Leinster v Saracens

Happy4all

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

The referee couldn't even make a call on the Sexton challenge being a foul despite it being obvious to the world it was a foul.

Ultimately the loss is Leinsters fault and shortcoming but the referee has enormously exasperated it.

The amount of fouls or offside he and his team missed was too high also.

As I said though, Leinster can only blame themselves but the referee made the mountain a bit higher.

sounds like you really want to blame the Ref

This is going to hurt Ireland too so a bad result all around. Saracens without Farrell should have been doable, just a bad result and will be tough to get over.

Will leave it there for a few days, some people seem to delight in results like these and the disappointment of others so will turn social media off.

LostArt

Ref was a little harsh but not turning up further first half was the killer. A very very tough loss to take

pc7

You wonder if the crowd were there could they have swayed it a bit that second half.

PhlegmyMoses

Set piece in general for Leinster was poor. That was the winning and losing of that. Saracens weren't much threat in open play and played the ref well, but if you scurm as poorly as Leinster did you're always going to lose.

Exclamation Marc

Happy4all wrote: »

sounds like you really want to blame the Ref

Ermmm I clearly said it was Leinsters shortcomings that lost the game.

TCM

I thought this Leinster team is the best team ever. LOL

thomond2006

Win: Didn't we play the ref well?
Lose: THE REF WAS SO BIASED!

Saracens were the better team. Leinster had no answer aside from a 15/20 minute purple patch. Losing the ball in the maul on the Saracens 5m in the first half was an absolute killer. Gauzere was ready to issue a yellow card and Leinster botched it at a key moment.

pc7

A-Train wrote: »

Leinster only themselves time blame, the ref had a factor in it no doubt and I just can’t get over how Itoje gets away with so much in every game.

All I heard all week was how Itoje drifts, does x,y and z and would be shown to ref. He got pinged for one drift iirc

Hurrache

Buer wrote: »

Stop pissing and moaning about the ref. He's not the reason the game was lost or even close to it.

Don't think anyone said he was, just saying he's been a bit ****.

bennyl10

fitz wrote: »

Yes.
Yellow card for the Sexton high hit, policing of the offside line, and things would have looked very different imo.

Leinster have been the masters of offside all year, Sarries just matched them

Saracens were the better team today by a stretch

The scrum alone was as dominant as we’ve seen from any team

kingofthekong

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hell of a lot of questions for robyn mcbride after this

Not sure how much is Mcbrydes fault or just coming up against a way better pack

tbm

pc7 wrote: »

You wonder if the crowd were there could they have swayed it a bit that second half.

Honestly don’t think so. Saracens, and England, have won in recent years at a packed Aviva. They do not care.

Good contest though. How do you solve a problem like Itoje?

Ref was woeful, but that’s not why we lost.

degsie

7 scrum penalties against Lein, unreal!

pc7

Loss aside it’s just so good to have rugby back.

Squidgy Black

Lads, the post everyone's quoting that's blaming the ref is the same fella who's always in the Munster thread causing murder. Same person saying throughout the game Sarries shouldn't have been in the competition. Fairly certain not even a Leinster fan.

There's nobody else saying the ref lost us the game.

razorblunt

Shades of Japan in the World Cup today, a team with time on their hands, relative lack of pressure.

Interesting to see if they can repeat it again though.

roverjoyce

Beaten with Alex Goode at fly half
Time for Sexton to go now and let Byrne lead

thecomedian

thomond2006 wrote: »

Win: Didn't we play the ref well?
Lose: THE REF WAS SO BIASED!

Saracens were the better team. Leinster had no answer aside from a 15/20 minute purple patch. Losing the ball in the maul on the Saracens 5m in the first half was an absolute killer. Gauzere was ready to issue a yellow card and Leinster botched it at a key moment.

That patch only ended when Sexton went off. We didn’t play for the last 15 minutes. We’re going to need a replacement for him soon and I’d rather see Harry Byrne getting game time ahead of Ross.
If Sexton stayed on I think we could have gotten another score

mike_cork

When Munster fans (who deservedly lost to leinster in both games in recent weeks) pointed out inconsistencies with Braces ref we were sniggered at.
Funny to see the shoe on the other foot today from our leinster friends. Leinster were bullied up front today. Your set piece was taken apart. If you take the ref caused that you're deluded.
Also the irony of complaining about saracens being offside (they were) when leinster have been doing it for years

Bazzo

Leinster got Leinstered basically

sydthebeat

kingofthekong wrote: »

Not sure how much is Mcbrydes fault or just coming up against a way better pack

When your scrum gets utterly destroyed you don't think much fault lies in the hands of the scrum coach????

