Leinster v Saracens

yerrahbah

Where would be the best place to get stats for the match?

Carries, metres made, no. of kicks that sort of thing?

The Lost Sheep

yerrahbah wrote: »

Where would be the best place to get stats for the match?

Carries, metres made, no. of kicks that sort of thing?

https://www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?gameId=295354&league=271937

ersatz

Buer wrote: »

Leinster spilling the opening kick. JGP throwing a pass to touch. Larmour f*cking a stupid offload when we had them backpedalling. Leinster not contesting the kick off directly after the second try (Saracens just ran through and caught it without even having to contest). Larmour calling a mark under his own sticks with nobody within 20m of him and being in probably the worst spot on the pitch to try and find a good touch.

All simple things, all errors/decisions that Leinster made without Saracens forcing them. All of them cost Leinster possession inside their own half. Two of the above led to shots at the posts.

Leinster were rattled early. It was obvious from the off that Saracens were bringing a lot more aggression and resolve to the game and Leinster never really got into any kind of comfort zone afterwards. The mistakes flowed from that and the relentlessness of Saracen's defense. Add to that the scrum being monstered and it's a testament to Leinster's organisation that the final score wasn't uglier. But their tactics were stale and it seemed they fell into the same trap as last year's final. Sexton's game came apart.

A word for Itoje here, he was incredible in getting up into McGrath's face when he tried to kick. On almost every occasion he was within a hair of blocking it down and it had an impact on McGrath. It was also evident just how psyched and loud he was in the early exchanges, every time Saracens won the ball he made it count verbally, good for his team and a reminder for Leinster that they were up against it.

Farrell must be a worried man. How much better would the scrum have been if we had picked from Ryan/Killer/Scannell/Tadhg/Herring/McGrath/Moore and so on, would the outcome have been different? Yesterday reminded me of Ireland v England in 2012 and it's a few years now that England and Saracens have had the better of these battles.

I think it's really hard for any team to keep the requisite level of hunger up after a run of 25 wins, remember that Ireland got over the All Blacks and England in similar circumstances. The lack of really tough opposition domestically doesn't help Leinster. Munster might have been their toughest game since they came back and, with respect, they're not up to much currently by European standards. The same goes for Ulster on today's showing. The Munster/Leinster semi a coupe of weeks ago wasn't a game that made me think the Irish team is on the up.

Buer

With some daylight between now and the match, I do take some heart from how Leinster responded. At 22-3 down, they brought themselves back into a position where they could genuinely have won the game (undeservedly). The second try was high quality stuff and it really showed that if you could tie in some Saracens defenders, they were actually vulnerable. We opened them up for massive gains on two first phase plays (the other being Henshaw/Sexton for 50m break). If we could have locked down the scrum, I do feel we'd have won given how it all panned out.

I don't know why we kept trying the same move from the maul and also trying to milk the penalty by holding Conan up in the air. It allowed them a second to arrange their maul defence. We saw that tying in their players and having clear offside line at the line out was a big boost. But there was also a clear concern and fear over the line out and a major reluctance to throw to 6 or even 4.

Regarding Sexton, his first half performance was very disappointing. The kick on the full, the concession of a needless penalty and the conservative line kicking was not what we needed. However, he did come out completely changed in the second half with a much more aggressive and organised attack. I don't think we'd have won if he stayed on but it was a loss. We definitely lost a threat there in our open field play given how the game had opened up.

I think it's time to reduce his involvement at this point, however. He's a stalwart of Irish rugby and still capable of some great showings. However, we cannot rely on a 35 year old. We need to develop the two Byrnes more. That means high level rugby for Ross and consistent Pro14 rugby for Harry. It's unlikely that either will ever get to Sexton's level but you don't need to have Sexton to win a European Cup. The major issues on Saturday were far more concentrated up front, to my mind.

Bridge93

So Rhodes avoids yellow for his high face tackle
Now been cited for a headbutt on Henshaw

And won man of the match

Happydays2020

Bridge93 wrote: »

So Rhodes avoids yellow for his high face tackle
Now been cited for a headbutt on Henshaw

And won man of the match

Any videos of the incident?

OldRio

That looks nasty and deliberate.
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1308085250170511364?s=20

Clegg

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1308085250170511364?s=19

Richie_Rich89

Wonder was Henshaw attempting a squirrel grip on him or something.

sydthebeat

That's absolutely nothing

Happydays2020

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Wonder was Henshaw attempting a squirrel grip on him or something.

Henshaw forgot to stay down. Sexton will be furious with him.

scott1974

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's absolutely nothing

If its enough for a citing then is not "absolutely nothing"

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's absolutely nothing

My bad I thought it was the ball carrying contact cos of the small screen, I'm only seeing the clash on the floor now.

If there are other angles it could be a ban

Redgirl82

Clegg wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1308085250170511364?s=19

They should be disqualified and Leinster brought back in :-)

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's absolutely nothing

Are we seeing the same incident? Henshaw being hit in the face on the ground?

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

Are we seeing the same incident? Henshaw being hit in the face on the ground?

No, I clarified two posts up

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

No, I clarified two posts up

Ah. As it stands, it looks like he's just thrown his head back into Henshaw's face. Even with mitigation, it's hard to see him not copping a week for it unless that angle is entirely misleading.

They'll need someone who is squeaky clean to come in and take his spot. Discipline is key. Fortunately, Callum Clarke is the likely replacement.

Buer

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Henshaw forgot to stay down. Sexton will be furious with him.

He genuinely will be. Stay down and draw attention to that and you're potentially playing against 14 men for the rest of the match. Que sera.

OldRio

Another angle

https://twitter.com/HarpinOnRugby/status/1308098526015037449?s=20

Buer

Not as bad or forceful on that footage. Still clearly strikes him in head though.

