Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

hillbloom

Is there any resemblance at all between the AO & the EO test. Someone mentioned earlier on this thread, the Verbal & Numerical were Ok. Is the last part of this AO test anything like the e-tray which will soon be coming up in the EO competition. This is my first time attempting those tests.

MT0

Em2157 wrote: »

I should probably elaborate on this. Job Test Prep tailors their practices for each test by provider of the tests, and there are plenty of tips, lessons and enough practices to get you confident. I practiced the SOVA tests for EO recently on it, and extended my membership to practice AO in cut-e/AON format. It's simple, goes through what they are looking for with you, and explains what you did wrong if you get it wrong.

Hiya can you tell which pack you purchased?

Em2157

MT0 wrote: »

Hiya can you tell which pack you purchased?

Hi, I initially purchased the 1 month pack for the EO SOVA tests, i think I paid about 50 euro. For those asking, the SOVA EO tests I found much harder than the AO tests last year- they were tough and I thought I'd failed, but did quite well. I then upgraded for an extra 10 euro to have access to all the packages for 3 months. The package I'm practicing on is the Administrative Officer Cut-e (now called AON) tests. The material provided with each section and tips are very useful, so I'd recommend watching/reading those before you practice. I hope this helps

Em2157

hillbloom wrote: »

Is there any resemblance at all between the AO & the EO test. Someone mentioned earlier on this thread, the Verbal & Numerical were Ok. Is the last part of this AO test anything like the e-tray which will soon be coming up in the EO competition. This is my first time attempting those tests.

The layout is different as they are using different providers (EO was SOVA, AO is AON/Cut-e). Personally I find the AON tests much easier to follow and straightforward with wording-especially the Verbal Reasoning. The Numerical is also a decision between yes/no/cannot say rather than 4 different answers. I would definitely practice the format if you only have the EO test to go on-this is quite different.
With regards to the difference between etray and the last test on AO-please see above. Hope this helps

5p9arw38djv2b4

Has anyone logged in - are there practice tests when you log in? I tried but it looks like you start immediately (I tried the situational/ chat assessment but as soon as you go into it it asks to write your name in, so I assume it might go directly into the assessment rather than any samples, and I didn't want to hit start job at in case!

NinjaTurtle

I did the tests there. They are a complete nonsense. They measure nothing really if i'm honest.

Noy sure these competitions are worth the effort.

Seesee

hillbloom wrote: »

Is there any resemblance at all between the AO & the EO test. Someone mentioned earlier on this thread, the Verbal & Numerical were Ok. Is the last part of this AO test anything like the e-tray which will soon be coming up in the EO competition. This is my first time attempting those tests.

This is more or less what I asked and the answer above was no the chat assess for AO is not like etray and the AO has deductive logic tests in addition to numerical and verbal reasoning. But it sounds like the situational judgement chat assess is something similar to what was in stage 1 of EO in that you judge the situation based on your role within the org. HTH

Aleece2020

NinjaTurtle wrote: »

I did the tests there. They are a complete nonsense. They measure nothing really if i'm honest.

Noy sure these competitions are worth the effort.

It was explained to me at gradIreland by two current AO's what they are supposed to measure; but even they said that it can seem like a whole lot of smoke and mirrors at the best of times.

belgowho

For those that did maths test, was it calculator heavy?

ciano316

NinjaTurtle wrote: »

I did the tests there. They are a complete nonsense. They measure nothing really if i'm honest.

Noy sure these competitions are worth the effort.

I've done a few of these competitions and agree they are terrible.
I did the ICT ones and it's the same format. How will showing my knowledge of percentages qualify me to work with networks or application support.

job seeker

ciano316 wrote: »

I've done a few of these competitions and agree they are terrible.
I did the ICT ones and it's the same format. How will showing my knowledge of percentages qualify me to work with networks or application support.

It doesn't. However, you have to have a test which is the same for each AO stream. It's pretty much just a benchmark which they want to be met, to eliminate the lower percentage of applicants. I'd hazard a guess that anyone who secures a job will receive training in order to carry out their duties in their area/department..

ciano316

job seeker wrote: »

It doesn't. However, you have to have a test which is the same for each AO stream. It's pretty much just a benchmark which they want to be met, to eliminate the lower percentage of applicants. I'd hazard a guess that anyone who secures a job will receive training in order to carry out their duties in their area/department..

Yes I work in the civil service you will be trained.
Still doesn't work for something like IT where you could do terrible at the exams because they have nothing to do with the job but you could have all the neccessary skills to work in IT.

ticklemonster

What is the difference between AO and EO/HEO. The pay scales over lap a lot so I presume the roles are commensurate?

job seeker

ciano316 wrote: »

Yes I work in the civil service you will be trained.
Still doesn't work for something like IT where you could do terrible at the exams because they have nothing to do with the job but you could have all the neccessary skills to work in IT.

