Employer cost me new job with false reference.

Darc19

rock22 wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.
Only require to give one weeks notice if that is in contract.
Arguably , that is all even required until case law says differently

Nothing ridiculous about it.

Good employees will work with their employer on a leaving date.

In some cases a week is fine. But in my experience two weeks is best if you want to leave on good terms no matter what a contract has says

I think both the op and the employer handled the situation badly

beauf

Darc19 wrote: »

That's correct. But the op claims something was said.

I've edited the post.

Possibly the op has given very short notice and this has not gone down well with either employer.

I certainly would have second thoughts on someone that ups and leaves on a whim and gives very little notice.

What you're saying makes no sense. A new employer will want some one to start as early as possible. Your notice period is in your contact.

If you have two employees that are critical and both leave at the first change they get, and you are demanding they stay as you need them.

This suggests a few things. They're aren't bad employees or you wouldn't want to work they're notice. You're oblivious to your employees being unhappy or don't care.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Darc19 wrote: »

I suspect that the contract says "minimum" one week notice.

A good employee will give "reasonable" notice. In my experience that is at least 2 weeks and in many cases 3-4 weeks.

I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

Utter nonsense

Darc19

Byron White Marathon wrote: »

Utter nonsense

Not in my experience. Then I treat employees well.

But maybe you know better.

beauf

Darc19 wrote: »

..
I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

Any new employer is deluded of they don't think that a previous employer won't occasionally sabotage a reference for an employee they just poached from them.

Jim2007

Darc19 wrote: »

Not in my experience. Then I treat employees well.

But maybe you know better.

Well your posts suggest your experience is not representative of the rest of the world out there.

Have you sent a few years supervising workers on a production line, the back office at a bank.... or what?

OMM 0000

Darc19 wrote: »

An employer cannot give a negative reference.

Yes they can.

I don't understand why this myth continues to be posted on boards.

The risk with giving a bad reference is the company may be sued for defamation, but if they can prove what they said is true they will win the case.

beauf

They can give a very bland reference which may be viewed as the same thing.

mrslancaster

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes they can.

I don't understand why this myth continues to be posted on boards.

The risk with giving a bad reference is the company may be sued for defamation, but if they can prove what they said is true they will win the case.

I thought an employer was not legally obliged to give any reference at all?
Most references these days just contain the dates of employment and the job title. As others posted, an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information.

OMM 0000

mrslancaster wrote: »

I thought an employer was not legally obliged to give any reference at all?
Most references these days just contain the dates of employment and the job title. As others posted, an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information.

Of course they're not obliged to give a reference.

Others aren't saying "an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information", they're saying "an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference full stop". Big difference.

_Brian

There is nothing stopping an employer giving a negative reference providing it’s the truth.

All that is required is that the employer has evidence to back up anything they say in a reference in the event of a case taken by a former employee.

So if I say a person had a problem with tardiness and I have attendance records to prove it then there is no problem.

no.8

Potatoeman wrote:

If you’re that stressed don’t go in. Leaving out an ingredient is actually pretty serious in the food industry. If someone has an allergy they could die. Use a reference from a previous job if need be.

Leaving out an ingredient? Are you you sure you don't mean accidentally adding one wrt the allergy reference?

OP. You just have 1 week and you're done in that hell hole. Be strong and don't even respond to them. If you're up to it, just do your hours, focus on the customers and head off. Leave a poor reference for the employers.

no.8

touts wrote:

A job that relied on your current employer giving you a reference? That's odd. Anyway you should have asked for the reference and locked in the new job before handing in your notice. And it seems you and your colleague basically want to leave immediately which would probably completely screw up her business. I'd love to hear the employers side of the story.

touts wrote:

Either way valuable lesson learned. Don't set fire to your bridges until you are sure the bridge you are on has been completed.

You must be joking right? I am you are 100% serious here?

If so, i despair for you and your direct reports (if you have any) if they have to put with that twisted nonsensical logic

Potatoeman

no.8 wrote: »

Leaving out an ingredient? Are you you sure you don't mean accidentally adding one wrt the allergy reference?

OP. You just have 1 week and you're done in that hell hole. Be strong and don't even respond to them. If you're up to it, just do your hours, focus on the customers and head off. Leave a poor reference for the employers.

