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Employer cost me new job with false reference.

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    #62
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    I think to record conversations with people you need consent from one or both parties involved depending on the country. I wonder what the law says in that respect in Ireland and Northern Ireland.


    I remember working with a fellow who would work 2 jobs and he played me his manager's rants on his Ericsson Walkman phone, it was funny as hell. Today that kind of stuff would probably go to court.

    Here, consent from one party only is needed as long as that person is one of the people in the conversation. You can’t record two other people talking, but you can record anyone you are talking to.


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    #63
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,467 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    _Brian wrote: »
    If the employer has evidence to back up whatever they say in a reference then it’s perfectly fine.
    If they are giving a poor reference on an issue that hasn’t been documented then they are taking a risk.

    A huge risk, they need to be of the ability to back what they write with hard evidence.

    A company I worked for would only issue one type of reference for the best employees and average ones...

    “ I can confirm that Joe Kelly worked for us in the position of office supervisor, without issue from March 2014 to April 2019 “.

    When people asked the managers if they could elaborate more positively and with details... “ no, that’s the standard company reference “


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If you think a former employer is being reticent...

    Q. Would you rehire Jimmy if you had a similar role for him?

    It's a yes no answer. And 100% safe to answer.


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    #65
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If you think a former employer is being reticent...

    Q. Would you rehire Jimmy if you had a similar role for him?

    It's a yes no answer. And 100% safe to answer.

    Honest, informative, reassuring, and devastating in it’s simplicity. The truest form of reference giving.


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    #66
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Q. Would you rehire Jimmy if you had a similar role for him?


    "Legally, I don't feel I'm in a position to comment on that"


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    #67
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    "Legally, I don't feel I'm in a position to comment on that"

    Why wouldn’t you be in a position to legally comment? It’s a devastating way of stating whether the employee is crap, without saying they are crap, if you tell the questioner why you wouldn’t hire the employee again, then you may be in trouble. But anyone who knows enough to ask that question, knows enough not to ask the follow up.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    "Legally, I don't feel I'm in a position to comment on that"


    Thankfully, nobody is that repressed in the real world. But, even that is telling.


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    #69
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thankfully, nobody is that repressed in the real world. But, even that is telling.


    This the objective, while not leaving yourself open to legal actions later.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    This the objective, while not leaving yourself open to legal actions later.


    It wouldn't leave you open to legal actions to simply say you wouldn't hire a person again. Zero. The person shouldn't expand on it though.


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    #71
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    Are they not breaking GDPR by disclosing specifics?

    Gdpr only applies to data stored in some way.


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    #72
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    You are very foolish to say that you wouldn't rehire someone. This is a clear negative comment and cannot be interpreted any other way... good luck explaining it. This is especially the case if you are a manager or the like who has no role in recruitment, you are making a personal comment.

    Best to just give a statement of employment and leave it at that.


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    John Hutton wrote: »
    You are very foolish to say that you wouldn't rehire someone. This is a clear negative comment and cannot be interpreted any other way... good luck explaining it. This is especially the case if you are a manager or the like who has no role in recruitment, you are making a personal comment.

    Best to just give a statement of employment and leave it at that.

    So, you've worked for my company and you've left. You give me as a reference. I tell them that if I had a similar job that you worked in previously I wouldn't hire you.

    You've retained the best lawyer in the world, what do you do?


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    #74
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    John Hutton wrote: »
    You are very foolish to say that you wouldn't rehire someone. This is a clear negative comment and cannot be interpreted any other way... good luck explaining it.
    You don't have to explain it.

    Negative comments are not a problem. Untrue comments are. Or rather, comments that you cannot prove the veracity of.


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    #75
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,975 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, you've worked for my company and you've left. You give me as a reference. I tell them that if I had a similar job that you worked in previously I wouldn't hire you.

    You've retained the best lawyer in the world, what do you do?

    I do what the lawyer tells me.

    But I tell the lawyer that I wouldn't rehire you because you've put on weight and are now too ugly for the healthy image I want in my company. Or because you insulted my secretary on your way out of the building on your last day.


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    #76
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    A good reference is John worked for us, great lad, hope he changes his mind, blah blah blah.


    A bad good reference is John worked for us. His performance was satisfactory.



    Spot the difference and read between the lines.


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    #77
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,571 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Bikerman2019 wrote: »
    A good reference is John worked for us, great lad, hope he changes his mind, blah blah blah.


    A bad good reference is John worked for us. His performance was satisfactory.



    Spot the difference and read between the lines.

    While I agree with you, the standard now seems to be that irrespective of your employers opinion of you, good or bad, a lot of employers will confirm only start and end dates. It’s the undocumented phone call with that most loaded of questions that garners the real opinion of the employee.


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    #78
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    John Hutton wrote: »
    You are very foolish to say that you wouldn't rehire someone. This is a clear negative comment and cannot be interpreted any other way... good luck explaining it. This is especially the case if you are a manager or the like who has no role in recruitment, you are making a personal comment.

    Best to just give a statement of employment and leave it at that.

    This is nonsense, you can absolutely give a negative reference as long as it is factual.


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    #79
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭skallywag


    antimatterx wrote: »
    They legally can't give a negative one.

    A complete urban myth.

    I have been asked many times if I would employ that same person again if I had do things over, and when it has been appropriate I have answered 'No'.

    Have I broken the law?


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    #80
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t you be in a position to legally comment? It’s a devastating way of stating whether the employee is crap, without saying they are crap, if you tell the questioner why you wouldn’t hire the employee again, then you may be in trouble. But anyone who knows enough to ask that question, knows enough not to ask the follow up.

    This hits the nail on the head. In my experience it is nearly always the final question you are asked before the end of the call, and you give a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. I have never been asked 'why?' nor would I offer any explanation if I was naively asked.


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