Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

kalych

Since UB is the only local bank not participating in this initiative, is it another clue that the decision has already been taken and they're just trying to find a buyer for their portfolio?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-banks-club-together-with-new-digital-service-to-counter-revolut-threat-1.4455772

Timing belt

kalych wrote: »

Since UB is the only local bank not participating in this initiative, is it another clue that the decision has already been taken and they're just trying to find a buyer for their portfolio?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-banks-club-together-with-new-digital-service-to-counter-revolut-threat-1.4455772

you are probably correct.... I can't see the CCPC approving this app anyway as it is anti-competitive and would be an extra barrier for any bank to entering the Irish Market or a fintech company offering services. If they approve it then they are endorsing a oligopoly in the banking/fintech sector.

TempAc

kalych wrote: »

Since UB is the only local bank not participating in this initiative, is it another clue that the decision has already been taken and they're just trying to find a buyer for their portfolio?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-banks-club-together-with-new-digital-service-to-counter-revolut-threat-1.4455772

Lol, an IT project not just from one Irish bank, but multiple Irish banks together. I'm sure that will turn out great :rolleyes:

Or they could just implement SEPA Instant...

kalych

Timing belt wrote: »

you are probably correct.... I can't see the CCPC approving this app anyway as it is anti-competitive and would be an extra barrier for any bank to entering the Irish Market or a fintech company offering services. If they approve it then they are endorsing a oligopoly in the banking/fintech sector.

I generally don't see a point in it as China has just announced the digital Yuan and ECB are investigating similar options for the Euro. A digital Euro would effectively be a free EU-wide instant payment processing network. These banks are about 10 years too late to the party.

I only linked the article with reference to UB not participating though. Otherwise i fully agree with your assessment with regards to anti-competitiveness.

Unknownability

Timing belt wrote: »

you are probably correct.... I can't see the CCPC approving this app anyway as it is anti-competitive and would be an extra barrier for any bank to entering the Irish Market or a fintech company offering services. If they approve it then they are endorsing a oligopoly in the banking/fintech sector.

It states in the article that the software will be available to all financial institutions in Ireland just developed by the 4.

Timing belt

TempAc wrote: »

Lol, an IT project not just from one Irish bank, but multiple Irish banks together. I'm sure that will turn out great :rolleyes:

Or they could just implement SEPA Instant...

lol... it will probably be delivered 4 years late and at twice the cost... :P

On a serious note all they are doing is trying to put up barriers to ensure that they can charge higher prices.

As you say if they implemented SEPA Instant it solves a lot of the problems. It is a European payment scheme that the banks should be forced to adopt anyway to enable customers to move up to funds. I would see it as an essential service for any half decent customer proposition. It is what Revolute use for European payments and they use faster payments in the UK (which all the UK banks are signed up to)

Timing belt

Unknownability wrote: »

It states in the article that the software will be available to all financial institutions in Ireland just developed by the 4.

At what cost???

Are they not able to implement Sepa instant like the rest of Europe and stop trying to be bespoke so they can charge more...

They are small banks in the grand scheme of things and should be able to be flexible and adapt to change as they will have simpler systems unlike some of the big banks in Europe.

Yyhhuuu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm with KBC. Annual current account cost is €10 government levy.

Yes with KBC€2k per month must be lodged. They have no cashier. EBS offer a full banking service with a free current account with no conditions

garrettod

This new Irish banking app project reminds me of when European Banking was rolling out debit cards, largely linked to the Mastercard or Visa networks, so with international acceptance. For reasons that never made sense to me, Irish Banks decided to go and create their own debit card (the Laser card), with slower processing times, and the lack of any form of international acceptance, ability to transact in foreign currency etc. No doubt the Irish Banks spent a fortune rolling it out, and somebody's mate became a millionaire as a result of Laser cards being launched, and eh, where is it now?

kalych wrote: »

I generally don't see a point in it as China has just announced the digital Yuan and ECB are investigating similar options for the Euro. A digital Euro would effectively be a free EU-wide instant payment processing network. These banks are about 10 years too late to the party.

