Apprenticeship rates are just depressing

heffo500

Carter D wrote: »

Hi I know attitude is important especially for the first year as the pay is low and have to think in the long run.

Does pay only go up once you finish a year or each phase ?
As I have heard you could be in phase 1 for a year before going to phase 2.

Going by rates online if over 20 years of age you get €9.26 which is
€370 a week, which is pretty good for a first year apprentice

Then I seen these rates aswell
Phase 2 €274.95
Phase 4 €412.23
Phase 6 €595.53
4th Year €733.20

So what rate is it ?

Have you a source for the 20 years of age thing?

Carter D

Apprenticeship in phase is

Phase 1 on the job 3 months
Phase 2 20 weeks college
Phase 3 on the job 6 months
Phase 4 10 to 11 weeks college
Phase 5 on the job 6 months
Phase 6 10 to 11 weeks college
Phase 7 on the job 3 months
Qualified

If you do 6 months in phase 1 before getting called to phase 2 am I right in thinking you will be finished by phase 6 as phase 7 is 3 months on the job which you have already done in phase 1.

Carter D

Carter D wrote: »

..............

If you do 6 months in phase 1 before getting called to phase 2 am I right in thinking you will be finished by phase 6 as phase 7 is 3 months on the job which you have already done in phase 1.

No, the extra 3 months on site at phase 1 wouldn't suffice for 3 months of post phase 6 on site work.

Hellrazer

Augeo wrote: »

What wages do ye offer fully qualified folk?

Full qualified mechanic...Between 33 and 38k.
A really good master tech whos done all manufacturer training - 45k +

Carter D

Augeo wrote: »

No, the extra 3 months on site at phase 1 wouldn't suffice for 3 months of post phase 6 on site work.

Are you sure as I have heard they do, as you have worked a year on site in phase 1 you have gone well over what is required before getting called to phase 2 so they carr over your onsite experience.

I have been told to stay well clear of Manning & Buckley electrical as they take on 10 or more apprentices and make you do 3 months probation then after that they only keep 2 or 3 apprentices . So they are getting cheap labour. Your employer should register you with Solas within 2 weeks .

heffo500

Carter D wrote: »

Are you sure as I have heard they do, as you have worked a year on site in phase 1 you have gone well over what is required before getting called to phase 2 so they carr over your onsite experience.

I have been told to stay well clear of Manning & Buckley electrical as they take on 10 or more apprentices and make you do 3 months probation then after that they only keep 2 or 3 apprentices . So they are getting cheap labour. Your employer should register you with Solas within 2 weeks .

Sorry where did you see the 20 year old thing online?

Carter D

heffo500 wrote: »

Sorry where did you see the 20 year old thing online?

Hi sorry yes online.

Its either 9.26 or 9.80

Apprentice rates for Ireland
National minimum wage (aged 20 and over): €9.80. Aged under 18: €6.86. Aged 18: €7.84. Aged 19: €8.82.

heffo500

Carter D wrote: »

Hi sorry yes online.

Apprentice rates for Ireland
National minimum wage (aged 20 and over): €9.80. Aged under 18: €6.86. Aged 18: €7.84. Aged 19: €8.82.

Could you send me the link?

heffo500

Carter D wrote: »

Hi sorry yes online.

Its either 9.26 or 9.80

Apprentice rates for Ireland
National minimum wage (aged 20 and over): €9.80. Aged under 18: €6.86. Aged 18: €7.84. Aged 19: €8.82.

According to the below that only applies if you're not employed in an apprenticeship scheme?

https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/guides/apprentice-rates/#:~:text=Apprentice%20rates%20for%20Ireland%20in%202019&text=So%20from%204th%20March,Aged%2018%3A%20%E2%82%AC7.84.

Jim2007

Sonics2k wrote: »

Absolutely we can rightly say there's a good qualification at the end of it, but for a lot of younger people they simply can't afford to try and live on that much, when places like Centra or Aldi are paying much more.

That is just not true, of course they can afford it - they can do the same as every other apprentice across Europe does: live at home, shared accommodation, settle for less material things etc....


