Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

yourdeadwright

I have to say Kelleher has to start ahead of Adrian now,
I wasn't sold on him off his previous performances but he came in last night and produced a more assured game than Adrian ever has for us ,

Fact of the matter is our keeper in most games have the ball at his feet than saves to make and the difference between him and Adrian is poles apart ,Any time Adrian plays you can see the tension in our defenders that wasn't there last night

Fair play to Kelleher he proved my doubt about his goal keeping as in shot stopping and catching crosses wrong last night and long may it continue

Ps he looks like he spent a lot of time on the weights room ,

yourdeadwright

Just seen Gini has played 6 games in the last 17 days
Surely he will be in for a rest the weekend maybe out Nat Cb and Fab into midfield , although would be a bit of a worry to have Neco and Nat together up against Adama & Podence

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just seen Gini has played 6 games in the last 17 days
Surely he will be in for a rest the weekend maybe out Nat Cb and Fab into midfield , although would be a bit of a worry to have Neco and Nat together up against Adama & Podence

Shocking he's not been tied down to a new contract yet. Despite how good our negotiation team have been, one would think they're not on the ball here.

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

Shocking he's not been tied down to a new contract yet. Despite how good our negotiation team have been, one would think they're not on the ball here.

It's one of the harder free transfers to take if he leaves,

He is so so important to us and such a brilliant understanding & application of his job in the team, Not to mention wasn't he voted 4th captain (after Hendo,Millie,VVD) so he must be respected,

He our most dependable midfielder, imagine he may never play with Big Virg again for us,

Id love to know what the problem is ,

Kelleher per his former Cork coach was a centre forward up to 6 or so years ago. Explains the footwork abilities.

AndyBoBandy

The cinematic highlights of Kelleher have arrived...but




WAIT FOR IT.......... @1.39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_2ActeCGgk

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

Kelleher per his former Cork coach was a centre forward up to 6 or so years ago. Explains the footwork abilities.

He actually played on the Cork select side as a forward and the following season as keeper, An injury to his sides keeper was what made him change,

~Rebel~

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It's one of the harder free transfers to take if he leaves,

He is so so important to us and such a brilliant understanding & application of his job in the team, Not to mention wasn't he voted 4th captain (after Hendo,Millie,VVD) so he must be respected,

He our most dependable midfielder, imagine he may never play with Big Virg again for us,

Id love to know what the problem is ,

He wants a 4-year high-wage commitment from the club, which would make him 34 in his last year. The club already look to have 2 other midfielders that will be in the same boat, in Thiago and Hendo, and seem reluctant to add a third as it really skews the balance of midfield - like potentially having 3 late-stage Milners.

I get it to be honest. I think some of the concern also comes with his game being more based around his agility and physicality, things more likely to go with age than someone like Thiago’s passing range.

So the club are content to give him 3 on high wages, but reluctant to stretch to 4.

Knex*

Not sure whether intentional or not, but Klopp confirmed that TAA had covid at the start of the season. I was pretty much convinced he did anyway, but interesting to have it confirmed.

He definitely looked sluggish. Although whether that was purely from a lack of a preseason or a mixture of that and covid, who knows.

yourdeadwright

Knex* wrote: »

Not sure whether intentional or not, but Klopp confirmed that TAA had covid at the start of the season. I was pretty much convinced he did anyway, but interesting to have it confirmed.

He definitely looked sluggish. Although whether that was purely from a lack of a preseason or a mixture of that and covid, who knows.

Where did he confirm it ?

I agree he did look like he was struggling ,

dogbert27

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The cinematic highlights of Kelleher have arrived...but




WAIT FOR IT.......... @1.39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_2ActeCGgk

What's good from that highlight reel is to see how comfortable he is using both feet.

Maybe he could teach Salah to use his right foot! :pac:

yourdeadwright

So 1500 in the Kop this weekend and 500 in the Main Stand ,

The vaccine starting to roll out next week in the UK

Could we see a full stadium by the end of March ?

How amazing would it be to be in touching distance of the top of table just as the fans come back to roar Liverpool home to a successive league title,

Of course with VVD coming off the bench on the last day to head the winner against Palace ,

AndyBoBandy

dogbert27 wrote: »

What's good from that highlight reel is to see how comfortable he is using both feet.

