosecuting Garda.

ollkiller

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

A drug dealer is a drug dealer. Nothing more you can say.
He is a scummy idiot.

Nah. There's different types of drug dealers. There's the ones who get a bit, sell to their mates so they get it for free. And then there's c***s. I get that's it's easier to type them all the same. Not having a go btw.

ollkiller

ollkiller wrote: »

First off the judge should have applied the probation act. He's hardly the next John Gilligan with his 92 Euro (how did they even come up with that figure, I'm still laughing at that).

Regarding psychiatric illness in a very small percentage of cases where the person already has a disposition for psychiatric illness it can bring it on more quickly. And the vast majority of cases it's where teenagers from any young age up to 18 or 19 smoke too much. If our government actually cared there would be a campaign to tell people if you're going to smoke it fine. But don't do it until you're at least 19 or 20. **** all hope of that though.

And still less harmful than alcohol. And btw FYI cannabis isn't the gateway drug. It's alcohol. Most people who try harder drugs are merry or drunk when they try them. Inhibitions down and all that.

Can only do probation act once

ollkiller

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Can only do probation act once

I must be wrong so. Article said he had no prior convictions of any kind.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

you can only change things by starting today

dealers are scum.

"no priors" fcuk off.

I'll assume you don't go near pubs then?

And don't give me that "alcohol isn't dangerous" ****...

ollkiller

ollkiller wrote: »

I must be wrong so. Article said he had no prior convictions of any kind.

Because section 1.1 is specifically used to avoid giving someone a criminal conviction.

It's essentially a court warning which would come after a Garda warning / caution.

So by the time this lad got his 'first' actual conviction, he's been nailed 3 times

cursai

Probably had about 400 previous JLO cautions. And totally uncooperative

DangerScouse

Drug dealers are filthy scumbags. Pity he wasn't actually locked up for 4 months

Eduard Khil

Street value differs in each street though doesn't it.

Donald Trump

I don't know why people can't understand why there is a "2" in the 92.
I'd imagine that they have some formula/rules for determining values. Especially given that sentences would depend on the monetary value of the amounts siezed.

It would seem logical that they have whatever category, say based on purity/toxicity/content of a drug, then a price per gramme for that category and they multiply that by the amount seized. And that's the official "value". If they went in with a different figure then that sure people would be appealing on a technicality that they got convicted for 100 Euros worth or drugs when it was only 92 Euro using official rules.

Queasy Tadpole

Isaiah Slimy Canvas wrote: »

Isn't it true that far worse crimes, have received far less harsh sentencing.

Meanwhile, and slightly related, the folks over in the uk have announced a new crackdown on all burglars, theives and robbers.
They will now all be monitored 24/7 with GPS tags (constantly store and track all movements) when released, this a part of BoJo's new crime overhaul.
note: This would also include shoplifters.

Brings a new theme to covid track n' trace.

These types of criminals have one of, if not the highest rate of recidivism so these types of measures make complete sense.

It's a reactionary measure though, so if they do rob again they will get caught yet the robbery will still have happened.

The fact this young lad was up in court, convicted is a complete joke. It's 100% legal in Canada, in many states in the USA, practically legal in The Netherlands, Portugal and how many other countries.

Legalize it, tax it, take the money away from the criminal gangs.

boombang

I was thinking about the case in which a young man is reported to have beaten a homeless man to death with his bare hands over a phone. I think part of the reason we end up in situations like this is that earlier transgressions aren't dealt with and people go on to do more and more.

That said I don't think dealing cannabis is anything in comparison to the abundant violent and anti-social behaviour. Still if you don't want to do the (suspended) time, don't do the crime.

boombang

Maybe somebody will return to this thread in five years time after running a search for the terms

"Jordan Keogh" and "previous convictions" and we'll see if he makes the papers for any more offences.

Im melting away

Being from York st certainly didn't help him the guards valuations of all drugs are inflated, obviously he was running a while which wasn't said in open court.

Anyone have a guesstimate on how much it costs to prosecute someone for small amounts of weed.

It's ok everyone the war on illegal drugs has been won now, who's up for pints?

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't know why people can't understand why there is a "2" in the 92.
I'd imagine that they have some formula/rules for determining values. Especially given that sentences would depend on the monetary value of the amounts siezed.

It would seem logical that they have whatever category, say based on purity/toxicity/content of a drug, then a price per gramme for that category and they multiply that by the amount seized. And that's the official "value". If they went in with a different figure then that sure people would be appealing on a technicality that they got convicted for 100 Euros worth or drugs when it was only 92 Euro using official rules.

The forensic lab actually decides based on national and international statistics. The Gardai have no say.

Im melting away

Im melting away wrote: »

Being from York st certainly didn't help him the guards valuations of all drugs are inflated, obviously he was running a while which wasn't said in open court.

Anyone have a guesstimate on how much it costs to prosecute someone for small amounts of weed.

It's ok everyone the war on illegal drugs has been won now, who's up for pints?

Costs a lot to prosecute shoplifters too.

And Criminal damage.

And fraud.

Should we only run with profit making prosecution's? Ignore the murders and assaults and rapes to begin with then perform a cost analysis of everything else?

Im melting away

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Costs a lot to prosecute shoplifters too.

And Criminal damage.

And fraud.

Should we only run with profit making prosecution's? Ignore the murders and assaults and rapes to begin with then perform a cost analysis of everything else?

Have you a guesstimate for me guard in relation to small amounts of weed under a 100 quid?

Im melting away

Im melting away wrote: »

Have you a guesstimate for me guard in relation to small amounts of weed under a 100 quid?

Same as for 500 euro. Same for most district court offences. Again, should we ignore anything that's not profitable?

Judge, court services, prosecuting Garda and legal aid defence.

The biggest cost would be the court and judge who are there anyway. Second would be legal aid solicitor for the poor lad. Prosecuting Garda the cheapest (about 150 euro for his time) if he's on overtime. Otherwise he's working anyway.

Take away the defence and the rest are actually getting paid anyway case or no case.

The Oort Cloud

And then you see this crap below. Allowed walk free and I am sure this scumbag kid will not spend 1 day in prison.

A 16-YEAR-OLD boy held a knife against a taxi driver’s neck and threatened to “cut his head off” during a terrifying incident in Dublin, a court has heard.
The teenager was convicted of production of a knife as a weapon and threatening to kill or cause serious harm on 22 October 2018. He was also guilty of possessing a flick knife on a later date.
Judge Treasa Kelly described the incident today as “horrendous”, as she adjourned sentencing at the Dublin Children’s Court for the accused to complete an anger-management course.

The teenager, who was accompanied to court by his mother, remains on bail. The case resumes in November.

The justice system in Ireland needs to be sorted out. Insane, that 16 year old is still walking around and will no doubt do something again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/court-boy-threat-allegation-5206502-Sep2020/

Im melting away

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Same as for 500 euro. Same for most district court offences. Again, should we ignore anything that's not profitable?

Judge, court services, prosecuting Garda and legal aid defence.

The biggest cost would be the court and judge who are there anyway. Second would be legal aid solicitor for the poor lad. Prosecuting Garda the cheapest (about 150 euro for his time) if he's on overtime. Otherwise he's working anyway.

Take away the defence and the rest are actually getting paid anyway case or no case.

Thank you!

That's some gravy train, no wonder there's nothing about tolerance of cannabis, which would be less harmful than alcohol if it wasn't illegal and in criminal hands.

If you're conviction of possession for your own use, it expires after 7 years, is it the same for possession with intent to supply?