Third Secretary & Development Specialist Campaign 2020

belgowho

PurpleRainx wrote: »

Sorry but where did you find these questions? Under the link sent in the emails for video invites? How are we sure these are the only questions we can ask? Sorry I am waiting for access to a computer to open the video link so please excuse my ignorance!

You would have received a message on your PAS account that provides a link to a word document. Questions are listed close the end.

FenFlynn

For those going through to the next stage, 3 minutes seem long enough for one question. If using the STAR method I’d struggle to talk about one competency for over 2 minutes. From my understanding from reading the questions, they are only looking for 1 example per question, not sure if I’m right or not here.
Any suggestions on how to approach those questions most effectively?

PurpleRainx

Anybody know how the order of merits work after this video interview round? If you do well/ badly do they bump you up/down in the OOM? Do they look at your application form at this stage?

ticklemonster

Does anyone know what kind of training new recruits receive? Is this like a regular grad scheme where you are trained up through courses etc or is it all learn as you go?

PeachL00pies

ticklemonster wrote: »

Does anyone know what kind of training new recruits receive? Is this like a regular grad scheme where you are trained up through courses etc or is it all learn as you go?

There is a Graduate Development Programme, which Third Secs attend alongside AOs. In addition, there are courses provided externally, including communications/policy training and language courses.

The issue a lot of Third Secs face is finding time to attend training...

PeachL00pies

PurpleRainx wrote: »

Anybody know how the order of merits work after this video interview round? If you do well/ badly do they bump you up/down in the OOM? Do they look at your application form at this stage?

I've recently completed Stage Two of a different PAS competition. After this stage we were provided with messages noting a pass or fail, but were not provided with information relating to the OoM.

I believe this is similar to how Stage Two has been constructed in a lot of competitions - once at the start to establish how many will be taken through, and once at the end to establish a panel.

HartsHat

PeachL00pies wrote: »

I've recently completed Stage Two of a different PAS competition. After this stage we were provided with messages noting a pass or fail, but were not provided with information relating to the OoM.

I believe this is similar to how Stage Two has been constructed in a lot of competitions - once at the start to establish how many will be taken through, and once at the end to establish a panel.

In previous TS competitions (with 4 stages) there has been a new OOM at each stage.

ticklemonster

PeachL00pies wrote: »

There is a Graduate Development Programme, which Third Secs attend alongside AOs. In addition, there are courses provided externally, including communications/policy training and language courses.

The issue a lot of Third Secs face is finding time to attend training...

Oh really, is it a busy role? Any ideas how onboarding works? When would you expect the first recruits to start and how long does it take to move through a panel?

HartsHat

ticklemonster wrote: »

Oh really, is it a busy role? Any ideas how onboarding works? When would you expect the first recruits to start and how long does it take to move through a panel?

Depends on each section/division. But, for the majority a very busy role (e.g. Political, Middle East, SECCO, Brexit, Press, Protocol, EU Division,
IUKA).

All of those Divisions/Sections require frequent/consistent long days with some weekend work.

Posting is obviously then busier again with work most weekends with consular/duty/representational work.

If you're not happy in a role that requires consistently more hours than the standard working week, sometimes at short notice, this isn't for you.

It's the same as any Diplomatic Service, really. Comes with territory.

ticklemonster

HartsHat wrote: »

Depends on each section/division. But, for the majority a very busy role (e.g. Political, Middle East, SECCO, Brexit, Press, Protocol, EU Division,
IUKA).

All of those Divisions/Sections require frequent/consistent long days with some weekend work.

Posting is obviously then busier again with work most weekends with consular/duty/representational work.

If you're not happy in a role that requires consistently more hours than the standard working week, sometimes at short notice, this isn't for you.

It's the same as any Diplomatic Service, really. Comes with territory.

Oh wow, I didnt expect it to be significantly more work than analogous grades. I take it the overtime etc is paid? Are TS on placement effectively on call 24/7?

Green188845

I got an OOM in the 490s for third secretary, and am wondering if people reckon there's even an outside chance of getting an interview within the 2 years?
Based on what has been said already, there seems to be a remote possibility.
I've been working towards the third sec role for years, and would just like to know if any hopes on my part are misplaced.

blithe

I'm just prepping for the second stage now, hoping to get it done tomorrow or early Wednesday. I've never done one of these before and was wondering if anyone has and could tell me whether there is something like a clock or countdown on screen so you can see how much time you have left to answer the question? Or whether you're expected to keep time yourself?
Thanks

PeachL00pies

blithe wrote: »

I'm just prepping for the second stage now, hoping to get it done tomorrow or early Wednesday. I've never done one of these before and was wondering if anyone has and could tell me whether there is something like a clock or countdown on screen so you can see how much time you have left to answer the question? Or whether you're expected to keep time yourself?
Thanks

You can enter and exit the practice sessions as many times as you need - you get a feel for the testing environment, and can see the structure. You get a chance to prepare before the clock starts for your answer and everything is visible at the top of the screen.

blithe

PeachL00pies wrote: »

You can enter and exit the practice sessions as many times as you need - you get a feel for the testing environment, and can see the structure. You get a chance to prepare before the clock starts for your answer and everything is visible at the top of the screen.