Sorry, you are correct. I mean adding a non listed ingredients.

I’d just be very wary getting a reference from these people.

kravmaga

antimatterx wrote: »

They legally can't give a negative one.

Most employers now just give a Statement of Employment, thats it.

sheepsh4gger

seamus wrote: »

They can. There is no law prohibiting a bad reference.

You can sue for defamation if what they say about you is untrue (or can't be proven), but there is no law which makes it illegal to give a bad reference.

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

Dav010

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

He was wrong in both jurisdictions.

dennyk

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

Folks often confuse "illegal" with "legally risky" on that subject. Giving a detailed poor reference for a former employee could create a risk of legal liability, and for most employers, it's not worth the risk, so many have internal policies that they will only verify certain minimal facts about former employees when contacted for a reference (e.g. dates of employment and job title(s)). They don't have those policies because it's illegal to provide a detailed reference, though, only to avoid even the small risk of potential legal liability that a more detailed reference might bring (remember that even successfully defending a lawsuit costs a company money in the end...).

_Brian

If the employer has evidence to back up whatever they say in a reference then it’s perfectly fine.
If they are giving a poor reference on an issue that hasn’t been documented then they are taking a risk.

sheepsh4gger

_Brian wrote: »

If the employer has evidence to back up whatever they say in a reference then it’s perfectly fine.
If they are giving a poor reference on an issue that hasn’t been documented then they are taking a risk.

Are they not breaking GDPR by disclosing specifics?

Heart Break Kid

Del2005 wrote: »

There are many ways to give a bad reference without it being negative

Smart employers won’t risk it, often it’s best to just say no comment.

Dav010

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Are they not breaking GDPR by disclosing specifics?

The reference is being given at the employees request.

Any update on situation OP?

Jim2007

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

The only country I know of where it is illegal to give a bad reference is Switzerland. So most employers don’t may much attention to them.

Mind you we virtually have no labour law in any case. There is no concept of unfair dismissal, redundancy etc...

Dav010

Jim2007 wrote: »

Mind you we virtually have no labour law in any case. There is no concept of unfair dismissal, redundancy etc...

Do you mean Switzerland?

We have the Unfair Dismissals Act, Organisation of working time Act, Industrial Relations Act, Redundancy Payments Act etc?

Jim2007

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Are they not breaking GDPR by disclosing specifics?

In a small company, ignorant of the law maybe. But in most cases, between the employment contract, the handbook and the exit procedures you authorization for them to give a reference on your behalf.

Also some employers don’t give references, but give a statement of employment, which just states the period of employment, tasks and responsibilities of position and that is about it.

Jim2007

Dav010 wrote: »

Do you mean Switzerland?

We have the Unfair Dismissals Act, Organisation of working time Act, Industrial Relations Act, Redundancy Payments Act etc?

Sorry, yes. So long as you respect the notice period in the contract, you can let someone go after 30 years service with no comeback. You can even go out and hire a young cheaper person and have the old employee train them up.

Dave147

Not sure about this from a legal standpoint but if it was me I would be 100% recording any conversations with them for the next week, some voice recorder app that works while screen is off should do the trick. May not cover you if there's legal action but it would be good to have especially if they threaten you with a bad reference or call you names.

redmgar

Dempo1 wrote: »

I suppose these queries rarely give the full story and it would ultimately end with a he said, she said scenario. I just think its a very curious sequence of events and I've never, ever come across a situation were a new employer seeks a reference from a current employer, also curious a offer given and then withdrawn. Re the Notice, It's not clear what notice was given but it seems it was.

I needed to get a reference from a current employer for a new position and I know a couple of others in the same situation.

sheepsh4gger

Dave147 wrote: »

Not sure about this from a legal standpoint but if it was me I would be 100% recording any conversations with them for the next week, some voice recorder app that works while screen is off should do the trick. May not cover you if there's legal action but it would be good to have especially if they threaten you with a bad reference or call you names.

I think to record conversations with people you need consent from one or both parties involved depending on the country. I wonder what the law says in that respect in Ireland and Northern Ireland.


I remember working with a fellow who would work 2 jobs and he played me his manager's rants on his Ericsson Walkman phone, it was funny as hell. Today that kind of stuff would probably go to court.