I only linked the article with reference to UB not participating though. Otherwise i fully agree with your assessment with regards to anti-competitiveness.

Did you consider that UB might not have signed up to the project, because they saw it as a waste of money, being introduced too late etc ?

The J Stands for Jay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm with KBC. Annual current account cost is €10 government levy.

Stop using ATMs and it'll be free.

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

Stop using ATMs and it'll be free.

Actually, forgot about the way the new levy works. Way less than €10 in that case. Rarely take out cash.

Who even uses cash these days. One does wonder, does one.

garrettod

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, forgot about the way the new levy works. Way less than €10 in that case. Rarely take out cash.

Who even uses cash these days. One does wonder, does one.

Assuming you can transfer from KBC to Revolut for free, you can withdraw €200pm free via the Revolut card.

That should be more than enough cash, for anyone that needs it.

garrettod

garrettod wrote: »

Assuming you can transfer from KBC to Revolut for free, you can withdraw €200pm free via the Revolut card.

That should be more than enough cash, for anyone that needs it.

I can, but don't you have to pay for the Revolut card

AlmightyCushion

garrettod wrote: »

Assuming you can transfer from KBC to Revolut for free, you can withdraw €200pm free via the Revolut card.

That should be more than enough cash, for anyone that needs it.

The levy applies to Revolut as well so there is no saving doing this. Only difference is Revolut charge for it at the time and KBC charge for it at the end of the year.

garrettod

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can, but don't you have to pay for the Revolut card

Ah, sorry, afraid you caught me sleeping, with regards to the stamp duty :redface:

JAMCAR

Sorry if this question was asked beforehand, but if the bank does close what will happen to the credit card customers. will that be taken over by another company or will it just be dissolved.

Quackster

JAMCAR wrote: »

Sorry if this question was asked beforehand, but if the bank does close what will happen to the credit card customers. will that be taken over by another company or will it just be dissolved.

Either is possible but one would expect the credit card business to be pretty sellable.

kalych

garrettod wrote: »

Did you consider that UB might not have signed up to the project, because they saw it as a waste of money, being introduced too late etc ?

Not after i read this:
"Ulster Bank, which is not a founding member but was known to have been involved in initial discussions about the plan, “hope to join the scheme at a later date”, a spokeswoman for the lender said."
As per:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-banks-select-italian-fintech-sia-to-develop-app-to-rival-revolut-1.4456721

If they thought it was a waste of money they would not have been involved at the start and then pulled out. Seems like they just didn't want to commit to the capital spend required.
But obviously none of us know for sure apart from UB and NATWEST heads.

Claw Hammer

The writing is on the wall. Nobody who has any intentions of even the possibility of continuing a business will allow speculation of its impending closure to continue for so long.
They have rebranded in Northern Ireland leaving the South sticking out like a sore thumb. It is only a question of when they were close, not if.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They have rebranded in Northern Ireland leaving the South sticking out like a sore thumb. It is only a question of when they were close, not if.

Rebranded to what? PS, no they haven’t rebranded to anything in NI.

Timing belt

Mungret Native wrote: »

Rebranded to what? PS, no they haven’t rebranded to anything in NI.

I think he is talking about the legal entity Change where Ulster NI became part of the Natwest PLC legal entity.

https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/market/LSE20201112174422_3779261/Proposed-transfer-of-Ulster-Bank-Limited-business

Davexirl

Mungret Native wrote: »

Rebranded to what? PS, no they haven’t rebranded to anything in NI.

There is a planned change from Ulster Bank NI to Nat West.

Timing belt

Davexirl wrote: »

There is a planned change from Ulster Bank NI to Nat West.

I thought it was a legal entity change in the background to save costs and they would continue with the Ulster Bank NI Brand.

Doodah7

Timing belt wrote: »

I thought it was a legal entity change in the background to save costs and they would continue with the Ulster Bank NI Brand.

For the present. I would assume that in future years due to 'synergies' and other cost-cutting reasons, that the UB name will fade away to be replaced by the Nat West name.