Great, thanks! I'll definitely be making sure I'm absolutely familiar with it all first.
I was thinking how mortifying it would be to be cut off mid-sentence lol

ddpas

Didn't realise we could take a practice interview at any point (not just right before the interview), so that's great news!
Anyone know if theres a few seconds break between questions? Or if we get a few seconds to read each question?

gaillimhjon

I just did mine this morning! Yes, we get 1minute to read through each question/mentally prepare before the 3min timer starts for the actual question. The practice questions were good too - also an opportunity to hear how you sound! Best of luck

blithe

gaillimhjon wrote: »

I just did mine this morning! Yes, we get 1minute to read through each question/mentally prepare before the 3min timer starts for the actual question. The practice questions were good too - also an opportunity to hear how you sound! Best of luck

Thanks so much for the info!
Hope it went well for you

ddpas

gaillimhjon wrote: »

I just did mine this morning! Yes, we get 1minute to read through each question/mentally prepare before the 3min timer starts for the actual question. The practice questions were good too - also an opportunity to hear how you sound! Best of luck

Thanks a million for that! I hope yours went well

belgowho

gaillimhjon wrote: »

I just did mine this morning! Yes, we get 1minute to read through each question/mentally prepare before the 3min timer starts for the actual question. The practice questions were good too - also an opportunity to hear how you sound! Best of luck

Thanks!

When each question is finished, does it automatically go to the next one?

gaillimhjon

belgowho wrote: »

Thanks!

When each question is finished, does it automatically go to the next one?

Yes! After the question, you move on and the 1min timer to read the next question starts automatically.

belgowho

gaillimhjon wrote: »

Yes! After the question, you move on and the 1min timer to read the next question starts automatically.

Great, thanks so much. Sorry just another question, are the 3 questions in the order they came on the form?

gaillimhjon

belgowho wrote: »

Great, thanks so much. Sorry just another question, are the 3 questions in the order they came on the form?

Yes, they are indeed! Best of luck to you!

HartsHat

ticklemonster wrote: »

Oh wow, I didnt expect it to be significantly more work than analogous grades. I take it the overtime etc is paid? Are TS on placement effectively on call 24/7?

Without being glib, you might want to seriously look in to what a TS entails. Especially with regard to what posting entails.

A 2 Dip mission and a phone call comes in at 3am with a serious consular case, the most likely person picking up the phone is a TS.

The upside, of course, is that the responsibility a TS has abroad is more akin to AP/PO than AO. Lots of missions are a TS and a Counsellor or even a TS and an A/Sec. When your HoM is not there, you will be chargé (acting Head of Mission).

Overtime is not a thing.

PeachL00pies

ticklemonster wrote: »

Oh wow, I didnt expect it to be significantly more work than analogous grades. I take it the overtime etc is paid? Are TS on placement effectively on call 24/7?

You have the standard flexi-time arrangement when you're based in Ireland - if you've clocked hours you can get them back through time off in lieu, etc. There is a process for overtime pay, but as far as I'm aware they try and encourage you to take the days off and you have a set time period to do so.

You can't be see to be taking advantage of this though, i.e. clocking up hours where you did nothing constructive so you could have some time off...

PearseCork92

Green188845 wrote: »

I got an OOM in the 490s for third secretary, and am wondering if people reckon there's even an outside chance of getting an interview within the 2 years?
Based on what has been said already, there seems to be a remote possibility.
I've been working towards the third sec role for years, and would just like to know if any hopes on my part are misplaced.

Just taking a look at this thread and the previous one, it appears in the majority of cases they only take one batch for round 2 testing. The last intake, which by all accounts was an unusually large one, they went down to 477 in the 1st round order of merit and took no further batch. The one previous to that they appear to have taken down to approx 270 or so on the 1st round with no further batch.

There is always the possibility of a further batch being taken but I wouldn't plan my life around the chance.

ticklemonster

HartsHat wrote: »

Without being glib, you might want to seriously look in to what a TS entails. Especially with regard to what posting entails.

A 2 Dip mission and a phone call comes in at 3am with a serious consular case, the most likely person picking up the phone is a TS.