My daughter is in the second year of her apprenticeship here in Switzerland and is paid CHF 1,000/month - she could get five times that amount if she went to work for one of the supermarkets. But she knows it's a dead end job.


So she lives with us and as a result needs to get up at 5:30 every morning to travel two hours to work and be on time to clock in at 8:00. To save money she sits down every evening, makes sandwiches and an evening meal two, so that she can take the second portion to work and heat up for lunch. She is not unusual, this is what everyone of her friends do as well.



The big question is are young people willing to put in the hard work and dedication to achieve something that does not result in instant gratification - some don't.

Carter D

heffo500 wrote: »

According to the below that only applies if you're not employed in an apprenticeship scheme?

https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/ie/guides/apprentice-rates/#:~:text=Apprentice%20rates%20for%20Ireland%20in%202019&text=So%20from%204th%20March,Aged%2018%3A%20%E2%82%AC7.84.

Apprentice electrician rates (Ireland): Provides a wage of €9.26 per hour depending on the level of experience.

I would say most would start on just of 6 euro an hour but if you have experience in the electrical industry before you could start at 9.26 . I have experience in the alarm, CCTV and access control.

Banana Republic 1

Sonics2k wrote: »

So, I'm currently looking at a career change. I've done a lot of management and sales work, but it's never made me happy and far too often the companies make cuts and job losses kick in.

With that in mind I thought long and hard and thought I'd check out doing a mechanics apprenticeship (at the age of 36). However, with Cork County Council announcing they're now hiring, I decided to check it out and read their information.

Link here



So after 4 years, you're finishing up on €23,000 p/a. Sure you can argue it's a trade, but how far can it really go. I'm hardly surprised that a lot of younger lads aren't bothering with trades anymore, it's a lot of back breaking work for sod all pay.

Sure, €23k a year is decent when you're 20 years old, but what about when you're 30 or 40 or 50 years old? Surely the pay won't get much better, how are you expected to start a family or even consider buying a home?

It is when you start first but a trade is almost a guarantee of working the long run

Farrell D

What salary would you be looking at getting once qualified? Industrial electrician going by jobs online around 50k - 60k is that about right ?

Farrell D

Farrell D wrote: »

What salary would you be looking at getting once qualified? Industrial electrician going by jobs online around 50k - 60k is that about right ?

That would be the upper end..... None of the large bodyshops (no offence to them but that's what they are) pay that..... As mentioned in this topic 24/hour on the large projects in the current rate. That's without lodge & overtime etc.

They are charged to client at 45 ish..... 45/hour charge won't pay a 60k salary. Well it will but there's no appreciable margin so it can't happen

Plug

I was on €180 first year in 2008.
As soon as I got qualified I went off to western Australia.
I now earn $86000 a year.

Get qualified and get the heck out is my answer.

Plug

Plug wrote: »

I was on €180 first year in 2008.
As soon as I got qualified I went off to western Australia.
I now earn $86000 a year.

Get qualified and get the heck out is my answer.

Minimum wage in Australia is about 40k iirc so 86k isn't unreal money..... Irish minimum wage is 20k and a spark will get 40k+ ..... Money might go further in Australia of course but things aren't bad in Ireland IMO.

Plug

Plug wrote: »

I was on €180 first year in 2008.
As soon as I got qualified I went off to western Australia.
I now earn $86000 a year.

Get qualified and get the heck out is my answer.

That's 52-53k euro. Surely that's within realms of possibility for an experienced electrician in Ireland?

Obviously it's a good wage in either currency.

Augeo wrote: »

Money might go further in Australia of course but things aren't bad in Ireland IMO.

I don't really know if it does. I've only been there as a tourist but it certainly ain't cheap.

salmocab

Augeo wrote: »

That would be the upper end..... None of the large bodyshops (no offence to them but that's what they are) pay that..... As mentioned in this topic 24/hour on the large projects in the current rate. That's without lodge & overtime etc.

