Unquiet graves RTE 1 tonight.....9.30pm

smurgen

McMurphy wrote: »

Just for anyone interested, RTE1 at 7pm tonight, Scannal will be about Holy Cross primary school in North Belfast, which was the target if loyalist picketers.

Will be worth tuning into.

Harrowing stuff.

https://twitter.com/PatrickMehone/status/1308494773590859777?s=19

FrancieBrady

Charlie speaks.

Actually I look forward to this, at least the issues now might get discussed where they should be front and centre, on our national broadcaster. Will Charlie regret shaking the tree?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/flanagan-letter-unquiet-graves-1084102?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1601540640

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Charlie speaks.

Actually I look forward to this, at least the issues now might get discussed where they should be front and centre, on our national broadcaster. Will Charlie regret shaking the tree?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/flanagan-letter-unquiet-graves-1084102?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1601540640

Where have I heard something like this before?

Let me think.............the Boston tapes.

Remind me again what you thought of their revelations?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Where have I heard something like this before?

Let me think.............the Boston tapes.

Remind me again what you thought of their revelations?

The Boston Tapes...allegations made by 'convicted criminals' that you and Charlie believed?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Boston Tapes...allegations made by 'convicted criminals' that you and Charlie believed?

Unlike you Francie, I haven't set out a position on these boards on both. You have.

You have trumpeted the Unquiet Graves documentary as if it is some irrefutable proof while at the same time you are on the record as damning the Boston tapes as the unsupported words of traitors. The hypocrisy is nauseating and disgusting.

I, on the other hand, see something in both. I see more in the Boston tapes, for a number of reasons, but I haven't dismissed this documentary out of hand.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Unlike you Francie, I haven't set out a position on these boards on both. You have.

You have trumpeted the Unquiet Graves documentary as if it is some irrefutable proof while at the same time you are on the record as damning the Boston tapes as the unsupported words of traitors. The hypocrisy is nauseating and disgusting.

I, on the other hand, see something in both. I see more in the Boston tapes, for a number of reasons, but I haven't dismissed this documentary out of hand.

No blanch...wrong again.

I have said of Unquiet Graves that it calls for an inquiry and accountability. I have ALWAYS referred to this as 'alleged British collusion' for a reason. Same as I have always said I don't know if the 'allegations' in the Boston tapes are true or not.

You on the other hand, on foot of the Boston Tapes and other 'allegations' believe Adams was a member of the IRA, was involved in Jean McConvilles death etc.

stockshares

Charlie Flanagan has written to RTE, disputing the account given by David Weir in the programme

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1311582624629039104?s=19

Quote
On Newstalk Breakfast this morning, Deputy Flanagan said he believes the programme was largely based on the testimony of RUC member and loyalist paramilitary John Weir.

“Essentially this is a programme, quite a shocking programme actually, outlining some of the most horrific acts of the Troubles in the 1970s that were perpetrated in what was known as the Murder Triangle,” he said.

“But it seemed to me that the essence of the programme was based on the testimony, an affidavit, of a guy called John Weir who himself was a convicted murderer, a criminal, who had motives that to my mind were somewhat dubious

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Unlike you Francie, I haven't set out a position on these boards on both. You have.

You have trumpeted the Unquiet Graves documentary as if it is some irrefutable proof while at the same time you are on the record as damning the Boston tapes as the unsupported words of traitors. The hypocrisy is nauseating and disgusting.

I, on the other hand, see something in both. I see more in the Boston tapes, for a number of reasons, but I haven't dismissed this documentary out of hand.

You may not realise it Blanch but when you chime in to change the topic it only serves to distract from any discussion on it. Just an FYI like.
While you may not have taken a position you are giving it the whatabout which is hardly supporting the documentary's content either.
If you see something in both maybe discuss the one the thread relates to?

James Brown

stockshares wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan has written to RTE, disputing the account given by David Weir in the programme

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1311582624629039104?s=19

Quote
On Newstalk Breakfast this morning, Deputy Flanagan said he believes the programme was largely based on the testimony of RUC member and loyalist paramilitary John Weir.

“Essentially this is a programme, quite a shocking programme actually, outlining some of the most horrific acts of the Troubles in the 1970s that were perpetrated in what was known as the Murder Triangle,” he said.

“But it seemed to me that the essence of the programme was based on the testimony, an affidavit, of a guy called John Weir who himself was a convicted murderer, a criminal, who had motives that to my mind were somewhat dubious

Flanagan is like the embarrassing old racist/facist uncle shouts out at random moments.

stockshares

Bowie wrote: »

Flanagan is like the embarrassing old racist/facist uncle shouts out at random moments.

Is he Irish at all?

Imaging wanting to commemorate the Tans and now this.

Muahahaha

Funny the way Flanagan has nothing to say about more than 120 innocent people killed in the murder triangle but he said he is concerned about how much the documentary cost to produce

https://twitter.com/JFForgotten/status/1306516158821150720

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

...

