Asti strike action

acequion

Icsics wrote: »

Pat King did his level best to destroy the union, an absolute disgrace of a leader

100% agree. :mad::mad:

Treppen

acequion wrote: »

No way!! if you've ever worked closely with both of them you'd see how much better Kieran is. He is loyal to the members and will always respect the democratic decision. Unlike Pat King who often did his best to subvert it.:mad:
There is also nobody in leadership trying to stop a strike if that's what the members decide to do.

Re their media skills, you have a point, though some are a lot better than others. One got himself badly caught out in an interview by not realising that restaurant tables are also at 1metre. Cringe So deffo a lot of work to be done there.

All the scattergun demands in the ballot will ensure very few teachers will agree to it. So in my view the potential for strike was killed off from the getgo. There's 3 different topics in there.

Bobtheman

Has anybody seen the ballot? I'm confused? Scatter gun demands? Please clarify?

Bobtheman

I don't think there is any point going all the way back to Pat king. We have enough evidence of poor leadership last few years. Standing committee must take the lion's share for the debacle last time. No strategy which panicked the members who had no clear idea how long the strike would go on for.
Hopefully this time the SC will have minimum red lines. Things they want and won't budge on. The health of teacher's should be a priority. High risk is high risk .
Anyway I'm voting yes. Always do the right thing even if others are not. Lead don't follow.

Bobtheman

I just saw the ballot. A lot of it is pure delusional.
We'd be lucky to get some dialogue on equal pay and the health issues for teachers- it's all pie in the sky stuff

Icsics

Bobtheman wrote: »

I just saw the ballot. A lot of it is pure delusional.
We'd be lucky to get some dialogue on equal pay and the health issues for teachers- it's all pie in the sky stuff

Is there more than one question?

2011abc

Bobtheman wrote: »

I just saw the ballot. A lot of it is pure delusional.
We'd be lucky to get some dialogue on equal pay and the health issues for teachers- it's all pie in the sky stuff

Absolutely off the wall strategy by union .Permanent full time jobs for any teacher who returns home to Ireland ?!Will ye get real and focus on pay equality for LPTs

mtoutlemonde

2011abc wrote: »

Absolutely off the wall strategy by union .Permanent full time jobs for any teacher who returns home to Ireland ?!Will ye get real and focus on pay equality for LPTs

And the teachers who stuck it out subbing/small hour contracts and most likely paying union membership still waiting for the elusive CID contract or a full time one.

doc_17

If it turns out to only 55/60% yes then that would be a catastrophic misjudgement.

Treppen

2011abc wrote: »

Absolutely off the wall strategy by union .Permanent full time jobs for any teacher who returns home to Ireland ?!Will ye get real and focus on pay equality for LPTs

And that's why they loaded this from the start.

But I'll still vote yes for the other stuff.

Bobtheman

I'm not sure what will actually end up on the ballot-to clarify what I saw was the CEC motion.
So it depends on what segments pass. I can see the unequal pay scales passing and the health issues fir individual teachers passing but little else .

SligoBrewer

2011abc wrote: »

Absolutely off the wall strategy by union .Permanent full time jobs for any teacher who returns home to Ireland ?!Will ye get real and focus on pay equality for LPTs

The union is its members and this was voted on by CEC.

The reasoning for this was not to emulate all the doctors/nurses who came home and were left high and dry, jobless.

Padre_Pio

SligoBrewer wrote: »

The union is its members and this was voted on by CEC.

The reasoning for this was not to emulate all the doctors/nurses who came home and were left high and dry, jobless.

How many came back?

The HSE ran a campaign over the last few years to bring Irish nurses home and it failed miserably.

Smacruairi

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How many came back?

The HSE ran a campaign over the last few years to bring Irish nurses home and it failed miserably.

Don't have the stats but have seen that loads came home but couldn't get a job. I'm sure the teaching council would find ways to mess up teachers returning from other areas also.

2011abc

Padre_Pio wrote: »

How many came back?

The HSE ran a campaign over the last few years to bring Irish nurses home and it failed miserably.

Several reports suggest around 56,000 medical people answered Ireland's Call for Covid 19 defence only to have about 2% of them employed by an agency on precarious contracts .

Treppen

Smacruairi wrote: »

Don't have the stats but have seen that loads came home but couldn't get a job. I'm sure the teaching council would find ways to mess up teachers returning from other areas also.

I suppose it isn't actually much to ask the few teachers who do risk everything to come back... Nevermind the struggle to get passed the Teaching Council.

Bubbaclaus

Sounds like a dangerous precedent to set to guarantee jobs for any cohort of people, nevermind people that haven't even been in the country for a few years.

Bobtheman

I'm not voting yes to the third part. The one with an impossible wish list. Yes to the one just dealing with equal pay and yes to the first two dealing with staff consensus.
Realistically bar some more PPE the government ain't gonna move on 2 metres or give permanent jobs to returning teacher's.

Bobtheman

https://www.asti.ie/news/october-ballots-information/

Bobtheman

It's a complete mess. Makes the last campaign in 2016 look like blitzkrieg. Too many questions.