They are charged to client at 45 ish..... 45/hour charge won't pay a 60k salary. Well it will but there's no appreciable margin so it can't happen

24 an hour pays about 48,600 a year basic.
Very few tradesmen only get basic so over 50k would be easily achieved.

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

24 an hour pays about 48,600 a year basic.
Very few tradesmen only get basic so over 50k would be easily achieved.

Yes, but when discussing the actual salary the basic salary is key. Using lodge and overtime etc etc is grand but not everyone wants to do OT, most folk I know have little interest in doing it anyway

Farrell D

I would be be happy on 50k once qualified can do over time aswell but most jobs online are over €24 an hour other 26- 27 euro

I have friends who went to college got there degree, were making much more then me .there wage hasn't gone up much and i am on more then them and not qualified yet.

aido79

Farrell D wrote: »

I would be be happy on 50k once qualified can do over time aswell but most jobs online are over €24 an hour other 26- 27 euro

I have friends who went to college got there degree, were making much more then me .there wage hasn't gone up much and i am on more then them and not qualified yet.

What did they study in college?

arccosh

I'm glad I stuck out the engineering degree looking at those numbers.... was always jealous of my mates in apprenticeships and other full time jobs when in college, all the cash.

salmocab

arccosh wrote: »

I'm glad I stuck out the engineering degree looking at those numbers.... was always jealous of my mates in apprenticeships and other full time jobs when in college, all the cash.

In fairness they are numbers that are fairly basic, most tradesmen especially electricians move onto something better paid using their skills. Very few old electricians on building sites.

salmocab

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, but when discussing the actual salary the basic salary is key. Using lodge and overtime etc etc is grand but not everyone wants to do OT, most folk I know have little interest in doing it anyway

Agreed that’s why I said getting over 50 would be easy enough it’s only 1500 extra in the year which would only take a handful of Saturdays to get. I was never too bothered doing Saturdays but they were just inevitable sometimes as some work just needs to be out of hours.

Farrell D

aido79 wrote: »

What did they study in college?

Most of them Business, computers
Data analytics most work In banking or call centres.

Farrell D

Farrell D wrote: »

Most of them Business, computers
Data analytics most work In banking or call centres.

How much do you reckon your friends in data analytics are earning? There's a fairly high ceiling there if you play your cards right.

Philly Rock

Since our last update in October, priority work has been underway to minimise the waiting and completion times for craft apprenticeship training. Public health restrictions remain in place which have reduced the number of apprentices who can be called for off the job training. However, SOLAS and the HEA are working closely with further and higher education providers around the country to add the maximum amount of training capacity possible via remote online learning and assessment and additional space for practical training and assessment. It is intended that the additional capacity and supports for apprentices will be introduced from January 2021 onwards. Over the coming weeks and months there will be a particular focus on solutions to tackle any delays that apprentices have experienced due to Covid-19, and so that apprentices can, in the right timeframe, achieve their craft certificate award. A further update on plans will be provided in mid-December 2020.


Message from solas I only started my apprenticeship 6 months ago I dont fancy waiting another year to get to phase 2 you shouldn't be on phase 1 that long and still getting peanuts lucky I make extra money on the side If j didnt i wouldn't be able to live.

How can they make sure your finished your apprenticeship within 4 years of taking so long to get called to phase 2?

Would you still have to do 3 months on the job for phase 7 once you finished phase 6 in college as you have worked up on the job training so much already.

Paul_Mc1988

Philly Rock wrote: »

Since our last update in October, priority work has been underway to minimise the waiting and completion times for craft apprenticeship training. Public health restrictions remain in place which have reduced the number of apprentices who can be called for off the job training. However, SOLAS and the HEA are working closely with further and higher education providers around the country to add the maximum amount of training capacity possible via remote online learning and assessment and additional space for practical training and assessment. It is intended that the additional capacity and supports for apprentices will be introduced from January 2021 onwards. Over the coming weeks and months there will be a particular focus on solutions to tackle any delays that apprentices have experienced due to Covid-19, and so that apprentices can, in the right timeframe, achieve their craft certificate award. A further update on plans will be provided in mid-December 2020.