How does it feel that the bullshit narrative that you and your ilk have been parroting here on boards for years has crumbled into dust and been blown away on a gentle breeze of the truth?

How does it feel that SF are challenging FG for the top place at the table of Irish politics when you were predicting their electoral zenith a few years ago?

How does it feel for you that Irish Nationalism, having predicted its demise, is alive and well and has a whole new generation of young people who can immerse themselves in the truth of the conflict in the north via an uncontrolled digital media?

How does it feel that the media's decades-long project to rehabilitate the British state in the psyche of the Irish public has been torpedoed by that very state's shire of bastards in the Tory party?

How does it feel that the reality of partition is that it has been a patent failure and will continue to be a failure until it comes to an end?

What an utter disaster these last few years have been for you and your crypto-unionist ilk.

steddyeddy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Funny the way Flanagan has nothing to say about more than 120 innocent people killed in the murder triangle but he said he is concerned about how much the documentary cost to produce

https://twitter.com/JFForgotten/status/1306516158821150720

I thought that was a bit sick to be honest.

FTA69

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if Flanagan is being influenced by a different state. Either that or his brain is pickled with post-colonialism.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

How does it feel that the bullshit narrative that you and your ilk have been parroting here on boards for years has crumbled into dust and been blown away on a gentle breeze of the truth?

How does it feel that SF are challenging FG for the top place at the table of Irish politics when you were predicting their electoral zenith a few years ago?

How does it feel for you that Irish Nationalism, having predicted its demise, is alive and well and has a whole new generation of young people who can immerse themselves in the truth of the conflict in the north via an uncontrolled digital media?

How does it feel that the media's decades-long project to rehabilitate the British state in the psyche of the Irish public has been torpedoed by that very state's shire of bastards in the Tory party?

How does it feel that the reality of partition is that it has been a patent failure and will continue to be a failure until it comes to an end?

What an utter disaster these last few years have been for you and your crypto-unionist ilk.

The greatest irony of all Tom is that partition is now failing the British themselves. You could say that it will undo the entire Union before it's over.

How do they like dem apples?

stockshares

FTA69 wrote: »

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if Flanagan is being influenced by a different state. Either that or his brain is pickled with post-colonialism.

To think he was Minister of Defence.

political analyst

John Weir is a convicted sectarian murderer. Why are so many people willing to believe his school-massacre plot claim? If there was a shred of truth in that accusation, he would have said it before he stood trial over 20 years ago.

Justice for the Forgotten isn't doing itself any favours by allying itself with Gerry Adams.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The greatest irony of all Tom is that partition is now failing the British themselves. You could say that it will undo the entire Union before it's over.

How do they like dem apples?

I think Britain may well have had its EU deal long before now had the Irish Unionists not facilitated a massive act of self-harm on their so-called 'precious union'.

blanch152

stockshares wrote: »

Is he Irish at all?

Imaging wanting to commemorate the Tans and now this.

Doesn't is say it all about the fascistic nationalist tendencies of Sinn Fein that anyone who doesn't agree with them is not really Irish.

FrancieBrady

political analyst wrote: »

John Weir is a convicted sectarian murderer. Why are so many people willing to believe his school-massacre plot claim?

Because around the world this is what they engaged in. Frank Kitson, one of their senior military men here wrote the book on counter insurgency techniques.

That is why there is a willingness to believe claims like this. That doesn't make them true, but you would think the least any self respecting Irish person would want them fully investigated before attempting to shoot the messenger.

steddyeddy

blanch152 wrote: »

Doesn't is say it all about the fascistic nationalist tendencies of Sinn Fein that anyone who doesn't agree with them is not really Irish.

Well I don't agree with that comment. I lived in England and he was constantly referred to as anti-English there. That said, there's a big issue at stake here. Did the British government support terrorism and the destruction of innocent civilians to promote a political ideology.

steddyeddy

political analyst wrote: »

John Weir is a convicted sectarian murderer. Why are so many people willing to believe his school-massacre plot claim? If there was a shred of truth in that accusation, he would have said it before he stood trial over 20 years ago.

Justice for the Forgotten isn't doing itself any favours by allying itself with Gerry Adams.

He's also a former RUC officer. Also the same claims were made in the past by former RUC officer Billy McCaughey.

political analyst

steddyeddy wrote: »

He's also a former RUC officer. Also the same claims were made in the past by former RUC officer Billy McCaughey.

As far as I know, McCaughey made no claim of a school massacre plot. That claim is utterly bizarre.

The fact remains - Weir is a convicted murderer. There is no evidence to substantiate his claims.

political analyst

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because around the world this is what they engaged in. Frank Kitson, one of their senior military men here wrote the book on counter insurgency techniques.