SligoBrewer

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Sounds like a dangerous precedent to set to guarantee jobs for any cohort of people, nevermind people that haven't even been in the country for a few years.

If that dangerous precedent is decent working conditions for others, sign me up.

Treppen

"Unilateral changes to work practices in some schools without consultation"

I think after the week we've had in our school I'll be agreeing with that issue.

I could give you examples but it's their so "*"*"*"ing outlandish your jaw would drop.

deiseindublin

ah, come on, don't leave us hanging, we really need a laugh a few week in.

Bubbaclaus

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If that dangerous precedent is decent working conditions for others, sign me up.

What does guaranteed jobs for the lads have to do with good working conditions? I dont think you have grasped what they are suggesting here.

Treppen

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What does guaranteed jobs for the lads have to do with good working conditions? I dont think you have grasped what they are suggesting here.

Good working conditions means you don't get asked to come all the way back from a permanent job in Dubai or wherever then get shafted after promises of a job.

Then if you get a job you don't get turfed out after a few weeks.

Nurses got caught out after being begged to come back, but hey ,if you think teachers are disposable and don't mind your child having a new sub every week then this all means nothing to you.

Bubbaclaus

Treppen wrote: »

Good working conditions means you don't get asked to come all the way back from a permanent job in Dubai or wherever then get shafted after promises of a job.

Then if you get a job you don't get turfed out after a few weeks.

Nurses got caught out after being begged to come back, but hey ,if you think teachers are disposable and don't mind your child having a new sub every week then this all means nothing to you.

If I went abroad for a few years I wouldn't expect to have a permanent job waiting for me when I returned. Seems a bit daft that people have the entitlement to think they should.

Dav010

Treppen wrote: »

Good working conditions means you don't get asked to come all the way back from a permanent job in Dubai or wherever then get shafted after promises of a job.

Then if you get a job you don't get turfed out after a few weeks.

Nurses got caught out after being begged to come back, but hey ,if you think teachers are disposable and don't mind your child having a new sub every week then this all means nothing to you.

Were health care workers promised jobs? I thought the HSE’s “On call for Ireland” was a request for help at the beginning of the pandemic. It was not specifically directed at people working abroad, it included retired and career break professionals here.

I think sub teachers is better than kids being sent home because teachers are off.

Treppen

Dav010 wrote: »

Were health care workers promised jobs? I thought the HSE’s “On call for Ireland” was a request for help at the beginning of the pandemic. It was not specifically directed at people working abroad, it included retired and career break professionals here.

“We will hire everybody that we can to work in the Irish health service,” said Harris earlier this week, appealing to retired healthcare professionals and students to apply.

He made a special plea to Irish healthcare workers abroad, to those working part-time and to medical students, saying “we need you”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/over-20000-people-contact-hse-in-response-to-government-call-out-for-health-care-workers-5050181-Mar2020/

Similarly, even before covid it was put out there that Ireland want teachers to come back and throw on the green jersey. If you ever heard of the teaching council then you'll know how irish teachers abroad have battled with them to get into an irish classroom, never mind the temporary contract merrygoround.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/minister-urged-to-act-quickly-to-stop-flow-of-teachers-to-the-uae-38211039.html

Dav010 wrote: »

I think sub teachers is better than kids being sent home because teachers are off.

Ok, I can see you are aiming high for the kids, and happy enough with that.

rainbowtrout

Treppen wrote: »

Good working conditions means you don't get asked to come all the way back from a permanent job in Dubai or wherever then get shafted after promises of a job.

Then if you get a job you don't get turfed out after a few weeks.

Nurses got caught out after being begged to come back, but hey ,if you think teachers are disposable and don't mind your child having a new sub every week then this all means nothing to you.

There are posts on here regularly from people who can't get a teaching job/can only get bits of subbing here and there. So teaching jobs are either there or they're not. So the notion of 'fly in from Dubai and we'll give you a permanent job' smacks of populism.

Now if the government announced that they were going to reduce the pupil teacher ratio from 19:1 in secondary schools to say 17:1, and continue to reduce it again next year, and the same in primary schools we might be onto something.

Treppen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There are posts on here regularly from people who can't get a teaching job/can only get bits of subbing here and there. So teaching jobs are either there or they're not. So the notion of 'fly in from Dubai and we'll give you a permanent job' smacks of populism.

Now if the government announced that they were going to reduce the pupil teacher ratio from 19:1 in secondary schools to say 17:1, and continue to reduce it again next year, and the same in primary schools we might be onto something.

I hear what your saying and agree that even many local teachers are finding it tough. But there is no doubt a message IS being put it there to come home. So by union(s) mentioning the question of contracts it does put it up to the department and spin doctors. I know its wildly ambitious but it does shine a light on it, rather than a wooly statement requesting ' that the issue of part time contracts be looked at'.

It's been pushed and pushed that we need teachers, but really all they want is canon fodder for a few weeks then churn onto the next hungry batch.

I've heard of a few schools who have put together a 'super sub' based in one school and travels around and that is great that that teacher has job security and a constant wage. That's in Primary though so not sure it can be done subject-wise in secondary.