€22.5m settlement for boy with brain damage

beerguts

This isn't going to be a popular opinion but I feel this is a very excessive settlement award. The boy was not diagnosed with meningitis after birth and now has brain damage due to the medical negligence.I have no issue with compensation to cover the care for the lad over the course of his life but that could never amount to over €22 million euro.

Is their any safeguards to the state in this award that if he was to die early in life that the sum remaining would be reclaimed by the state. I don't think the parents should be entitled to any large sum that remained in this senario.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0917/1165723-settlement/

NIMAN

I agree it seems a lot in comparison to other awards you hear mentioned, but it's hard to put a price on what it will cost to look after this child for the rest of his life.

I'm sure the judge considered all this in his award amount.

I'm sure the parents would hand the money back to have their child not brain damaged.

TheRiverman

I'm sure the Judge took into consideration the way the hospital put the parents through torture, by not admitting responsibility back in 2012. How many times have we seen this over the years ? Perhaps we would see smaller settlements if they admitted they were wrong from the start.Parents having the strees and sadness of a handicapped child as well as dealing with years of legally battling the hospital must be awful.

Augme

beerguts wrote: »

Is their any safeguards to the state in this award that if he was to die early in life that the sum remaining would be reclaimed by the state. I don't think the parents should be entitled to any large sum that remained in this senario.

Yea, because obviously if the kid dies early in life it will have been no fault of the HSE so the parents should be forced to give the money back as they haven't suffered at all in that scenario....

Geuze

Quick point - one reason for the high awards is very low interest rates.

A higher lump-sum must be awarded to meet annual payments into the future, if interest rates are lower.


The same challenge faces pension funds - very low long-term interest rates.

Geuze

Another point - given that social care is available from the HSE, financed by taxes, why the need for the award?

I think I know the answer, but would like it confirmed.


It is that Judges have agreed that private care is allowed in the award, so the award must be big enough to pay for private social care.

kowloon

beerguts wrote: »

Is their any safeguards to the state in this award that if he was to die early in life that the sum remaining would be reclaimed by the state. I don't think the parents should be entitled to any large sum that remained in this senario.

I'd pity the poor fecker tasked with turning up at the home of the grieving parents to reclaim that money.

kippy

Geuze wrote: »

Another point - given that social care is available from the HSE, financed by taxes, why the need for the award?

I think I know the answer, but would like it confirmed.


It is that Judges have agreed that private care is allowed in the award, so the award must be big enough to pay for private social care.

The child will have needs long after the parents have grown old and dies. This is not cheap.
Parents are in an awful situation and I don't think any amount of money can make that right.

Unicorn55

€22,000,000 / 80 years of his life / 8,760 hours in a year = €31/hour?

Not excessive at all if he will need round the clock care for the rest of his life.

Geuze

Surely the HSE will be paying for social care anyways?

kippy

Geuze wrote: »

Surely the HSE will be paying for social care anyways?

Hard to know how much they would cover. I don't have experience with that type of thing thankfully, but I suspect full time care in the individuals home isn't always by the HSE. And again things get more complicated as the years go on....
To be blunt about it, if you were in the parents shoes, would your experiences with the HSE to this point give you any confidence in their ability to mind you son for the rest of his days?

beerguts

Augme wrote: »

Yea, because obviously if the kid dies early in life it will have been no fault of the HSE so the parents should be forced to give the money back as they haven't suffered at all in that scenario....

I agree that the parents have suffered but would you be happy if the money was in a trust for the lads medical and emotional needs during his natural life and any funds remaining should be reimbursed to the state.

Airyfairy12

Regardless of settlements negligent doctors should be held accountable. I know mistakes happen and things can be missed but in circumstances like this it's just not good enough.

AllForIt

Unicorn55 wrote: »

€22,000,000 / 80 years of his life / 8,760 hours in a year = €31/hour?

Not excessive at all if he will need round the clock care for the rest of his life.

If the boy has brain damage surely there's no hope of him living anywhere near as long as 80 years.