Mcbride should be in for a hell of a time after that.

AbusesToilets

Massive questions with respect to mentality. Leinster as fragile as Ireland in a pressure game. What more motivation is needed to be ready for a match like this?

Saracens didn't have to do anything in the first half, gave the game away to them on a plate.

pc7

tbm wrote: »

Honestly don’t think so. Saracens, and England, have won in recent years at a packed Aviva. They do not care.

Good contest though. How do you solve a problem like Itoje?

Ref was woeful, but that’s not why we lost.

Yeah maybe, listening to think it was Ferris this week he said Sarries the most hostile team he ever played against.

randomname2005

A-Train wrote: »

the ref had a factor in it no doubt .

And this is one of the reasons why I'm losing interest in rugby. There will be 50 50 calls, but the ref has too much influence. The way the game is played it is almost like they need multiple TV officials to look at all the dubious high tackles, off sides and make it a case of the best team not the best law benders winning. Would leinster have one with a different ref? It should never come down to that

Exclamation Marc

mike_cork wrote: »

When Munster fans (who deservedly lost to leinster in both games in recent weeks) pointed out inconsistencies with Braces ref we were sniggered at.
Funny to see the shoe on the other foot today from our leinster friends. Leinster were bullied up front today. Your set piece was taken apart. If you take the ref caused that you're deluded.
Also the irony of complaining about saracens being offside (they were) when leinster have been doing it for years

I know it's an easy time to swan in and poke the bear (it's rare Leinster lose and all that) but the majority of posts are not blaming the referee for the loss but pointing out how bad he was.

Clearly Leinsters fault for a poor first half which made the turnaround impossible for them.

But ya know, the referee being poor and Leinster being at fault for the loss are two things that can coexist.

OldRio

molloyjh wrote: »

And the scrum. Dear Lord the scrum. That said, they seemed to be allowed bore in at 90 degrees at will in the scrum and def bought a few penalties that way. We just couldn't deal with it. And that's on us.

About the scrum. It is a problem for Leinster and if my memory is correct the interpros showed this. BUT the amount of boring by Sarries was off the charts. It got to the stage in the second half that the their front row were setting for it seconds after the ball came in.

thecomedian

sydthebeat wrote: »

When your scrum gets utterly destroyed you don't think much fault lies in the hands of the scrum coach????

Mcbride should be in for a hell of a time after that.

I don’t think Porter is good enough against the best. He’s still improving but there’s a big gap at the moment.

pc7

The first half lost it end of story, we didn’t take 3 when we should have (even with the wind).

thomond2006

Itoje was MOTM for me. Rhodes gave away an incredibly cheap penalty with his late hit on Sexton that put Leinster back in the game. Saracens had a penalty reversed because of it.

Itoje is incredible. When he has so many borderline penalty incidents you realise it's skill and not luck. He's a machine.

Hurrache

mike_cork wrote: »

When Munster fans (who deservedly lost to leinster in both games in recent weeks) pointed out inconsistencies with Braces ref we were sniggered at.
Funny to see the shoe on the other foot today from our leinster friends. Leinster were bullied up front today. Your set piece was taken apart. If you take the ref caused that you're deluded.
Also the irony of complaining about saracens being offside (they were) when leinster have been doing it for years

We've been saying since the outset that Saracens have been so much better and Leinster were rudderless.
We've also been saying the ref was poor.
The latter does not imply we're saying the ref lost us the game.

WoollyRedHat

Why do Leinster think that they can start in lower gear at kick-off and think it'll be fine? Saracens are not a Pro-14 team and they played with guile and ferociousness from the first whistle. Leinster did not.

Exclamation Marc

pc7 wrote: »

The first half lost it end of story, we didn’t take 3 when we should have (even with the wind).

Agreed. It was a pivotal point as Saracens immediately ran up the pitch and put more points on the board.

Henry Ford III

Sarries deserved winners.

Loads of power up front. A dominant scrum. Barritt made loads of yards with hard carries. They kicked well and contested high kicks even better.

Neil3030

If only 7 of the penalties came from the scrum, how many came in open play? Must be nearly 20....

pc7

thomond2006 wrote: »

Itoje is incredible. When he has so many borderline penalty incidents you realise it's skill and not luck. He's a machine.