That is why there is a willingness to believe claims like this. That doesn't make them true, but you would think the least any self respecting Irish person would want them fully investigated before attempting to shoot the messenger.

Weir deserves no sympathy whatsoever.

An investigation is ongoing. This article is from last February.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/families-of-glenanne-gang-victims-have-legal-and-moral-right-to-the-truth-38959291.html

The lead investigator of a review into the killings of the loyalist Glenanne Gang has said the victims' families have a "legal and moral right" to the truth.

Former Bedfordshire Police chief Jon Boutcher, who is also heading up three other Troubles probes, was speaking after the terms of reference for the review were agreed.

FTA69

political analyst wrote: »

John Weir is a convicted sectarian murderer. Why are so many people willing to believe his school-massacre plot claim? If there was a shred of truth in that accusation, he would have said it before he stood trial over 20 years ago.

Justice for the Forgotten isn't doing itself any favours by allying itself with Gerry Adams.

Gerry Adams is one of the only politicians from that time who actually said collusion was taking place while nearly every member of the political establishment in the south dismissed it as a conspiracy theory and wilfully ignored Irish citizens being murdered and collaborated with those agencies that were facilitating that murder.

Say what you like about Adams, he has far more credibility talking about collusion than nearly any other politician.

steddyeddy

political analyst wrote: »

As far as I know, McCaughey made no claim of a school massacre plot. That claim is utterly bizarre.

The fact remains - Weir is a convicted murderer. There is no evidence to substantiate his claims.

Well now you do. From the Belfast Telegraph. There's literally no such thing as a ridiculous claim in regards to the troubles.

"The plan was to shoot up a school in Belleeks," he said, which meant the murder of young children and teachers.

He said this was intended as retaliation for the Kingsmill massacre of January 1976 in which 10 Protestant workmen were shot dead by the IRA.

Weir claims the plot came from military intelligence to make the Troubles "spiral out of control" into a full civil war.

He said the attack was only called off because even the UVF's bloodthirsty leadership in Belfast considered it a step too far.

The same claims were made in the past by former RUC officer Billy McCaughey,

political analyst

FTA69 wrote: »

Gerry Adams is one of the only politicians from that time who actually said collusion was taking place while nearly every member of the political establishment in the south dismissed it as a conspiracy theory and wilfully ignored Irish citizens being murdered and collaborated with those agencies that were facilitating that murder.

Say what you like about Adams, he has far more credibility talking about collusion than nearly any other politician.

Why would senior British military personnel want to increase the level of violence in Northern Ireland anyway? It wouldn't be in the British government's interests to do that. Plotting such acts isn't the done thing at Sandhurst.

The death toll of the Troubles would've been far higher if the British Army had been withdrawn from Northern Ireland in the 1970s.

political analyst

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well now you do. From the Belfast Telegraph. There's literally no such thing as a ridiculous claim in regards to the troubles.

McCaughey - also a convicted sectarian murderer. The rank of sergeant is as far as RUC collusion went.

FTA69

blanch152 wrote: »

Doesn't is say it all about the fascistic nationalist tendencies of Sinn Fein that anyone who doesn't agree with them is not really Irish.

Oh give over. Nobody is really saying Flanagan isn’t Irish, they’re questioning his allegiance to Ireland considering he’s denigrating Irish citizens who have been murdered and has continually and constantly fawned over those who did the killing.

Your politics are very transparent blanch. I can respect people who are anti Republican as long as they’re somewhat consistent but all you ever have to peddle is the same unimaginative, boring, post colonial cringeworthy nonsense that has been found in every colonised country from Ireland to Algeria to Vietnam. Perhaps the only difference is you dress up your fawning as political ‘maturity’ when in fact you’re on a thread about a 120 murdered civilians making every excuse in the book for it.

The same type of people a hundred years ago would have been down in the police barracks informing to the Black and Tans. It’s absolutely pathetic stuff to be honest.

FTA69

political analyst wrote: »

McCaughey - also a convicted sectarian murderer. The rank of sergeant is as far as RUC collusion went.

Yeah that’s it, it was simply Billy the cop giving Sammy the UVF man the odd nod and a wink. What you’re saying regards collusion goes directly against what the Stevens Report has to say by the way, even the Brits themselves are admitting it went on in a systemic manner (albeit redacting huge parts of his findings) and here’s you parroting the same b*llocks that was being said in the 1980s.

The UDA’s director of intelligence, a man responsible for plotting and facilitating attacks, was a British agent for f*ck’s sake. These groups actually imported weapons from South Africa with the full knowledge of the authorities.

As for the British Army acting as some sort of peacekeeping force, you’re ignoring the context in which the northern state was founded - a sectarian militarised colony in which violence was inbuilt. The British Army was deployed “in aid of the civil power” ie the Stormont government it had nothing to do with ‘protecting Catholics’ or any of that canard.