Message from solas I only started my apprenticeship 6 months ago I dont fancy waiting another year to get to phase 2 you shouldn't be on phase 1 that long and still getting peanuts lucky I make extra money on the side If j didnt i wouldn't be able to live.

How can they make sure your finished your apprenticeship within 4 years of taking so long to get called to phase 2?

Would you still have to do 3 months on the job for phase 7 once you finished phase 6 in college as you have worked up on the job training so much already.

I know someone in phase 4 electrical in sligo. He becomes a 4th year in December. He'll most likely do phase 6 sep-dec next year. Once out his boss can sign off the phase 7 immediately and hell be qualified.

When I completing my apprenticeship during the recession and there was no jobs to be found we were told that you had to complete 208weeks training and that was it. I was with three companys and missed most of phase 3. Ended up needing to work 30 weeks for phase 7.

Farrell D

Philly Rock wrote: »

Message from solas I only started my apprenticeship 6 months ago I dont fancy waiting another year to get to phase 2 you shouldn't be on phase 1 that long and still getting peanuts lucky I make extra money on the side If j didnt i wouldn't be able to live.

How can they make sure your finished your apprenticeship within 4 years of taking so long to get called to phase 2?

Would you still have to do 3 months on the job for phase 7 once you finished phase 6 in college as you have worked up on the job training so much already.

No reason why you shouldn't be called to phase 2 once you have worked 6 months on the job .
I got called to phase 2 under a year just keep ringing them after you've worked 6 months on in the job your name will be fresh in there mind they will be sick of you haha.

Your employer wont do anything they will be happy to just leave you on the low wage. Dont stay with the one company either if you feel your not learning try move to a smaller company.

I dont no anybody who didnt finish in the 4 years.

Philly Rock

Hi lads

What would you say is your likes and dislikes of working in the electrician trade ?

Would travelling be one of the worse?
Would you have to stay in hotels much if work was to far away from your house ?

Paying for parking if have no parking on site ?

salmocab

Philly Rock wrote: »

Hi lads

What would you say is your likes and dislikes of working in the electrician trade ?

Would travelling be one of the worse?
Would you have to stay in hotels much if work was to far away from your house ?

Paying for parking if have no parking on site ?

That’s very dependant on where you live.

Philly Rock

salmocab wrote: »

That’s very dependant on where you live.

True as most work is in Dublin but you can be sent all over place let's say just outside Dublin

Philly Rock

Philly Rock wrote: »

.................
Would you have to stay in hotels much if work was to far away from your house ?

...........

Lodge payment is essentially to pay for a houseshare or low cost B&B.

Country money
Employees in some sectors, such as the construction industry, are often required to travel to work at different sites. Expenses of travel and subsistence may be paid tax free to a site-based employee, up to the ‘country money’ rates below.

This allowance is only available where the employee is working at a site that is 32km (20 miles) or more from the employer’s base. If the employee is Dublin based, the allowance only applies if they are working 32km or more from the General Post Office (GPO).

Country Money Rates
€181.68 per week for more than four days
€36.34 per day for four days or less

This is it

I lived within an hour of Dublin when I worked as a sparks. Can probably count on one hand the amount of times I had to stay over for work down the country, it was few and far between and if I did have to stay over night the company paid for it along with dinner in the evening.

Parking was a pain when working in Dublin city centre. If you've a van from the company everything will be paid, otherwise you're facing a hefty monthly bill for parking.

This will be the same for most trade jobs, not just a sparks.

If you're traveling the country then you'll likely have a van or be with someone who has a van.

...... on large jobs where the likes of HA O Neill / Jones Eng or Mercury etc etc have hundreds of craft folk on the site you'd count on a few hands the number of company vans there...... most of the craft folk would be in their own car. (some, not many would drive a private van or Jeep)

This is it

Augeo wrote: »

...... on large jobs where the likes of HA O Neill / Jones Eng or Mercury etc etc have hundreds of craft folk on the site you'd count on a few hands the number of company vans there...... most of the craft folk would be in their own car. (some, not many would drive a private van or Jeep)

Would they be traveling the country? I'd have thought most of those were based near enough to site, within an hour say. Nothing to base that on to be honest.

