Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

Jim2007

Timing belt wrote: »

In fairness regulation has changed massively with banks having to hold way more capital and liquidity. On top of this there is MREL and bank resolution plans..... It is a lot more than topping up 'T1 a bit'

Yep, just like the massive regulations changes after every previous crisis that was supposed to prevent the next one...

Timing belt

Jim2007 wrote: »

Yep, just like the massive regulations changes after every previous crisis that was supposed to prevent the next one...

The simple fact is your post implied that that all that changed was the banks holding onto a bit of extra T1 which is not the case as a raft of regulatory changes took place to prevent a similar situation occurring again. Without these changes a bank or two would probably already have gone under during the covid crisis.

The J Stands for Jay

Jim2007 wrote: »

Yep, just like the massive regulations changes after every previous crisis that was supposed to prevent the next one...

Financial services are pretty smart. New ways of having a crisis are constantly thought up (even if sometimes they're just variations on previous ones).

Jim2007

Phishnet wrote: »

I totally agree, financial regulation is there to protect, both consumers and the financial institutions themselves. It was their reckless lending that led to the disaster of 2008, plain and simple.

There is no such concept, nor should there be. People need to take responsibility for their actions and learn from it. And simple blaming someone else is not doing that. Either nobody acted recklessly or everyone did.

The lender and the borrower entered into the transaction based on a property valuation that they both believe to be reasonable accurate. And that valuation was provided by a professional who based it on the going market rates in the area. Nobody had a cunning plan, it is just what happens in every single crash.

This forum is about personal finance not public policy, macro economics nor conspiracy theories. There are other forums for that and we are heading off in that direction and I will no allow it.

If people wish to discuss how the potential closure would impact their personal finances or how they might better protect themselves in the next financial crisis, fine. Anything else from here out will not fly.

JTMan

The Irish Times are reporting that PTSB might acquire the Ulster Bank SME loans from NatWest.

Announcement on the future of Ulster Bank might occur on 19 February.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ptsb-circles-ulster-bank-sme-business-as-decision-looms-1.4470442?mode=amp

Timing belt

JTMan wrote: »

The Irish Times are reporting that PTSB might acquire the Ulster Bank SME loans from NatWest.

Announcement on the future of Ulster Bank might occur on 19 February.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ptsb-circles-ulster-bank-sme-business-as-decision-looms-1.4470442?mode=amp

That would make sense.. the announcement the same day as annual results published.

JTMan

Examiner reporting that Davy's and GoodBody are now both saying the writing is on the wall ...

- Goodbody financials analyst Eamonn Hughes said all the signs were pointing in the direction that the NatWest owner will run down the bank's operations.
- Davy thinks Ulster will exit.

Claw Hammer

JTMan wrote: »

Examiner reporting that Davy's and GoodBody are now both saying the writing is on the wall ...

- Goodbody financials analyst Eamonn Hughes said all the signs were pointing in the direction that the NatWest owner will run down the bank's operations.
- Davy thinks Ulster will exit.

There are only saying what the dogs in the street have known for months.

Islander13

All you needed to do was to walk into Ulster Bank - College Green at any time over the past 2/3 years. Zero investment in the building which should be their flagship location

Shame for all the staff

Claw Hammer

Islander13 wrote: »

All you needed to do was to walk into Ulster Ban - College Green at any time over the past 2/3 years. Zero investment in the building which should be their flagship location

Shame for all the staff

It's been very bad in there since the Scots born into that bank. First thing I noticed was that the pens on the counter didn't work. The staff dress code went down a notch or two as well.

Timing belt

Claw Hammer wrote: »

For several years now I have been of the view that Ulster Bank does not want customers. The level of service has dropped to a very low point

Ironically this is what happens when you cut costs to try and make the bank profitable enough to be kept by its parent bank.

Claw Hammer

Timing belt wrote: »

Ironically this is what happens when you cut costs to try and make the bank profitable enough to be kept by its parent bank.

It is what happens when you try to meet stupid class deadlines at the expense of customer service. If there are no customers there would be no profits.

Islander13

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It's been very bad in there since the Scots born into that bank. First thing I noticed was that the pens on the counter didn't work. The staff dress code went down a notch or two as well.

Yeah, and it feels like a ghost building, where there used to be a busy section near suffolk street too.

I know branches arent what they used to be but compare to AIB on Grafton St - chalk and cheese

Timing belt

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is what happens when you try to meet stupid class deadlines at the expense of customer service. If there are no customers there would be no profits.

It might have something to do with the fact that Ulster Bank took massive risks before 08 and ended up a basket case ever since.... Add on top of that banks will not make much of a profit for the next 5 years due to low interest rates... This is one of the first banks to exit which will become common in Europe as we see a mass consolidation due to the banking environment.... Not much to do with class deadlines in fairness.

garrettod

Timing belt wrote: »

It might have something to do with the fact that Ulster Bank took massive risks before 08 and ended up a basket case ever since.... Add on top of that banks will not make much of a profit for the next 5 years due to low interest rates... This is one of the first banks to exit which will become common in Europe as we see a mass consolidation due to the banking environment.... Not much to do with class deadlines in fairness.

Every bank took massive risks befit 2008, maybe if UB had participated in the same deal as the other Irish retail banks, and sold billions of rubbish debt to NAMA, they would be in better shape.

I know that their parent company took in investment from the UK Government, but the benefit of that didn't flow to UB, to the same extent that Irish Government / NAMA support benefited AIB, for example.

JTMan

Islander13 wrote: »

All you needed to do was to walk into Ulster Bank - College Green at any time over the past 2/3 years. Zero investment in the building which should be their flagship location

Yeah, their College Green branch is like something from another era but most bank branches give a similar vibe.