There was a situation as well at, 1:04, and you'd just know that if it was Adrian, he'd have tried to do a step over and turn the attacker...... and if it did end up working out for him, he'd still give the ball anyway!!

rob316

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He wants a 4-year high-wage commitment from the club, which would make him 34 in his last year. The club already look to have 2 other midfielders that will be in the same boat, in Thiago and Hendo, and seem reluctant to add a third as it really skews the balance of midfield - like potentially having 3 late-stage Milners.

I get it to be honest. I think some of the concern also comes with his game being more based around his agility and physicality, things more likely to go with age than someone like Thiago’s passing range.

So the club are content to give him 3 on high wages, but reluctant to stretch to 4.

There is alot of miles on Gini, no one can keep up what he does, the drop will be sharp when it happens. Be sad to see him leave but the club is right here not offering a 4 year big money contract.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He actually played on the Cork select side as a forward and the following season as keeper, An injury to his sides keeper was what made him change,

Yeah, that's what his coach said. It was his dad that rang the coach and suggested he try him in goal! ONE year later and Liverpool came in for him.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

There is alot of miles on Gini, no one can keep up what he does, the drop will be sharp when it happens. Be sad to see him leave but the club is right here not offering a 4 year big money contract.

He's just 30. Give him the 4 years and sell him after 3 years if necessary. Leaving him him go on a free seems mad. Klopp seems to agree.

Fitz*

A rough guide to the injuries this season.

Green - Started or played enough minutes worth talking about
Yellow - On the bench or played a minor number of minutes from the bench
Red - Injured / COVID
Grey - left out of the squad

Last nights game is the game when the squad was stretched the most - I think the real lack of quality on the bench showed that. The latter half of November in general has been very tough.

Hopefully now with the supposed soon-ish return of TAA, Keita, Ox & Shaq, we can start to see some real rotation with quality, especially in midfield. Gini really really needs a rest. Robbo could do with having 90 off aswell. I'm sure Mane & Jota would benefit too. Midweek off next week is ideal now for those players.

atilladehun

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's just 30. Give him the 4 years and sell him after 3 years if necessary. Leaving him him go on a free seems mad. Klopp seems to agree.

Who will pay his wages in three years when he's more clearly out of steam

AndyBoBandy

atilladehun wrote: »

Who will pay his wages in three years when he's more clearly out of steam

We sell him to Barcelona for a nominal fee of £10m - £30m in 2-3 years, when the club identify the beginning of any decline in performance.

ERG89

atilladehun wrote: »

Who will pay his wages in three years when he's more clearly out of steam

He will play more games than Oxlade Chamberlain & Keita will combined if he stays. Those two's wages would be a bigger drain.

atilladehun

ERG89 wrote: »

He will play more games than Oxlade Chamberlain & Keita will combined if he stays. Those two's wages would be a bigger drain.

I agree swapping them out in the summer for fit players would be great. I like them both as players but percentage of games available is too low.

Gbear

ERG89 wrote: »

He will play more games than Oxlade Chamberlain & Keita will combined if he stays. Those two's wages would be a bigger drain.

And we might still make a few quid off them.
Keita's top class. A mid level club in England or abroad would probably be happy enough to take him on for the 20-odd games a season, so long as the price was right.
He's probably not on huge wages.

Ox might be trickier. We paid a lot for him, and I'd imagine he's on a fair bit. One can only hope it's heavily incentive based. Still, he'd be in a fairly similar boat. He'd be a great addition of quality for mid-table clubs.

Unless something drastically changes for either of them, I'd like to see them both moved on in the summer (hopefully off the back of full reopening of stadia so that the financial situation stabilises). Curtis is looking fully capable of at least being a solid squad option, and Gini's a machine, and we won't be left that short by players who don't play anyway. One top class midfielder would fill the gap of Gini's reduction in minutes as he ages, and the odd appearance by Ox and Keita.

rob316

Deleted User wrote: »

He's just 30. Give him the 4 years and sell him after 3 years if necessary. Leaving him him go on a free seems mad. Klopp seems to agree.