Ah my mistake. I assumed you were asking. Hence why I explained it.

job seeker

I just did the tests there, not really expecting to progress any further to be honest. The time flew with the patterns I thought..

Spore

Just did the AO tests there, not too confident about how I did. Normally the verbal test is my strongest suit (did really well on the EO one) but I found the multiple tabs and the 'floating' question dialogue box really distracting. I practised on jobtestprep which I found very helpful but never got above 5 out of 10 for the verbals in the AON version.

The deductive reasoning test was also a bit of a bummer in that it instantly flags if you got the answer right or wrong and naturally getting a question wrong may throw you for the next question. Oddly numerical reasoning, which in the EO testing was always my weakest test, I felt the most confident with afterwards. The questions are not hard at all, it's just a lot of questions in a short amount of time, so if you answer quickly and instinctively you're at an advantage over someone who is slow and meticulous.

The SJT thing at the end wasn't too bad. You're given 30 minutes and I finished with 12 minutes to go. Prioritise problem solving, responsibility, respect towards seniority and conforming to deadlines above all else and you should be at least thinking like an AO.

To answer people's question about having the opportunity to do the example questions before committing to the real tests the answer is yes, you can do the sample tests as many times as you like and close out of the website without affecting your 'real' test so long as you don't click 'start test' after the sample questions. Just navigate back to the starting screen and it shows your progress in the tests i.e. not started.

In conclusion I'm nowhere near as confident as I was after the EO tests even though I feel the EO tests relied much more on logic and raw computing ability than these tests. I feel these tests are assessing sheer information processing abilities under very limited time constraints rather than anything else. And hey, if that's what they want, that's what they'll get. At least I placed well on the EO OOM.

5p9arw38djv2b4

Spore wrote: »

Just did the AO tests there, not too confident about how I did. Normally the verbal test is my strongest suit (did really well on the EO one) but I found the multiple tabs and the 'floating' question dialogue box really distracting. I practised on jobtestprep which I found very helpful but never got above 5 out of 10 for the verbals in the AON version.

The deductive reasoning test was also a bit of a bummer in that it instantly flags if you got the answer right or wrong and naturally getting a question wrong may throw you for the next question. Oddly numerical reasoning, which in the EO testing was always my weakest test, I felt the most confident with afterwards. The questions are not hard at all, it's just a lot of questions in a short amount of time, so if you answer quickly and instinctively you're at an advantage over someone who is slow and meticulous.

The SJT thing at the end wasn't too bad. You're given 30 minutes and I finished with 12 minutes to go. Prioritise problem solving, responsibility, respect towards seniority and conforming to deadlines above all else and you should be at least thinking like an AO.

To answer people's question about having the opportunity to do the example questions before committing to the real tests the answer is yes, you can do the sample tests as many times as you like and close out of the website without affecting your 'real' test so long as you don't click 'start test' after the sample questions. Just navigate back to the starting screen and it shows your progress in the tests i.e. not started.

In conclusion I'm nowhere near as confident as I was after the EO tests even though I feel the EO tests relied much more on logic and raw computing ability than these tests. I feel these tests are assessing sheer information processing abilities under very limited time constraints rather than anything else. And hey, if that's what they want, that's what they'll get. At least I placed well on the EO OOM.

I could have written this word for word! I found the verbal very slow to get through due to format as you need to click out to re-read the question, I'm surprised how few I managed as I normally do really well in verbal. The chatassess is fine, also finished really early with 14 minutes to go. Found the deductive much harder than I was expecting, the instant info that I had a question wrong (red) threw me completely and I feel I barely managed any in the 6 minutes.

belgowho

Did the floating tab happen in numerical as well or just the verbal?

Spore

Yep

exitstageleft

Spore wrote: »

Just did the AO tests there, not too confident about how I did. Normally the verbal test is my strongest suit (did really well on the EO one) but I found the multiple tabs and the 'floating' question dialogue box really distracting. I practised on jobtestprep which I found very helpful but never got above 5 out of 10 for the verbals in the AON version.

The deductive reasoning test was also a bit of a bummer in that it instantly flags if you got the answer right or wrong and naturally getting a question wrong may throw you for the next question. Oddly numerical reasoning, which in the EO testing was always my weakest test, I felt the most confident with afterwards. The questions are not hard at all, it's just a lot of questions in a short amount of time, so if you answer quickly and instinctively you're at an advantage over someone who is slow and meticulous.

The SJT thing at the end wasn't too bad. You're given 30 minutes and I finished with 12 minutes to go. Prioritise problem solving, responsibility, respect towards seniority and conforming to deadlines above all else and you should be at least thinking like an AO.

To answer people's question about having the opportunity to do the example questions before committing to the real tests the answer is yes, you can do the sample tests as many times as you like and close out of the website without affecting your 'real' test so long as you don't click 'start test' after the sample questions. Just navigate back to the starting screen and it shows your progress in the tests i.e. not started.