Reminds me of McCaw, rolls the dice and 99% it goes his way

AbusesToilets

thomond2006 wrote: »

Itoje was MOTM for me. Rhodes gave away an incredibly cheap penalty with his late hit on Sexton that put Leinster back in the game. Saracens had a penalty reversed because of it.

Itoje is incredible. When he has so many borderline penalty incidents you realise it's skill and not luck. He's a machine.

It's infuriating, so blatantly illegal with his technique, yet he gets away with it again and again

Paul Smeenus

thecomedian wrote: »

I don’t think Porter is good enough against the best. He’s still improving but there’s a big gap at the moment.

And Kelleher. There's a reason Herring is currently preferred for the national team. He's known as a good scrummaging hooker. He doesn't have the bells and whistles Ronan has, but youse might not have given away quite so many penalties today with him in the front row.

Exclamation Marc

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Why do Leinster think that they can start in lower gear at kick-off and think it'll be fine? Saracens are not a Pro-14 team and they played with guile and ferociousness from the first whistle. Leinster did not.

"Thinking they can start at a lower gear"??

I think you're ignoring that Saracens smothered Leinster who conversely kept failing (most frequently at the scrum).

There was no conscious slow start or arrogant approach to the game.

AbusesToilets

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

And Kelleher. There's a reason Herring is currently preferred for the national team. He's known as a good scrummaging hooker. He doesn't have the bells and whistles Ronan has, but youse might bit have given away quite so many penalties today with him in the front row.

If the ref won't call the boring in, there's not much hope for you. Saracens were also cute in the way they delayed the put in. Let them give a bit of a shove to destabilize Leinster, then got the bore on

Clegg

Think it might be time for Baird to to over as a first choice second row. Formed a very good tandem with Ryan in the second half. Toner was blown away on the first half, along with most forwards to be fair.

mike_cork

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I know it's an easy time to swan in and poke the bear (it's rare Leinster lose and all that) but the majority of posts are not blaming the referee for the loss but pointing out how bad he was.

Clearly Leinsters fault for a poor first half which made the turnaround impossible for them.

But ya know, the referee being poor and Leinster being at fault for the loss are two things that can coexist.

I am not trying to poke the bear. Leinster are a quality team and the best team in ireland without question,and i say that as a die hard munsterman.

However I don't think the ref was that bad tbh.

awec

If there is a shortlist somewhere for future Ireland coaches mark mccall has to be at the top of it.

Exclamation Marc

Neil3030 wrote: »

If only 7 of the penalties came from the scrum, how many came in open play? Must be nearly 20....

22 penalties conceded all in all.

RugbyLover123

Ireland should’ve been all over Mark McCall to replace Schmidt.

Deliverance XXV

Tough match to watch. The scrum penalties were the deciding factor. Either they scored points from them or kicked for touch taking more minutes away from potential Leinster attacks. Ref was frustrating when ignoring the Sarries offside line, but Leinster only started to do it themselves in the second half when the damage was done.

On the bright side, apart from the close up of him looking nervous in his first scrum, Ryan Baird looked very comfortable playing with the top boys.

Paul Smeenus

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If the ref won't call the boring in, there's not much hope for you. Saracens were also cute in the way they delayed the put in. Let them give a bit of a shove to destabilize Leinster, then got the bore on

True, but it's generally true of Kelleher. If you're packing down with Healy, Porter and Ryan, you should be marmelising teams in the scrum generally, and Leinster aren't.

AdamD

Absolutely cannot blame the ref for this one. Leinster were shocking in the first half. Set piece and discipline nowhere near good enough. Vincent Koch has done Leinster in two years in a row, baffled he didn't get motm, third most tackles, plays 80 minutes and is the main reason for 7 scrum penalties.

Leinster not good enough since the restart and paid for it today. Keenan and Baird the two positives for me.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

If there is a shortlist somewhere for future Ireland coaches mark mccall has to be at the top of it.

I'd say he'd be quick enough to tell the IRFU where to go after the Ulster saga, but without question they should be on their hands and knees begging to get him back in anyway shape or form

Redgirl82

mike_cork wrote: »

I am not trying to poke the bear. Leinster are a quality team and the best team in ireland without question,and i say that as a die hard munsterman.

However I don't think the ref was that bad tbh.

Henshaw grabbed a Sarries player, threw him back onside when he was trying to block in the lead up to the first Leinster try, the ref was standing beside him, Henshaw said it to him and he just looked at him

That was just one of the issues.

Leinster lost and I don’t think it was the ref fault but saying the ref was not bad is 100% incorrect