I understand the lost term costs to care for someone but I still think 22.5 million is at least 50% more than it should be.

simongurnick

Depends what the settlement is for. Imagine it isnt simply for the cost of care. There is also pain and suffering and the amount also needs to provide accountability to the hospital.
Even if this child only lives until he is 30, the cost of care is astronomical. Two of my kids are medically fragile and needed round the clock medical supervision for about 7 years. I'm not in ireland but I know public wouldn't cover it all and a private agency will charge double the hourly rate for a home nurse to include all their admin costs and some profit. That doesn't even count the therapists (multiple) this kid will need and all the medical supplies and equipment.

Immortal Starlight

No amount of money will ever make up for the quality of life this little boy is missing out on. He deserves every single last cent.

lawrencesummers

Does that 22 million come out of the medical budget this year?

How many cut backs will there be this year because of that money not being available, or how much better a health system would it be with an additional 22 million. How many nurses and doctors does 22 million pay for?

How many settlements were made 8 years ago that reduced the ability of the HSE to be adequately staffed when that child was born?

The parents are entitled to an apology, the child is entitled to have his needs met because of that error.

There is barely a week that goes by Without hearing about someone getting a huge settlement from the HSE. Have we reached a situation yet where the annual claims equal the actual HSE budget? Somebody needs to look at the total amount of compensation the HSE has had to pay out and make those figures public.

it would get you to thinking how much better a system that would create situations like this less frequently if that money was actually spent within the system.

A vicious circle me thinks.


And special mention to the legal profession. Who no doubt took a massive chunk and made the parents wait 8 years for this. What a shower of parasites the legal profession are.

simongurnick

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Does that 22 million come out of the medical budget this year?

How many cut backs will there be this year because of that money not being available, or how much better a health system would it be with an additional 22 million. How many nurses and doctors does 22 million pay for?

How many settlements were made 8 years ago that reduced the ability of the HSE to be adequately staffed when that child was born?

The parents are entitled to an apology, the child is entitled to have his needs met because of that error.

There is barely a week that goes by Without hearing about someone getting a huge settlement from the HSE. Have we reached a situation yet where the annual claims equal the actual HSE budget? Somebody needs to look at the total amount of compensation the HSE has had to pay out.

it would get you to thinking how much better a system that would create situations like this less frequently if that money was actually spent within the system.

A vicious circle me thinks.


And special mention to the legal profession. Who no doubt took a massive chunk and made the parents wait 8 years for this. What a shower of parasites the legal profession are.

Settlement payments aren't coming from hospital budgets. They have insurance policies against this and very often the settlement isnt paid lump sum, but spread over years in installments

Strumms

beerguts wrote: »

This isn't going to be a popular opinion but I feel this is a very excessive settlement award. The boy was not diagnosed with meningitis after birth and now has brain damage due to the medical negligence.I have no issue with compensation to cover the care for the lad over the course of his life but that could never amount to over €22 million euro.

Is their any safeguards to the state in this award that if he was to die early in life that the sum remaining would be reclaimed by the state. I don't think the parents should be entitled to any large sum that remained in this senario.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0917/1165723-settlement/

He is not just entitled to care, he’s entitled to a life. That’s been taken away in a perfect context by the negligence of state employees / state health services. He won’t be able to work, so he should do without things like holidays, so he should do without say an adapted and accessible car to be driven in. Do without health for his entire life, because somebody or some people fell asleep at the wheel ?

22 million sounds a lot, but he’s starting in life, he’s not a 40 year old person who was misdiagnosed with something.... he’s at ‘day one’.

The money will be spent on a rolling basis to care, to provide, to help for all his life... yes with that amount it is going to ensure absolute comfort as well as help. Considering what and how he fell victim to a severe level of incompetence that will adversely affect his life, for life and in the manner which it will, I’m ok with the amount. It’s fair, it’s appropriate.

Just another fûck up from this absolutely absurd joke of a health service that if it spent less time patting itself on the back and singing self congratulatory hymns to anyone in earshot would come to the realization that a lot of Irish people are and have come to that when you scratch away the self congratulating, back patting, the PR spin nonsense regarding our health service it’s more an ill-heath service such is the endemic nature of incompetence from management down through to front line consultants.

s1ippy

AllForIt wrote: »

If the boy has brain damage surely there's no hope of him living anywhere near as long as 80 years.