In conclusion I'm nowhere near as confident as I was after the EO tests even though I feel the EO tests relied much more on logic and raw computing ability than these tests. I feel these tests are assessing sheer information processing abilities under very limited time constraints rather than anything else. And hey, if that's what they want, that's what they'll get. At least I placed well on the EO OOM.

Thanks for the detailed review!


I've been practicing the verbal reasoning tests and I also struggle to get better than 5 out of 10. And it's usually my strongest suit! It feels like they've over-complicated the "finding the information" part and that leaves zero time for comprehension. Oh well, I guess we're all in the same boat.


Does anyone know how the scoring is processed?
I remember in a previous EO competition the numeric was pass or fail and the combined verbal and SJT scores were used for ranking.

Seesee

Agree with spore, I actually found the numerical easier this time. I really did not like the format with the question window hidden while you looked in the various tabs for the answers. This is so time consuming and not as good a format as for the EO, plus it's different to what was in the familiarisation videos. I mentioned it in my feedback. I found the deductive logic ok but working against the clock for all these tests is so hard. In comparison, I enjoyed the chat assess. Anyway, done and dusted before the weekend and now just have to wait for results. In comparison to EO, I don't feel I did as well which is disappointing but who knows...

Good luck to all those still to do the tests, keep calm and carry on.

completedit

The sample tests didn't really give an accurate representation of the actual test imo, maybe I may have been unlucky but I got 3/3 initially in the practice, then got into the actual 12 minute timed test and found it so distracting and disorientating. Suppose, that's what they're testing for but I don't know, it shows a bias towards a certain type of person.

acawarrior

When will results be out?

Conqueror

ticklemonster wrote: »

What is the difference between AO and EO/HEO. The pay scales over lap a lot so I presume the roles are commensurate?

EOs are junior to AOs and HEOs. They are a junior management grade where, normally, they oversee a team of Clerical Officers. They would report to an AO or HEO, or perhaps directly to an AP.

HEO is a promotion grade (i.e. a person will have served as a CO or EO before gaining promotion through an internal or interdepartmental competition). In the past, they generally worked on operational matters, but that line has blurred and many HEOs work on policy. It would be very unusual for a HEO to not have staff reporting to them, but it can happen.

AOs generally work on policy, but many also work on operational matters. It's less common for an AO to have staff reporting to them, but it does happen.
Traditionally, AO was the grade where graduates would enter the Civil Service. As it was expected that an AO would be recently out of college, their salary started lower than a HEO (who would have had plenty, if not considerable, experience within the Civil Service and would almost certainly be older), but they would reach the same amount at the end (as the two grades are directly below AP) and it was almost certain that the AO would be promoted to AP (it was pretty much automatic for an AO to go to AP after ~7 years).

Today, while you need a degree to be an AO but don't necessarily need one to be a HEO (though many do), there's not much fundamental difference in the work done by a HEO and an AO. But because AOs take four years to reach the starting point on the HEO pay scale (it was five, but everyone now skips point 4 of the pay scale), AOs are considerably cheaper!

Aleece2020

Test platform doesn't seem to be working properly tonight; specifically the chatAssess tutorial. No matter how many times you click the reply button to answer the messages, it does not register it and produces an error code if you refresh.

Have emailed the technical support team about it.

Chaos Black

Conqueror wrote: »

AOs are considerably cheaper!

The only real difference in most places I would suggest. Likely HEO grade will be quietly phased out and replaced with by AO's. Common practice already imo.

newbie18892

Just did the tests there. I found the numerical and verbal to be so off-putting with the changing tabs and not being able to see the question. I ended up getting quite lost but managed to answer around 3/4 of the questions in each so hoping the quantity makes up for any mistakes.

I found the deductive logic quite fun. I only wish we had been given longer to do that as it was enjoyable to figure out. I got two questions wrong there and that definitely threw me off a bit.

ChatAssess was pretty good. I tried to answer honestly what I would reply in those scenarios so hoping that stands to me. I finished that with 18 minutes spare.

ticklemonster

How are pensions in the CS? What are typical employee/employer contributions?

The_Conductor

ticklemonster wrote: »

How are pensions in the CS? What are typical employee/employer contributions?

1/2 career average earnings earned at a rate of 40/80ths over 40 years service - reduced by the rate of the contributory old age pension using a formula known as COPC. Contribution depends on a lot of different factors, but can be as low as 4% for a CO to 15% or higher for >HEO/AO. 'New Recruits' under the new scheme fare worse off- the pre-1995 cohort fare best- and those recruited between 2000 and 2004 were the last group who have the ability to retire at age 60 (on a actuarial reduced pension).

It depends on a lot of factors- but all the stories you read in the media about gold-plated pensions are complete bull.

mulligja

Anyone happen to know if negative marks are also given for skipped questions?