Stage 21 Paris

Macy0161

Morkov is 35 as well at this stage. It's not just about the sprint, it's the positioning the whole way to the final that he has to do. There's a reason he's still at DQS, while sprinters come and go. Lefevere knows his value. What's amazing about Morkov is that it doesn't seem to matter which sprinter - so often they come as a pair.

As for whether the best lead out men can do it themselves, there's a whole mental aspect to the pressure to deliver. They're no different to mountain domestiques in a way - might have the numbers to win, but can they handle being the focus? Renshaw who was mentioned above, basically went for one contract and then was back leading out Cav.

Inquitus

Macy0161 wrote: »

Morkov is 35 as well at this stage. It's not just about the sprint, it's the positioning the whole way to the final that he has to do. There's a reason he's still at DQS, while sprinters come and go. Lefevere knows his value. What's amazing about Morkov is that it doesn't seem to matter which sprinter - so often they come as a pair.

As for whether the best lead out men can do it themselves, there's a whole mental aspect to the pressure to deliver. They're no different to mountain domestiques in a way - might have the numbers to win, but can they handle being the focus? Renshaw who was mentioned above, basically went for one contract and then was back leading out Cav.

How highly does Leferve rate Sam's achievement, as we know he is ruthless, but a genius with that ruthlessness. Sam's earnt his shot at next years tour imho, will Leferve see it the same way?

breezy1985

Dodge wrote: »

Morkov knows his role. He won’t beat the top sprinters. It’s 7 years since he won a race outside of Denmark

It sounds like I’m trying to knock him and I’m really not. The top lead out men get well paid because their job is so hard to do right.

I don't expect him to be given anything big the odd low ranked race if that's what he wants

Macy0161

Inquitus wrote: »

How highly does Leferve rate Sam's achievement, as we know he is ruthless, but a genius with that ruthlessness. Sam's earnt his shot at next years tour imho, will Leferve see it the same way?

Two year contract - don't see DQS signing anyone else. They've other sprinters, but none you could see taking the slot. I'd say if anything, he might have more hope of getting the mullet a place too.

mr spuckler

Inquitus wrote: »

How highly does Leferve rate Sam's achievement, as we know he is ruthless, but a genius with that ruthlessness. Sam's earnt his shot at next years tour imho, will Leferve see it the same way?

And we know he pays smaller salaries but bigger win bonuses, maybe why the team were celebrating as much as they were!

Maybe it's just optics but seeing the lead sponsor rebranding both their HQ and social media presence in response to wining green seems pretty significant. It might be that Sam is under more pressure to deliver green than stage wins next year...

After that it might be Sam's call if he prioritises winning with his dream team over a big money contract elsewhere, a la Viviani.

Dodge

Sam can do what he wants really. Stage wins at his last 3 grand tours and a green jersey win means every team without a genuine GC contender will want him

He proved with the Bora contract thing that he’s not afraid to back himself too

Inquitus

Dodge wrote: »

Sam can do what he wants really. Stage wins at his last 3 grand tours and a green jersey win means every team without a genuine GC contender will want him

He proved with the Bora contract thing that he’s not afraid to back himself too

DQS is his dream team and Tom Boonen his hero, can't see him moving tbh, success seems worth more than a minor wage bump to the guy! Plus imho you have to be mad to leave the wolfpack, very few succeed afterwards!

Panrich

Inquitus wrote: »

How highly does Leferve rate Sam's achievement, as we know he is ruthless, but a genius with that ruthlessness. Sam's earnt his shot at next years tour imho, will Leferve see it the same way?

Wasn't there talk of Leferve stepping down soon? I think I read somewhere that Boonen was in line to replace him.

mr spuckler

Panrich wrote: »

Wasn't there talk of Leferve stepping down soon? I think I read somewhere that Boonen was in line to replace him.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/patrick-lefevere-looks-ahead-retirement-tom-boonen-become-successor-quick-step-443940

Macy0161

Inquitus wrote: »

DQS is his dream team and Tom Boonen his hero, can't see him moving tbh, success seems worth more than a minor wage bump to the guy! Plus imho you have to be mad to leave the wolfpack, very few succeed afterwards!