That's absolutely not the case. People with brain injuries can enjoy the same longevity as anyone else.

They will have taken into account his family's income too and what the loss of earnings over the course of his career would potentially have been.

The money does go to the state in the event that he passes away, his family don't stand to profit at all. Consider that now, in spite of your perceived "win" they've achieved, the family are in a position where they will have to provide round the clock care and devote their entire existence to this child, forever. Imagine you can't do a single thing without wondering where your child is and if he's being looked after for the rest of your and his life, well into the stage of life when you'll need care yourself and beyond. And the hospital, not content to have negligently afflicted him in the first place, drag you away from caring for him in order to engage you in a painful legal battle against them where they claim you're lying about their misconduct.

Is this boy really a deserving target of your judgement. Would you want this for your family?? A nasty, jealous, petty thread.

kowloon wrote: »

I'd pity the poor fecker tasked with turning up at the home of the grieving parents to reclaim that money.

The state controls the money and the parents will have to apply through the ward of court system for it to be released. They get it back after they've already spent it on production of receipts. So they won't retain any in the event of their child's death. Not that any sum of money would even begin to make up for the absolute devastation you would feel every day when you look into the child's eyes and imagine what developmental level he'd be at now if he was like his peers.

Strumms

Correct, brain injuries don’t necessarily have to limit life expectancy. They certainly can and do limit the quality of the victims life.

- ability to earn / work

- ability to maintain and forge relationships / friendships

- ability to travel

- ability to have family

Lots more besides... he’ll need significant care, help. The state only provide so much.

Peregrinus

There will have been actuarial calculations that take account of the boy's life expectancy, care needs, entitlement to care from the HSE, etc.

But bear in mind that we are not just looking at the cost of care. The boy will suffer total loss of earnings for the whole of (what would have been) his working life - earnings that would have gone to house him, feed him, etc, and generally to enhance his life. The award of damages has to cover all this too. Plus anticipated medical costs which, depending on his condition, may be substantial.

All of this will have been covered in the actuarial calculation that led to the 22.5 million figure.

This is an agreed settlement, so the hospital's lawyers will have been through the calculations and the assumptions underlying them, and will have agreed them with the boy's lawyers. The judge has approved the agreed settlement, but he didn't produce the figure.

Ted_YNWA

Moving thread from AH to CA

lawrencesummers

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simongurnick wrote: »

Settlement payments aren't coming from hospital budgets. They have insurance policies against this and very often the settlement isnt paid lump sum, but spread over years in installments

You can be sure the insurance company isn’t footing the bill.
The taxpayer is.

smurgen

AllForIt wrote: »

If the boy has brain damage surely there's no hope of him living anywhere near as long as 80 years.

I understand the lost term costs to care for someone but I still think 22.5 million is at least 50% more than it should be.

Could also be thought of as the age he should reach.

duffysfarm

As a parent i would prefer a healthy child than €22.5 million

Peregrinus

If the case is typical, the action will have been both against the HSE as the operator of the hospital and the medics involved who are alleged to have been negligent. The HSE do not carry liability insurance but the medics do, so they will have been represented by insurance companies. The settlement will have been agreed to by all parties, and there will be agreeement between the HSE and the insurers as to how much each of them will contribute to the 22.5 million. However that part of the agreement isn't subject to court approval; the court only considers the interests of the child. The HSE and the insurers are presumed to be grown-up enough to look after their own interests.

Topgear on Dave

These parents are in an unending hell OP. This thread is very unfair on them.

If you want to question the levels of compensation awarded in court perhaps there are better cases to select.

EndaHonesty

simongurnick wrote: »

Settlement payments aren't coming from hospital budgets. They have insurance policies against this and very often the settlement isnt paid lump sum, but spread over years in installments

All clinical negligence costs and claims come out of the national reserve fund.

It costs hundreds of millions each year...

https://www.ntma.ie/annualreport2016/State_Claims_Agency.html

Peintre Celebre

I'd rather this young fella got 22 million than the Dail paying near 2 for a printer

boombang

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

No amount of money will ever make up for the quality of life this little boy is missing out on. He deserves every single last cent.

I understand this sentiment, but there's going to be €22.5m worth of care taken away from other patients to look after this unlucky lad.