Firmino looks knackered, Klopp's style of play is hard on the body. I've concerns over the age of the midfield with the addition of Thiago and given Keita hasn't worked out. You have Jones then but he's a few years away from been a regular starter. The squad was built on players on players of about 23-25 and we lack numbers in that age now, Trent, Jota and Gomez off the top of my head are the key players.

rob316

I've been busy lately so I've been in and out of watching games fully but I got to watch every minute last night and I was so impressed with Jota. His link up play, pressing and just work rate was excellent, he can play that Firmino role and currently offer a better goal threat. Outstanding player, real under the radar signing.

Gbear

I thought Firmino was quite good at the weekend too.

I don't think it's an either or for Klopp at the moment, other than because he's trying to keep everyone fresh.

Enzokk

rob316 wrote: »

I've been busy lately so I've been in and out of watching games fully but I got to watch every minute last night and I was so impressed with Jota. His link up play, pressing and just work rate was excellent, he can play that Firmino role and currently offer a better goal threat. Outstanding player, real under the radar signing.

And like most Portugese players he is cynical as well. He likes a shout and roll around when fouled and seems to be the only one, maybe Shaq, in our squad that does this. Our other players are very honest when compared to their fellow professionals when it comes to this and it is to our detriment sometimes.

rossie1977

atilladehun wrote: »

Who will pay his wages in three years when he's more clearly out of steam

3 years time on this date he will be:

six months younger than Messi is now
six months older than Robert Lewandowski is right now
3 years younger than Ronaldo
2 years younger than James Milner is at this present
1 year younger than Jamie Vardy
1 year younger than Luis Suarez

sweetie

rob316 wrote: »

There is alot of miles on Gini, no one can keep up what he does, the drop will be sharp when it happens. Be sad to see him leave but the club is right here not offering a 4 year big money contract.

any chance of the lotto numbers?

murpho999

rob316 wrote: »

Firmino looks knackered, Klopp's style of play is hard on the body. I've concerns over the age of the midfield with the addition of Thiago and given Keita hasn't worked out. You have Jones then but he's a few years away from been a regular starter. The squad was built on players on players of about 23-25 and we lack numbers in that age now, Trent, Jota and Gomez off the top of my head are the key players.

Are you talking about the same Firmino who scored last week?

I really wonder how people see that players are knackered as I just don't see it.

Klopp's players are all well trained and super fit.

I don't think it's that hard on the body as they're on the ball a lot which makes the physicality easier.
It's tougher on the opposition when they have to try and defend against us.

I think there's a lot of misinformation about Klopp and his style mainly due to one poor start to a season with Dortmund after 2 consecutive league wins.

Tusky

murpho999 wrote: »

Are you talking about the same Firmino who scored last week?

I really wonder how people see that players are knackered as I just don't see it.

Klopp's players are all well trained and super fit.

I don't think it's that hard on the body as they're on the ball a lot which makes the physicality easier.
It's tougher on the opposition when they have to try and defend against us.

I think there's a lot of misinformation about Klopp and his style mainly due to one poor start to a season with Dortmund after 2 consecutive league wins.

Firmino has looked sluggish all season - has looked a lot sharper in last 2/3 games though. I think it's more of a confidence thing with him though.

BorneTobyWilde

Gini is silly not to except the offer, 3 year contract and a huge increase in wages. And it means he could leave at 33 for free with the option for a big pay day else where.

~Rebel~

rossie1977 wrote: »

3 years time on this date he will be:

six months younger than Messi is now
six months older than Robert Lewandowski is right now
3 years younger than Ronaldo
2 years younger than James Milner is at this present
1 year younger than Jamie Vardy
1 year younger than Luis Suarez

2 things - 3 years from now he would only be 2 years into a new 4 year extension - it would only start at the end of this year.

And the important distinction is midfield versus forwards. That’s a huge difference. The only midfielder you’ve named is Milner, and we’ve not wanted Milner getting any more than backup minutes in over 2 years at this stage. Add in that there will likely be two others at that age on high wages too in Hendo and Thiago, and that’s not good.

And just as a note on the ‘sign him for 4, sell him after 2’ - he’s trying to sign his last deal right now. He wants this deal, and then to retire. It would be a total backstab move to try to force him out 2 or 3 years into a deal agreed in good faith. I’d rather they agree terms they’re willing to commit to.

rossie1977

Milner had 47 appearances and 26 starts two seasons ago.