Ulster Bank are in the process of renovating their Grafton Street branch at the moment. Money down the drain with closure seemingly imminent.

Claw Hammer

Timing belt wrote: »

It might have something to do with the fact that Ulster Bank took massive risks before 08 and ended up a basket case ever since.... Add on top of that banks will not make much of a profit for the next 5 years due to low interest rates... This is one of the first banks to exit which will become common in Europe as we see a mass consolidation due to the banking environment.... Not much to do with class deadlines in fairness.

Even before 08, the slide had started.

silver2020

garrettod wrote: »

Every bank took massive risks befit 2008, maybe if UB had participated in the same deal as the other Irish retail banks, and sold billions of rubbish debt to NAMA, they would be in better shape.

I know that their parent company took in investment from the UK Government, but the benefit of that didn't flow to UB, to the same extent that Irish Government / NAMA support benefited AIB, for example.

Benefit didn't flow to UB? - are you serious?

Ulster Bank got a £15 BILLION (sterling) bailout from UK taxpayers and still owes about £11 Billion of this.

AIB have paid back majority of their depositors bailout and Bank of Ireland have fully repaid its depositors bailout including all interest.


Put it this way, if there was a league table of bank write offs it would have Ulster in 2nd place ahead of Irish Nationwide and not a million miles from Anglo.

Timing belt

garrettod wrote: »

Every bank took massive risks befit 2008, maybe if UB had participated in the same deal as the other Irish retail banks, and sold billions of rubbish debt to NAMA, they would be in better shape.

I know that their parent company took in investment from the UK Government, but the benefit of that didn't flow to UB, to the same extent that Irish Government / NAMA support benefited AIB, for example.

In fairness UB on it's own could have taken down Natwest/RBS there was that amount of reckless lending undertaken at the time. It was up there with Anglo for risk taking.

If i remember correctly 1/3 of the bailout that RBS got from UK government went directly to Ulster bank despite it only being a little subsidiary of RBS at the time.

silver2020

Timing belt wrote: »

In fairness UB on it's own could have taken down Natwest/RBS there was that amount of reckless lending undertaken at the time. It was up there with Anglo for risk taking.

If i remember correctly 1/3 of the bailout that RBS got from UK government went directly to Ulster bank despite it only being a little subsidiary of RBS at the time.

correct - Natwest got 45bn stg and over 15bn went to Ulster. Another portion went on Irish investors who bought into UK market and their loans came under Natwest/RBS. One retired banker suggests that over 20bn stg was attributed to Ulster and Ulster referrals and there's no chance of that money being recovered

Jim2007

The topic is personal finance: How the situation impacts your financial situation, not the fortunes of UB. This thread has run its course. Either back on topic of we call it a day

Q&A

Jim2007 wrote: »

The topic is personal finance: How the situation impacts your financial situation, not the fortunes of UB. This thread has run its course. Either back on topic of we call it a day

Personally the impact on me is based on exposure to the bank (current account, some meager savings and a mortgage) and the likelihood of it closing. They're both connected with the latter likely to be based on the fortunes of the bank.

With expectations of a decision on the 19th with the publication of the annual accounts its hard not to speculate on Nat Wests thinking. If, like some are suggesting, they announce the planned closure of UB rest assured this thread will only just have begun.

phormium

I'm wondering what would happen to the offset mortgages, they are linked with a savings/current account and that's the whole point of them for interest saving reasons. If they sell off the mortgages separately and deposit customers have to go elsewhere what happens the offsetting arrangement?

I have one of these obviously which is why I am wondering.

Q&A

phormium wrote: »

I'm wondering what would happen to the offset mortgages, they are linked with a savings/current account and that's the whole point of them for interest saving reasons. If they sell off the mortgages separately and deposit customers have to go elsewhere what happens the offsetting arrangement?

I have one of these obviously which is why I am wondering.

My guess is such loans would be carved out of the loan book and retained. It could easily be run out of a UK office.

You might run into a problem lodging a cheque mind you.

JTMan

Irish Times reporting here (paywall) that Ulster Bank staff are "furious" about being kept in the dark about Ulster Banks future.

The article repeats the speculation that the Ulster Bank decision will be announced on 19 February.

i have a small account with ulster.....how will it closing impact my deposit (havnt any loans,direct debits etc)


I assume theres some law to stop them walking away with it all??

JTMan

Deleted User wrote: »

i have a small account with ulster.....how will it closing impact my deposit

You will be given X months to move your deposits to another bank.

Ulsterbank have been continually updating their banking App for Android and iPhone. It's possibly the best of all the Irish banks. Only AIB comes near it.
Is the app and it's ongoing development coming from NatWest's own app and development is therefore the same. It's just I can't imagine them putting so much development into something if they have plans to close down. They just released a new update that now allows push notification on transactions.
All will be revealed in 15 days.

Claw Hammer

Deleted User wrote: »

Ulsterbank have been continually updating their banking App for Android and iPhone. It's possibly the best of all the Irish banks. Only AIB comes near it.
Is the app and it's ongoing development coming from NatWest's own app and development is therefore the same. It's just I can't imagine them putting so much development into something if they have plans to close down. They just released a new update that now allows push notification on transactions.
All will be revealed in 15 days.

The developments costs of an app won't figure in the minds of NAT West. the work was probably a cog of what they were doing in England anyway. If the had any intention of keeping Ulster going they wouldn't allow speculation to go on for months nor begin the re-branding of the Northern Irealnd element of the business.

muddle84

JTMan wrote: »

You will be given X months to move your deposits to another bank.

Will this be the same for mortgages and credit cards also? X-number of months to move mortgages and credit card?