The upside, of course, is that the responsibility a TS has abroad is more akin to AP/PO than AO. Lots of missions are a TS and a Counsellor or even a TS and an A/Sec. When your HoM is not there, you will be chargé (acting Head of Mission).

Overtime is not a thing.

Interesting, thanks! It is hard to get a sense of the role from the candidate info booklet

ddpas

gaillimhjon wrote: »

I just did mine this morning! Yes, we get 1minute to read through each question/mentally prepare before the 3min timer starts for the actual question. The practice questions were good too - also an opportunity to hear how you sound! Best of luck

Just wondering too actually, if you finished before the 3 minutes was up could you stop the recording? or do you just smile and wave until its over :pac:

completedit

PearseCork92 wrote: »

Just taking a look at this thread and the previous one, it appears in the majority of cases they only take one batch for round 2 testing. The last intake, which by all accounts was an unusually large one, they went down to 477 in the 1st round order of merit and took no further batch. The one previous to that they appear to have taken down to approx 270 or so on the 1st round with no further batch.

There is always the possibility of a further batch being taken but I wouldn't plan my life around the chance.

At a later time can we do the test again to improve our chances? Guessing we can.

PeachL00pies

completedit wrote: »

At a later time can we do the test again to improve our chances? Guessing we can.

If you don't pass a stage of a PAS competition you generally don't have an opportunity to try it again. So if you get to Stage Two and don't get the points needed for Stage Three, they won't approach you again with regard to that position.

Wyattwouldnt

Can anyone who has recorded their interview already tell me if you can end the 3 minutes prematurely - maybe by hitting a stop button or something? My answers seem to always fizzle out after about 2 and a half minutes and I'm worried that I'll have to sit there smiling awkwardly at the webcam for upwards of 30 seconds...

PeachL00pies

Wyattwouldnt wrote: »

Can anyone who has recorded their interview already tell me if you can end the 3 minutes prematurely - maybe by hitting a stop button or something? My answers seem to always fizzle out after about 2 and a half minutes and I'm worried that I'll have to sit there smiling awkwardly at the webcam for upwards of 30 seconds...

You can end the question early. My answers were all less than three minutes in practice, allowing myself some spare time just in case I stumbled.

Wyattwouldnt

PeachL00pies wrote: »

You can end the question early. My answers were all less than three minutes in practice, allowing myself some spare time just in case I stumbled.

Thank you! This is a huge relief.

augustgetaway

Well... it’s done and I can honestly say it did not go well. Hadn’t a notion what I was saying half the time, I honestly think having the questions was worse than not having them and I found it so hard to talk to the camera rather than an actual person, I suppose it’s all up in the air for now and it’s just a game of wait and see!

blithe

augustgetaway wrote: »

Well... it’s done and I can honestly say it did not go well. Hadn’t a notion what I was saying half the time, I honestly think having the questions was worse than not having them and I found it so hard to talk to the camera rather than an actual person, I suppose it’s all up in the air for now and it’s just a game of wait and see!

Trying to stop putting it off and get it done myself this afternoon haha

Here's hoping it went better for you than you thought, as sometimes happens! At least it's done and dusted

augustgetaway

blithe wrote: »

Trying to stop putting it off and get it done myself this afternoon haha

Here's hoping it went better for you than you thought, as sometimes happens! At least it's done and dusted

Best of luck with it! It’s very weird talking to yourself, I’d recommend definitely doing a few of the practice interviews, I had to take it a few times to make sure I was looking at the right place.

Thanks, hopefully that’s the case but we’ll see!

blithe

All done and submitted! Think it went okay actually. We'll have to wait and see, hopefully they won't keep us too long ‚
Best of luck to everyone still to do it!

FenFlynn

I'm going to do mine in the morning, trying to memorise my answers, finding it really hard actually. Hopefully I won't be too nervous in the morning.

blithe

FenFlynn wrote: »

I'm going to do mine in the morning, trying to memorise my answers, finding it really hard actually. Hopefully I won't be too nervous in the morning.

Good luck! I would advise, as others have already done, to do the practice interviews as many times as you need to calm the aul nerves down a bit and get used to the format

Also the questions in the practice interviews aren't the actual ones in the interview (they're just random general job interview Qs) so just ignore them and answer as if they were asking the Qs we prepared for.
Hope it goes well for you!

FenFlynn

blithe wrote: »

Good luck! I would advise, as others have already done, to do the practice interviews as many times as you need to calm the aul nerves down a bit and get used to the format

Also the questions in the practice interviews aren't the actual ones in the interview (they're just random general job interview Qs) so just ignore them and answer as if they were asking the Qs we prepared for.
Hope it goes well for you!