I would have thought it been easier for midfield player as they got older as most strikers rely on pace. Liverpool themselves had the likes of Gerrard, McAllister, Barnes playing key roles in midfield in their mid 30s.

Fitz*

rossie1977 wrote: »

Milner had 47 appearances and 26 starts two seasons ago.

I would have thought it been easier for midfield player as they got older as most strikers rely on pace. Liverpool themselves had the likes of Gerrard, McAllister, Barnes playing key roles in midfield in their mid 30s.

I assume that Liverpool don't want a scenario in 2023 where they have the following players as their main CM options. Average age of 32.

Henderson (33) - 130k a week
Gini (33) - 120k a week
Thiago (32) - 200k a week
Fabinho (30) - 100k a week

atilladehun

Fitz* wrote: »

I assume that Liverpool don't want a scenario in 2023 where they have the following players as their main CM options. Average age of 32.

Henderson (33) - 130k a week
Gini (33) - 120k a week
Thiago (32) - 200k a week
Fabinho (30) - 100k a week

If we were funded like City, Chelsea, PSG I would say keep them all and make sure the next 2-3 midfield signings are bang on starters. Old guys are winners. Mentally they can raise it game after game while a younger guy is more likely to wobble.

I think City have dropped off mentally with the departures of Zabaletta, Toure, Kompany, Silva and possibly even Hart as a person, not as a keeper.

Unfortunately our finances aren't the same. Money spent on one player limits the money spent somewhere else. We manage out debt, which I'm happy about.

I'd love if we kept Gini. I don't think the club will.

Agent Coulson

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Does that spell the end of fake-noise so? Please god say yes, I hate it so much!

BT have announced they will be using true stadium sound now fans are back.

Riesen_Meal

https://twitter.com/TheRedmenTV/status/1334101208919912450?s=20

Not a huge fan of the Redmen to be honest, but I can not disagree with this....

~Rebel~

Fitz* wrote: »

I assume that Liverpool don't want a scenario in 2023 where they have the following players as their main CM options. Average age of 32.

Henderson (33) - 130k a week
Gini (33) - 120k a week
Thiago (32) - 200k a week
Fabinho (30) - 100k a week

Exactly, and Fab will almost certainly be significantly more by then too.

The issue isn't Gini alone - if he was the only one, I think the club would go for it. But can they afford to have half our midfielders aging and on the decline? Gini's key attributes are physical, so is perhaps the one they see declining first of those older lads.

Add to this that we know that Klopp signed his new deal to facilitate the changing of the guard and the transition to the next team, and it becomes hard to see an approach of keeping lads till they're auld on big wages.

I love Gini, and I don't want him to leave, but I understand the clubs position. You don't stay at the top if you let the team age together. You keep one or two as talismans and leaders, but the rest have to be moved on. I think Henderson basically ages into the Milner role, while Thiago is a slight exception given his game is more based on his passing range and reading of the game, like a Pirlo sort.

DVDM93

https://twitter.com/futebolbaseroom/status/1334058483822583810?s=20

~Rebel~

rossie1977 wrote: »

Milner had 47 appearances and 26 starts two seasons ago.

I would have thought it been easier for midfield player as they got older as most strikers rely on pace. Liverpool themselves had the likes of Gerrard, McAllister, Barnes playing key roles in midfield in their mid 30s.

Honestly, I think your own list shows thats not true. Quite a few of the best forwards in the world right now are into their early to mid-30's.

Are any of the best midfielders the same?
Any of the high profile 30+ midfielders i can think of, the first thing you think of when you hear their name is "Ooh, he's a bit past it...". Vidal (33), Busquets (32), Rakitić (32), Fernandinho (35). The commentary around all of these lads over the past few years has been the need to replace them.

It's a position that needs constant movement, constant alertness, constant sprints and reactions and physical battles. In contrast, those forwards you listed can bide their time and wait for their moment. Messi barely moves for half the game these days. The modern midfielder is a younger mans position. Especially at Liverpool where midfield is the heart and soul of the press and pressure.

Fitz*

A big component to allowing the likes of McAllister, Barnes, Gerrard play CM well into their 30s was that they had an energetic mobile midfielder alongside them to do the running.