Yeah_Right

Now that deserved to be sanctioned. I would have said yellow but going by how refs have been calling them, probably a red. The high tackle on Sexton was nothing more than a penalty though.

I would like to say to all the Leinster fans, don't go down the rabbit hole of analysing every decision the ref made and how he got them wrong. Trust me. As an All Blacks fan, I did that for nearly 20 years. It adds to the hurt.

lawrencesummers

I can’t see how that is going to be upheld on the evidence of those clips alone.

I know the authorities have additional angles and the ability to enhance footage but it looks to me like Rhodes was looking away and can put forward the argument that as the breakdown wasn’t static he was dragged backwards and didn’t know where Henshaw was.

Neil3030

Hard to call this one... Initially didn't see a whole lot in it, but then I heard the Eggchaser lads defending him so.... I guess a 12 month ban?

errlloyd

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I would like to say to all the Leinster fans, don't go down the rabbit hole of analysing every decision the ref made and how he got them wrong. Trust me. As an All Blacks fan, I did that for nearly 20 years. It adds to the hurt.

It's less painful to analyse because they gained nothing from it. It's not like they scored off a missed forward pass. Or benefited from Henshaw having to leave the field, like ahem, another team did.

Buer

Neil3030 wrote: »

Hard to call this one... Initially didn't see a whole lot in it, but then I heard the Eggchaser lads defending him so.... I guess a 12 month ban?

If it was another player, there's a genuine case for giving benefit of the doubt here. But Rhodes has previous shockers where he looks like he has deliberately tried to hurt opponents.

Himself and Callum Clarke are genuinely well matched.

Clegg

Stuff like this is why I stopped listening to their podcast. That and the light xenophobia.

https://twitter.com/RugbyPodcast/status/1308106415882600448?s=19

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

If it was another player, there's a genuine case for giving benefit of the doubt here. But Rhodes has previous shockers where he looks like he has deliberately tried to hurt opponents.

Himself and Callum Clarke are genuinely well matched.

Very harsh to put anyone on the level of Clark.

Dravokivich

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I can’t see how that is going to be upheld on the evidence of those clips alone.

I know the authorities have additional angles and the ability to enhance footage but it looks to me like Rhodes was looking away and can put forward the argument that as the breakdown wasn’t static he was dragged backwards and didn’t know where Henshaw was.

Ah, there's no doubt he knew someone was there. He didn't have to know who.

If the eggchasers want to pin Henshaw for the wwe move, it was the sarries 5, that pushed him and forced it.

lawrencesummers

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ah, there's no doubt he knew someone was there. He didn't have to know who.

If the eggchasers want to pin Henshaw for the wwe move, it was the sarries 5, that pushed him and forced it.

I just don’t see how anything is conclusive from that video.

Dravokivich

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I just don’t see how anything is conclusive from that video.

Yeah it is hard to watch alright because the camera wasn't focused on'em and it went pretty quick. I'd expect it was just meant to shake someone off that was holding him on the ground, standard ruck fare really.

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1308122757524328448

Buer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Very harsh to put anyone on the level of Clark.

Watch what Michael Rhodes did to Siale Piutau on YouTube. It's a miracle he didn't seriously injure his neck or spine. It was very similar to how Clarke just grabbed an opponent and bent them the wrong way until something gave. Fortunately, Piutau's body came around just enough but you can see by his reaction that he was genuinely spooked by what Rhodes did.

Clarke's was horrendous but Rhodes has consistently gone beyond acceptable levels. He has multiple suspensions in his career.

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

Watch what Michael Rhodes did to Siale Piutau on YouTube. It's a miracle he didn't seriously injure his neck or spine. It was very similar to how Clarke just grabbed an opponent and bent them the wrong way until something gave. Fortunately, Piutau's body came around just enough but you can see by his reaction that he was genuinely spooked by what Rhodes did.

Clarke's was horrendous but Rhodes has consistently gone beyond acceptable levels. He has multiple suspensions in his career.

Jeez, that is pretty nasty. He's lucky he didn't break the guy's neck.

aloooof

Neil3030 wrote: »

Hard to call this one... Initially didn't see a whole lot in it, but then I heard the Eggchaser lads defending him so.... I guess a 12 month ban?

Clegg wrote: »

Stuff like this is why I stopped listening to their podcast. That and the light xenophobia.

I used to like listening to that podcast as well to keep up to date with the goings on with the English clubs. But as it went on, Tim and JB got increasingly insufferable and occasionally nasty.

It's a shame cos Phil is pretty insightful, fair and is a good man for a stat.

sydthebeat

The way Phil puts such a strong "h" into the word assume irks me no end.

Tim is OK if a bit hysterical at times, and JB just likes to play the contrarian I think

nc6000

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Very harsh to put anyone on the level of Clark.

I think what Clark did to Rob Hawkins is the worst incident I've seen in a rugby match.

lawrencesummers

nc6000 wrote: »

I think what Clark did to Rob Hawkins is the worst incident I've seen in a rugby match.

I’m surprised you have to think about it, I don’t know of anything that comes remotely close.

That’s one of the worst incidents of assault I’ve ever seen, on a field or a street.

lawrencesummers

Case dismissed.

Hardly a surprise.

Absoluvely

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’m surprised you have to think about it, I don’t know of anything that comes remotely close.

That’s one of the worst incidents of assault I’ve ever seen, on a field or a street.

Ah this comes pretty close in fairness

Bazzo

Rhodes' citing has been dismissed.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1308512454335434752?s=19

lawrencesummers

Absoluvely wrote: »

Ah this comes pretty close in fairness

That’s league, different animal, That’s how they shake hands.