Dunno ......... but on large jobs that last 12/24 months there has to be a significant proportion of folk living away from home a few nights a week. So surely some folk are actually spending their lodge on lodgings as opposed to diesel/petrol
I'm on a site occasionally (Dublin) and one of the foremen is from and living in Donegal........ he's not been working near home in years. Relocating family isn't an option.

Philly Rock

So would it be best to get into the bigger companys as most work will be in Dublin and parking will be available on large sites .

Thats one thing I hate is paying for parking your weekly wage would be nearly gone on parking let alone fuel

I sometimes think is it worth finishing it or move into a different sector.

Chances of getting a company van is low so I use my own car which i don't mind

Depends what boxes you need to tick TBH.
I'm sure the big companies could send you to a large construction project in city centre where site parking might be limited.

Loads of folk pay for parking.... I'd not let it decide a career for me.
I can't imagine how it wouldn't be worth finishing a trade TBH.

salmocab

Generally parking on big suburban sites but practically non existent on inner city ones. Big companies could send you anywhere. Honestly if your worried about parking then I’d be looking around for something that suits you. Any company can send you wherever they need you. A small local company might be better then you might be able to jump in the bosses van in the morning and burn his diesel.

SeanH91

Hi lads any recommendations for a good ladder easy to put up and take down ?
Also work Goggles not cheap ones

Cheers

Lleyn elec

SeanH91 wrote: »

Hi lads any recommendations for a good ladder easy to put up and take down ?
Also work Goggles not cheap ones

Cheers

Have a waku here, they’re expensive but worth it.

SeanH91

Hi lads I started my apprenticeship around 3 months ago
My first choice was Electrical Instrumentation

Anyone know of what companys to apply for?
Would going over Domestic in phase 2 be enough to know how that sector works ?

This is it

SeanH91 wrote: »

Hi lads I started my apprenticeship around 3 months ago
My first choice was Electrical Instrumentation

Anyone know of what companys to apply for?
Would going over Domestic in phase 2 be enough to know how that sector works ?

On the practical side I think it's phase 4 when you really start to look at motors, etc. Phase 2 is mostly based on domestic, or was when I was there 10+ years ago, with some industrial mixed in. I think we wired up a single phase motor in phase 2, not 100%

SeanH91

I'm working with a company that does electric solor panels, should I say with them for awhile or is it better to move on as get another company to take me on ?

This is it

No idea to be honest. I was always told to stay away from the really big companies where you could be stuck bending conduit for 4 years, not sure if that happens anymore though. Different companies will have pros and cons, once you're learning plenty and they aren't taking the píss then get your papers and go from there

SeanH91

This is it wrote: »

No idea to be honest. I was always told to stay away from the really big companies where you could be stuck bending conduit for 4 years, not sure if that happens anymore though. Different companies will have pros and cons, once you're learning plenty and they aren't taking the píss then get your papers and go from there

Would you really be stuck doing silly jobs or like a spotter for 4 years how can they do that to an apprentice and expect them to know how to do things once there qualified?

Yeah so I have heard with the big companies like Mercury engineering , Jones engineering are any of them good to work for as an apprentice?

How long should I give a company before knowing I wont learn anything here and move on to someone else

This is it

I don't know if it's true that that happens but when I did my phase 2 there were lads who hadn't touched a cable and couldn't wire a switch, where myself and other lads were nearly wiring a house on our own at that stage.

I only worked for one company and got great experience from them so I don't know how long you should hang around unfortunately

heffo500

I wonder if apprentice salaries were in line with graduate salaries i.e €24,000 would many more chose them over 3rd level?

KevC20

heffo500 wrote: »

I wonder if apprentice salaries were in line with graduate salaries i.e €24,000 would many more chose them over 3rd level?

Maybe but you if you can get through the first year of apprenticeship on €274.95 by your second year you will be on €412.23 If you can make an extra €100 or €200 even better.
Least you know you will get more money on each phase not sure how long it takes you get a pay rise on graduate positions