I'd love to see Sam give the cobbles ago. I've been saying it a few years, certainly since some of the stuff he got over (dropping other sprinters) in that Giro.

harringtonp

Inquitus wrote: »

DQS is his dream team and Tom Boonen his hero, can't see him moving tbh, success seems worth more than a minor wage bump to the guy! Plus imho you have to be mad to leave the wolfpack, very few succeed afterwards!

EVenepoel although young and injured this year is a genuine GC contender. It will be interesting to see how they in future play that with stage wins. I know JAP was in that position last year but that was an anomaly.

ednwireland

harringtonp wrote: »

The way he was able to split Sam and Sagan in the intermediate sprints would suggest to me that if he was sprinting for himself he would be a regular top ten flat stage finisher at any level.

Guys like that need to be looked after well if a team wants to keep them

remember when mark renshaw tried to be a lead sprinter ? didnt work out well. think theres a mindset in the last 300 metres

Inquitus

ednwireland wrote: »

remember when mark renshaw tried to be a lead sprinter ? didnt work out well. think theres a mindset in the last 300 metres

Also a big gap in Power between a leadout man putting out x Watts for the last km or 2 versus that short high power burst required to win the stage.

Doc07

dulpit wrote: »

Speaking of lead out, one thing I noticed in a video shared previously with an on board camera (possibly on Morkov?) is that there didn't seem to be any words exchanged between any of the cyclists, it was almost instinctual for all parties. Some training I guess..

I noticed that also and wondered was it just the way it was recorded. Vaguely remember a similar video of Degenkolb leading for Kittel and the roaring and shouting was incredible

TheBlaaMan

Doc07 wrote: »

I noticed that also and wondered was it just the way it was recorded. Vaguely remember a similar video of Degenkolb leading for Kittel and the roaring and shouting was incredible

They use other forms of communication

https://twitter.com/GregVanAvermaet/status/1307974277338148864?s=20

breezy1985

dulpit wrote: »

Speaking of lead out, one thing I noticed in a video shared previously with an on board camera (possibly on Morkov?) is that there didn't seem to be any words exchanged between any of the cyclists, it was almost instinctual for all parties. Some training I guess..

The first time I went to watch a pro race my biggest surprise was how loud a peleton load of drivechains sounds

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

The first time I went to watch a pro race my biggest surprise was how loud a peleton load of drivechains sounds

And the speed!!!!!!! You just can't get the same feel for it on TV

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And the speed!!!!!!! You just can't get the same feel for it on TV

For me it was on the inside line of the final bend across from big Ben in the tour of Britain. Not only the noise and speed but also the peleton dipped so hard into the turn that I thought they would headbutt the crowd

In a nice link to this thread Sam came 2nd to Cavendish that day back when he was still with An Post

neris

breezy1985 wrote: »

The first time I went to watch a pro race my biggest surprise was how loud a peleton load of drivechains sounds

The Nissan classic used to pass near by us on the descent from howth when I was young but never really had an interest in it. The only other pro race I've seen was when the Giro passed through where I live now in 2014 and was a real anti climax. 15km from the finish I thought the best spot was beside a roundabout, just in case. 3 or 4 lads came cruising through then the peleton then the stragglers and I managed to get back home to watch the finish on tv. I had spent weeks before not giving a **** about the road resurfacing works knowing what was going to happen and then it was a bit like "that's it wtf". Maybe as I get b older I prefer watching games or cycling live on tv and know what's gong on

Yeah most racing is blink and you miss it at the road side, stuff like the nationals or any race with local laps and you can single lads out to cheer when the race breaks up over climbs is worth it at least once if you're into racing.

Inquitus

https://www.deceuninck-quickstep.com/en/shop/product/136/wolfpack-t-shirt-green-belongs-to-ireland-available-from-20th-october

JMcL

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah most racing is blink and you miss it at the road side, stuff like the nationals or any race with local laps and you can single lads out to cheer when the race breaks up over climbs is worth it at least once if you're into racing.