Barnes had Redknapp
McAllister had Gerrard and to a degree Murphy.
Gerrard had Hendo & Allen.

~Rebel~

Just checked Henderson's contract - there's 2 seasons left on it after this.

So I suppose the bigger question is - Gini or Hendo. If you're extending one of them into that sort of mid-30's age, which do ya pick? Can ya really do both in addition to Thiago?

atilladehun

A variable on the 4 older midfielders in 2023 is that it could be Henderson who doesn't make it. He's covered a lot of ground over his career and picks up the odd injury. He might be more likely not go off a cliff.

Fabinho could make a permanent move to CB around that time.

gimli2112

Fitz* wrote: »

A big component to allowing the likes of McAllister, Barnes, Gerrard play CM well into their 30s was that they had an energetic mobile midfielder alongside them to do the running.

Barnes had Redknapp
McAllister had Gerrard and to a degree Murphy.
Gerrard had Hendo & Allen.

Redknapp was one of my favourite players but he was injured so much I don't think anyone including Barnes got any benefit from him. Barnes himself was sensational in the late 80s but he dropped off to where he wasn't the same player at all, not even close but kind of reinvented himself and was able to fulfil a roll.
McCallister and Milner must be the greatest free transfers ever. So good we should erect a Mark Bosman statue somewhere around our stadium.

yourdeadwright

Fitz* wrote: »

A big component to allowing the likes of McAllister, Barnes, Gerrard play CM well into their 30s was that they had an energetic mobile midfielder alongside them to do the running.

Barnes had Redknapp
McAllister had Gerrard and to a degree Murphy.
Gerrard had Hendo & Allen.

My take

When Barnes was still playing we where poor and so was he and the game was completely different ,

McAllister was never ever about pace he had it all up stairs,

Gerrard was a generational talent even at 35 would be among the best in the league,

Henderson & Gini rely a lot on work rate and there athletic ability Id worry for both as they age ,

Thiago style of play means he will probably age the most gracefully of the 3 on the pitch ,

rob316

murpho999 wrote: »

Are you talking about the same Firmino who scored last week?

I really wonder how people see that players are knackered as I just don't see it.

Klopp's players are all well trained and super fit.

I don't think it's that hard on the body as they're on the ball a lot which makes the physicality easier.
It's tougher on the opposition when they have to try and defend against us.

I think there's a lot of misinformation about Klopp and his style mainly due to one poor start to a season with Dortmund after 2 consecutive league wins.

I have never judged Firmino on goals, its a bonus if he scores but his influence on games is declining. Its only natural, he has put in serious work in the role for a number of seasons with little rest. I remember Gini said he was asked to play that position and couldn't get over how intense it was. He is dropping deep, dragging players all over the pitch, pressing relentlessly.
He doesn't have the same role with Brazil and is still scoring at a good rate. Its not down to sharpness I just think he doesn't have the legs for that role anymore. I watched Jota last night playing it and he got through serious work on and off the ball.

Osmosis Jones

JimboJones99 wrote: »

Mo Salah is so one-footed it is actually ridiculous!!

He's had some pretty decent right-footed finishes tbf

Agent Coulson

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Just checked Henderson's contract - there's 2 seasons left on it after this.

So I suppose the bigger question is - Gini or Hendo. If you're extending one of them into that sort of mid-30's age, which do ya pick? Can ya really do both in addition to Thiago?

I can see Hendo staying at the club for life now and probably taking over the Milner role as Mr Versatile over that time.

ERG89

Fitz* wrote: »

I assume that Liverpool don't want a scenario in 2023 where they have the following players as their main CM options. Average age of 32.

Henderson (33) - 130k a week
Gini (33) - 120k a week
Thiago (32) - 200k a week
Fabinho (30) - 100k a week

The bigger issue here is that next August can you see Minamino, Keita, Oxlaide-Chamberlain or Curtis Jones being a starter when Wijnaldum has left. At least 1 needs to be, maybe Jones could fit into the role eventually(still has a lot of improving to do) but the other 3? I'm very skeptical of them being starters as Keita/Ox haven't looked like doing that the last few years. Minamimo is still playing like a little boy lost 1 year later.

Salah isn't so one footed after all :pac: