Game News 2.0

Grumpypants

Company budgets are usually annual. Being able to pay a one off big fee/bonus this year out of free cash is much simpler than trying to drip feed loads of small unknown quantities to people for years to come.

To one person it's not much to ask, but if everyone gets a % of sales that's thousands of people across multiple games getting small amounts for years to come.

That's a logistical nightmare.

She is a contract worker. She was offered a contract, it wasn't good enough in her eyes, she said no. She asked for more. it wasn't worth it / within budget for the company so they said no.

I'm al for people getting paid what their worth. But sometimes what they think they are worth and what they are worth are different.

No voice actor has ever sold a game. I've never heard anyone say oh the new x voice actor game is out.

Good voice work adds to a game, in the same way music can. But if one song costs too much you get another within your budget and move on.

B.A._Baracus

Good points there grumpy pants.

To be honest... brutally honest... who gives a ****. Do you think Taylor gives a **** if some guy is getting lowballed with pay for working in the likes of mcdonalds etc. Nope why should she. That's life. So why should we give a **** about her situation. That's also life.

Being honest further I thought this story was blown out since the start. Who gives a ****. You'd swear that some major injustice in the world had taken place with how some online were reacting lol.

Retr0gamer

...

Potential-Monke

Humanity in a nutshell.

Markitron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774669#Comment_119774669

You just reminded me of something with this. About a year after the Brexit vote I was in a taxi going from Manchester to Chester because of a car rental ****-up. The driver wouldn't shut up, droning on about the country being full up, blaming immigrants for everything, pretty much all of the xenophobic hits.

Turned out both of his parents were immigrants. Some **** people.....................

sniper_samurai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119782460#Comment_119782460

Pretty much the same story as Patel. Parents fled Idi Amins regime in Uganda to Britain, then turns around and wants to send migrants to Rwanda.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774352#Comment_119774352

You don't but many people do care about people been low balled

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119782785#Comment_119782785

You sure about that? Do yourself a favour and don't check out adverts.ie your head might exlode.

Grumpypants

She has to look out for number one, and go to get as much of the pie as she can, and screw everyone else.

No problem with that. It's turning around and then playing the victim card when her slice wasn't as big as she felt she deserves that's off putting.

A game budget is like a cake. If she gets a bigger slice someone else gets a smaller slice.

B.A._Baracus

Edit

Wrong forum

Penn

Hellena Taylor now muddying the waters again

https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1584415390171480066?s=20&t=KyZT4jig86Q2bwYcyASnWg

Says she was initially offered $10k, not $4k. After writing to Hideki Kamiya she was then offered an extra $5k, bringing it to $15k. She refused and asked for more, and was then offered just $4k but for just "some lines".

That's a huge misrepresentation of her initial claim that "The final offer to do the whole game as a buyout, flat rate, was $4,000."

In particular, she originally said that she was initially offered something low, and then after writing to Kamiya, she was then offered $4k.

https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1581290543619112960?s=20&t=KyZT4jig86Q2bwYcyASnWg

Obviously, we haven't seen any proof of claims made by Platinum/Schrier that she asked for residuals and a 6-figure sum (whatever that sum may have been), but Taylor certainly hid the truth and misrepresented things in her initial videos.

Retr0gamer

I'll have to look into this again. What she is saying here sounds more believable than the 6 figure sum nonsense from Platinum/Nintendo.

Also she says that once Jennifer was on board she was offered 4K for some additional lines which was indeed a final offer and probably quite insulting after they just broke off negotiations with her and went with someone else. I'll have to check if she mislead about the 4K offer but I feel people are getting mixed up thinking that it was the initial offer and not the final one after the role of Bayonetta was already gone.

johnny_ultimate

The $4k offer tracks with the Bloomberg report, as that said she was offered $4k for a 'cameo' appearance after the initial negotiations broke down and it was clear she wouldn't be returning in a full capacity. It was a final attempt to have her in the game in some form.

TBH, the fact that she neglected to mention her $10,000 and $15,000 offers definitely muddies the waters here alas. At the very least it has opened up a worthwhile discussion about voice actor pay and why they deserve fair compensation. Just a shame we didn't get the full story in the first place.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785821#Comment_119785821

She says in the Part 3 video above that she was given an insulting offer, and then after writing to Kamiya, was offered $4k. She said in the first part of her video that "The final offer to do the whole game as a buyout, flat rate, was $4,000." That would clearly lead people to believe she was offered less than $4k, then after writing to Kamiya was offered $4k as a final offer to do the whole game.

It's not a lie, but it's also not the truth and I think was worded in such a way to make it seem like $4k was the most she was being offered to do the whole game.

While I'm also skeptical of her asking for a 6-figure sum and/or residuals until we see proof of it, she also hasn't said how much she was looking for. She talks about asking for how much she felt it was worth, and how much money the franchise has sold for etc, but doesn't say what she was asking for or if it was comparable to other VA roles etc. But I think in her initial videos, she purposefully misrepresented the offers that were made to make it sound like she was only being offered $4k for the game as a whole (rather than $15k for the whole game, and then when that wasn't agreed to and Hale was brought in, Taylor was offered $4k for pretty much one day of lines, or a cameo of some sort).

Grumpypants

She had multiple opportunities to clarify her position and didn't. After bucket loads of articles were written saying "she was offered 4 grand for the role" it is clear that everyone that watched the video took away that she was offered 4 grand for the full game. There was a massive debate about if 4 grand for 16 hours work was "well paid".

She left that out there, the developers, publishers, and people working on the game got dogs abuse online for the week from the usual blue-haired brigade.

This new post to "clarify things" wasn't done to come clean and stop the abuse of those people. It was to again play the victim card and claim that $15,000 is not a living wage!! You need two games a year paying 15 grand to far exceed most people's living wage.

The real issue is. She sees herself as "the talent" and wildly overvalues that talent and what it brings to the game.

She pitched this as trying to stand up for Voice Actors but this will ultimately hurt them.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785966#Comment_119785966

Is it really her fault that people jumped to conclusions over what she said and journalists reported on it without doing any follow up to clarify her statement? Seems to me she told the truth but it was misconstrued so she is coming out to clarify and correct the misconceptions.

As for the blue haired brigade comment 🙄

johnny_ultimate

There's a reasonable debate to be had whether $10,000-15,000 is a fair payment for voicing a popular character - once you account for agent fees and taxes etc... it's not exactly a fortune (granted, what constitutes a significant amount of money will differ wildly from person to person). But $15,000 is still a very different proposition to the $4,000 that was initially put out in the ether as the only figure.

I see Taylor's also hitting out at 'powerful' journalists now as well for telling the full story, accusing them of being on the side of 'the industry'. Probably not the right angle to be taking here, given Schreier in particular has been doggedly on the side of workers and pro-labour across his journalism and books.

McFly85

She told the truth but was very selective with how she phrased it - and her clarifications tie in with Platinums version of events(offered up to $15k and then $4k for a cameo).

I do find it odd she doesn’t do other voice work anymore. I thought she was great as Bayonetta, and I would have thought being the voice of a fairly prominent video game character would lead to more VA work. $15k doesn’t sound like a lot but if you get a few gigs per year it’s not too bad - and I kind of assume that’s the nature of the job. Maybe she has no interest in it as a full time gig, which is fine, but it’s not up to Platinum or Nintendo to cater to that.

Retr0gamer

I think it wasn't fair going after Schreier. He reported on the information that he was given but also stipulated that he saw evidence of the 10 and 15K contracts but no evidence of the demand for 6 figures and residuals, which were mostly likely damage control lies but he wasn't in a position to call it out but stipulated there was no evidence to back it up.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119786133#Comment_119786133

I'll quote her directly. (video is posted below too).

"The final offer, to do the whole game, as a buy-out flat rate is $4,000".

I think it is fair that anyone listening to that would think that she said she was offered 4K to do the game.

She follows it up in Part three of the video saying she wrote directly to them and after that back and forth she was offered $4,000. Today she clarifies that that 4,000 was actually $5,000. And it was $5,000 on top of the initial $10,000.

She only mentions the whole game, she only mentions $4,000 and she says it twice. There was zero mention of $10,000 or $5,000 at any point.

At a stretch, you could say she got muddled up with three separate offers and in part three was talking about a third interaction that happened 11 months later when she was offered $4,000 for a smaller role.

https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1581289084718227456

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119786357#Comment_119786357

I agree. Unfortunately I don't think it's a case of her words being misconstrued, but rather she lied through omission whether intentionally or not. She made it seem as though $4k was the most she was offered to voice the role at any point in the negotiations, by omitting that the most she was offered was $15k, and when she turned it down she was offered $4k for a cameo or "some lines" (ie. not voicing the role in the full game).

Regardless of Platinum's claims about a six-figure sum or residuals, the confusion that ensued about her claims are her fault, again whether intentional or not. And she had ample time before now to clarify if news sites took her up wrong.

johnny_ultimate

I do think it's pretty indisputable that Taylor made it sound like $4,000 was the highest offer she got for the game, whether intentionally or not. The most generous reading is that it was very careless phrasing, the less generous version would be that she omitted the full details on purpose.

TBH it suggests Platinum really did want her in the game if they were willing to offer her a paid cameo even after primary negotiations broke down and the role was recast! Kamiya may be a jackass on twitter, but sounds like he also intervened to get Taylor a 50% pay rise.

Grumpypants

She got £3,000 for the first game, she says a "little more" for the second. Let's say £4,000.

So for part 3, they offered her $10,000. That is more than she made for the first two games combined. She said no.

They offered to pay her $15,000, that's three times what she made for part 2 to come back. She said no.

They offered to pay her $4,000 for a small cameo, because they still wanted to do right by her, which is what she earned for a full game in the past. She said no.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119786444#Comment_119786444

I think you are on the money there. These decisions would have been made by a casting department or more likely a company contracted out. I can imagine they wanted her back but the casting company once they got into negotiations. They made the call to just go with Jennifer which probably would have been the cheaper option as she had no pulling power since she isn't associated with the role. The decision seems to have been very mercenary, especially with just cutting off all contact with Helena during negotiations which is why I imagine it was probably a contractor with no connection to the project that was filling their brief of getting the best quality for the cheapest price. Helena's agent probably misjudged who they were dealing with and how much her being associated with the role would benefit them in negotiations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119786516#Comment_119786516

I imagine she found out that she was being low balled compared to what others in the industry were being paid so was demanding a fairer wage. I mean they paid her 3-4K for a lead role when the industry going rate is 3-4K per session. All she is looking for was a little bit more than the industry standard.

Markitron

I think this particular drama has now run its course. I wonder what the next will be, it has been a suspiciously long while since Randy Pitchford has said or done something ridiculous.....

Grumpypants

It's very easy to clear it all up. She just posts

• What did she ask for?
• How long she was asked to work for?
• What they offered.

Then everyone can see if it is fair or not.

But suspiciously she won't ever mention what she asked for. Or how much work was actually needed.

Maybe I'm in a dreamland, but to me, a job that can net you 40k a year by only working 10 days a year is not a profession I feel is underpaid.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787075#Comment_119787075

You need to take into account tax and that you have no benefits being self employed. There can be massive gaps between jobs and you aren't sitting on you ass between projects, you'd be doing maybe 50+ auditions and maybe get one of the roles, all of which take a lot of prep and graft to even get audition offers.

EoinMcLovin

https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1584551739977515008?t=NbOlqcx_WgBEq33cEoBlMg&s=19

_____

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787253#Comment_119787253

judging by her imdb profile, shes not exactly prolific, has appeared in about 22 different projects, (compared to Jennifer hale with 472) with years between each, and nothing recurring like an animated series since a few years back. I'd imagine VA work is very much a side earner for her really.

Markitron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787666#Comment_119787666

It won't fix the inherent problems with the game, but it might make it worth a replay. I have never played any of the DLC so this might be the excuse.