The criteriums in Dublin city center in the late 80's were good for being able to see stuff. Nice tight circuits (one down around the Green/Kildare St and another up around Christchurch)/ Can't remember at this remove whether they were competitive or just for show - there was a series of city center races at the time in the UK that carried points and I think at least one or two of the Dublin events would have fallen under this. They always attracted a good field though, not only the home grown stars but a decent smattering of the top Dutch pros that kept Kelly on his toes and other

Aside from these I saw most of the starts and finish of the Nissan Classics (didn't they do several laps of O'Connell St/Parnell square on the finish?) and the prologue and finish of stage 1 on the Tour in '98. I was probably about 100m from the line in the Park and it was over in seconds

Macy0161

JMcL wrote: »

The criteriums in Dublin city center in the late 80's were good for being able to see stuff. Nice tight circuits (one down around the Green/Kildare St and another up around Christchurch)/ Can't remember at this remove whether they were competitive or just for show - there was a series of city center races at the time in the UK that carried points and I think at least one or two of the Dublin events would have fallen under this. They always attracted a good field though, not only the home grown stars but a decent smattering of the top Dutch pros that kept Kelly on his toes and other

It's in Rough Ride for the 87 ones anyway, that the Irish lads wanted them to be a European style fix, and the UK lads wanted to race and/or split the prizes themselves. Anyway, the "Fab Four" (as I think the chapter is called) decided if the brits wanted to race, they'd race, and won.

check_six

neris wrote: »

The Nissan classic used to pass near by us on the descent from howth when I was young but never really had an interest in it. The only other pro race I've seen was when the Giro passed through where I live now in 2014 and was a real anti climax. 15km from the finish I thought the best spot was beside a roundabout, just in case. 3 or 4 lads came cruising through then the peleton then the stragglers and I managed to get back home to watch the finish on tv. I had spent weeks before not giving a **** about the road resurfacing works knowing what was going to happen and then it was a bit like "that's it wtf". Maybe as I get b older I prefer watching games or cycling live on tv and know what's gong on

We got to see the end of the Giro stage that finished in Merrion Square. It was a bit more lively in there. We got a spot that had a good view of the corner coming off Westland Row and leading on to the finishing sprint up Merrion Square West. You couldn't see the peloton approaching, but you could hear them. First the thumping of the helicopter overhead, then the roar of the crowd on Westland Row, then the whoosh of the sprint teams blasting into view and thundering up towards the finish line. Kittel's teammates (for it was he who won) rolled past in high spirts towards the back of the peloton. Got a big cheer.

breezy1985

Macy0161 wrote: »

It's in Rough Ride for the 87 ones anyway, that the Irish lads wanted them to be a European style fix, and the UK lads wanted to race and/or split the prizes themselves. Anyway, the "Fab Four" (as I think the chapter is called) decided if the brits wanted to race, they'd race, and won.

There was a series of Ireland v the UK crits held in Ireland which ended with Ireland winning the series down in Cork but only after Roche crashed into UKs main sprinter in the final Kms which was claimed to be deliberate by the UK riders

Dodge

There was a round of the Halford Tour Series in Dublin in 2010 or so too. Dan Martin won ahead of some An Post lads and the usual British conti riders

Think there was one in Belfast too that week

Lucky to have seen the Tour and Giro visit Dublin. Just need the Vuelta now

breezy1985

Dodge wrote: »

There was a round of the Halford Tour Series in Dublin in 2010 or so too. Dan Martin won ahead of some An Post lads and the usual British conti riders

Think there was one in Belfast too that week

Lucky to have seen the Tour and Giro visit Dublin. Just need the Vuelta now

Only ticked the Tour so far but in London which lasted 10 seconds and had more tourists than tour fans. I did go to the WC in Yorkshire which was way a better experience as the place was full of Dutch, Norwegians, Belgians and the rest all decked out and singing and boozing like it was a soccer match or something.
When we get back to normal I've promised myself either a tour stage in France or The Ronde Van vVaanderen