For starters, the Nat West chevron will be returning and replacing the RBS logo.

Doodah7

Phishnet wrote: »

RBS has not covered itself in glory with all the historical issues that it was involved in, ie, rigging the interbank rates, commodities markets, forex etc. The Bank was even hit with a legal bill of 100 million stg by a law firm regarding defending a legal action taken against it by its own shareholders. The various regulatory authorities around the world have fined RBS 100’s of millions of euro, so it has a lot of issues and has decided to dump that branding for a less internationally tarnished name, that being Nat West.

And the pure waste in money and resources moving from NatWest to RBS and now back again...

JTMan

Sunday Times reports here (paywall):

- Exploratory discussions have been held with AIB, Bank of Ireland and other Irish lenders, about purchasing Ulster's performing loan book.
- Natwest have said "We continue to evaluate the impact of Covid-19 and the challenges to the economy, and we are reviewing our strategy appropriately and responsibly in light of these events". Another hint that they are going?
- Unable to confirm if a decision on Ulster Bank’s future would be made before its 2020 results are announced on February 19.

Claw Hammer

The irony is that no one wants the deposits. It might suit the other banks to buy the loan book as they will reduce their own deposits, saving themselves from having to pay the ECB to hold their cash. There can be no doubt that they are going to pull out.

garrettod

Jim2007 wrote: »

It would be mad for anyone to consider buying it! Buying more capacity in a commodity market where there already is over capacity would be crazy.

Of course we’re talking about geniuses who constructed a financial product where the funding and the lending weren’t matched.... so anything is possible.

If you are referring to the mismatch between short term funding - sourced from peoples savings accounts, and the credit balances in their current accounts - and the provision of long term mortgages, to help people buy their homes - then yes, it is genius.

I think you'll find its been a concept that's been on the go, for a couple of hundred years, dating back to when goldsmiths began lending.

Ultimately, its based on a principal of trust in a Bank, a principal that's supported by most "Western World" based, Central Banks. That's why we see things like deposit guarantee schemes, and Central Banks providing loans to Banks, when needed.

Jim2007

garrettod wrote: »

If you are referring to the mismatch between short term funding - sourced from peoples savings accounts, and the credit balances in their current accounts - and the provision of long term mortgages, to help people buy their homes - then yes, it is genius.

I think you'll find its been a concept that's been on the go, for a couple of hundred years, dating back to when goldsmiths began lending.

Ultimately, its based on a principal of trust in a Bank, a principal that's supported by most "Western World" based, Central Banks. That's why we see things like deposit guarantee schemes, and Central Banks providing loans to Banks, when needed.

I have no idea where you are coming from... put having been involved in the construction for various financial products over the past 30 years, I am of the opinion the two most shocking failures of management during the last crisis were the failures of Irish banks to correctly construct their mortgage products and the inclusion of MBS in the capital structure of banks like DB, CS & UBS. It had serious consequences for all the banks involved. Nothing criminal to my knowledge, just ‘group think’ taken to the extreme.

Have we learned from it? No not really... Banks have been required to up the T1 a bit, but they are still probably only half what they should be! Swiss regulators forced a little bit of restructuring on their banks and DB, well it is still a wobbly.

Timing belt

Jim2007 wrote: »

I have no idea where you are coming from... put having been involved in the construction for various financial products over the past 30 years, I am of the opinion the two most shocking failures of management during the last crisis were the failures of Irish banks to correctly construct their mortgage products and the inclusion of MBS in the capital structure of banks like DB, CS & UBS. It had serious consequences for all the banks involved. Nothing criminal to my knowledge, just ‘group think’ taken to the extreme.

Have we learned from it? No not really... Banks have been required to up the T1 a bit, but they are still probably only half what they should be! Swiss regulators forced a little bit of restructuring on their banks and DB, well it is still a wobbly.

In fairness regulation has changed massively with banks having to hold way more capital and liquidity. On top of this there is MREL and bank resolution plans..... It is a lot more than topping up 'T1 a bit'