Thanks a lot! Just trying not to be too nervous. I've done a few practices, never actually managed to finish my answers in the time period. Have to shorten them a bit to fit in 3 minutes

FenFlynn

Just done my recording, I was super nervous for one question and really stumbled on it but hopefully it went OK overall. It's difficult to know how the examples went though, I felt some of them weren't strong enough.
Hope we hear back from them soon. Would two weeks be too soon to ask?

ddpas

Just did mine too!! A few technical glitches but all good I think, glad to hear it went alright for everyone! Online it says invitations to the assessment centre (on Zoom) will be by late November so two weeks is probably a good guess:)

FenFlynn

Does anyone have any idea what the Precis exercise entail? Have never done one before, just want to try and prepare for it a bit if by the off chance I make through to the next round.

CrouchTiger

ticklemonster wrote: »

Interesting, thanks! It is hard to get a sense of the role from the candidate info booklet

The variability of roles within the grade at HQ is quite huge. Some people work largely on the policy for a geographic region including a lot of representational work with posted diplomats from those states. That might be what most people expect. But many other TS work in roles like Training Unit or Publicity focused on the day-to-day operational matters. This is why the Department recruits generalists.

The breadth and variety of expectations and requirements with this job are sometimes mind-boggling. It can go from boring clerical work to meeting a foreign head of state in the space of half an hour. There's no point in the booklet being more specific as you'll do it all over the space of a few years in the DFA. There is also no real time for training or settling in - the kitchen sink will be thrown at you from day 1 and the recruitment of candidates reflects that need to just handle everything.

EoghanG94

Hi. Have passed the 1st stage for DSO and Third Secretary. My OOM for 3rd secretary is 700 and 350 for the DSO position. Has anyone been called for stage 2 with a similar number to mine? Cheers

augustgetaway

EoghanG94 wrote: »

Hi. Have passed the 1st stage for DSO and Third Secretary. My OOM for 3rd secretary is 700 and 350 for the DSO position. Has anyone been called for stage 2 with a similar number to mine? Cheers

Someone posted earlier in the thread that it was low 200s for TS and low 70s for DS called so far!

completedit

EoghanG94 wrote: »

Hi. Have passed the 1st stage for DSO and Third Secretary. My OOM for 3rd secretary is 700 and 350 for the DSO position. Has anyone been called for stage 2 with a similar number to mine? Cheers

I'm in the 700 club too bro. As far as TS, it would probably take a nuclear holocaust where we are the few remaining survivors to have a chance I reckon

Aleece2020

completedit wrote: »

I'm in the 700 club too bro. As far as TS, it would probably take a nuclear holocaust where we are the few remaining survivors to have a chance I reckon

Personally, I want DSO and not TS but I did apply for both as well as several other campaigns this year.

That's the important thing to factor in with the entirety of the AO campaigns - a lot of people are in for more than one and those higher OOMs will happily abandon every other stream they're in once they get offered the one they want, freeing up a slot for someone else.

exitstageleft

I think in the last competition (2018) there were 477 called to the next stage* and all the subsequent panels came from that group.

In the competition before that (2017) they seem to have called ~250 to the next stage. Again, ask the panels were then drawn from that group.

With the lower number called to the next stage this time around I wonder if they're hoping they might yet run another competition again next year. Of course, they may also just have way fewer places!


*Third stage then was the equivalent of second now, I think, since there is no supervised re-taking of the tests this time.

HartsHat

exitstageleft wrote: »

I think in the last competition (2018) there were 477 called to the next stage* and all the subsequent panels came from that group.

In the competition before that (2017) they seem to have called ~250 to the next stage. Again, ask the panels were then drawn from that group.

With the lower number called to the next stage this time around I wonder if they're hoping they might yet run another competition again next year. Of course, they may also just have way fewer places!


*Third stage then was the equivalent of second now, I think, since there is no supervised re-taking of the tests this time.

The second stage in previous competitions contained the retaking of tests and the précis. The third stage was face to face and group interviews. The fourth stage was face to face interviews again.

The 2018 was the largest intake in the history of the Dept so unlikely to be repeated.

CrouchTiger

exitstageleft wrote: »

I think in the last competition (2018) there were 477 called to the next stage* and all the subsequent panels came from that group.

In the competition before that (2017) they seem to have called ~250 to the next stage. Again, ask the panels were then drawn from that group.

With the lower number called to the next stage this time around I wonder if they're hoping they might yet run another competition again next year. Of course, they may also just have way fewer places!


*Third stage then was the equivalent of second now, I think, since there is no supervised re-taking of the tests this time.

If I was to make a guess, it's way fewer places... 2018 was an enormous expansion of the ranks, to the point that it's completely swamped the posting queue and people are going to be stuck here 3 years before going abroad. I do not think there will be a huge number of vacancies to fill this time around.