Rachel Allen's son arrested again...

Drifter50

Drifter50 wrote: »

Would`nt you wonder what Myrtle Allen thinks of all this. She must have dark days sitting looking into space and thinking what a monster I created and now I will pay for this.
Its a shame that it has turned out this way but no sympathy from me. Can`t understand how the brand still survives, it should be dead and buried with a number of the family in jail.
I`m done with buying their products, plenty of good honest artisan producers struggling to make a living and these idiots piss it all away

Getting past the rhetoric, I doubt that Myrtle Allen thinks of much these days. She passed away a couple of years ago. RIP

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Its clearly obvious that this chap needs professional help, and having this play out in public isn't helping, discipline most definitely isn't what this chap needs right now, it rarely works anyway

Do you mean skooterblue or Joshua Allen?

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you mean skooterblue or Joshua Allen?

now now, no need to be singling out boards members, we should be all allowed to express our opinions, with respect

spaceHopper

He's on release from prison and is drunk driving, getting caught and doing it again. He should have had the car towed the first time and taken straight back to prison for breach of conditions, he can't be let way with stuff like this other wise he'll never learn or change.

He clearly has problems that need to be addressed but what if he killed somebody drink driving while on release? He belongs behind bars then see what can be done to help him. Maybe conditional release to a hospital after serving half his sentence.

Wanderer78

spaceHopper wrote: »

He's on release from prison and is drunk driving, getting caught and doing it again. He should have had the car towed the first time and taken straight back to prison for breach of conditions, he can't be let way with stuff like this other wise he'll never learn or change.

He clearly has problems that need to be addressed but what if he killed somebody drink driving while on release? He belongs behind bars then see what can be done to help him. Maybe conditional release to a hospital after serving half his sentence.

incarceration rarely forces behavioral changes, but if laws are broken, a person should be at the discretion of the legal system to decide whats to be done

freshpopcorn

spaceHopper wrote: »

He's on release from prison and is drunk driving, getting caught and doing it again. He should have had the car towed the first time and taken straight back to prison for breach of conditions, he can't be let way with stuff like this other wise he'll never learn or change.

He clearly has problems that need to be addressed but what if he killed somebody drink driving while on release? He belongs behind bars then see what can be done to help him. Maybe conditional release to a hospital after serving half his sentence.

What this guy has done isn’t common but it does happen from time to time and the only reason we are hearing about it is because he’s Rachel Allen’s son.
I’d suggest writing to your TD if you want to see changes regarding sentencing.

spaceHopper

Wanderer78 wrote: »

incarceration rarely forces behavioral changes, but if laws are broken, a person should be at the discretion of the legal system to decide whats to be done

Knowing you can do what ever you like and get away with never end well either.

He gets out early, told to behave and gets caught no consequences - he does it again. For F-sake there has to be a consequence he should have been brought back to prison.

Wanderer78

spaceHopper wrote: »

Knowing you can do what ever you like and get away with never end well either.

He gets out early, told to behave and gets caught no consequences - he does it again. For F-sake there has to be a consequence he should have been brought back to prison.

will that change much?

spaceHopper

Wanderer78 wrote: »

will that change much?

Yes it will stop him getting rat arsed and driving and killing somebody. It will teach him that if he want's to be free he has to behave or goes back to prison. It might force him to get or accept help.

eastie17

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

if this was a hard working lad from a poor area he would be buried, but little spoiled rich sh1t will get off lightly again

Dunno about that, think the judiciary is light on everyone, we've all seen the stories of lads with 100+ convictions coming back again and getting another suspended sentence.
Dont know if the US model of do **** all and get life is the model either but there has to be consequences to actions

Wanderer78

spaceHopper wrote: »

Yes it will stop him getting rat arsed and driving and killing somebody. It will teach him that if he want's to be free he has to behave or goes back to prison. It might force him to get or accept help.

will it really, is this what happens with other repeat offenders?

Galwayguy35

Longer sentences is the answer, if space is the issue then build more prisons.

But neither will happen with the spineless politicians we have who are afraid to do anything like that.

IAMAMORON

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Longer sentences is the answer, if space is the issue then build more prisons.

But neither will happen with the spineless politicians we have who are afraid to do anything like that.

What about the separation of powers, can they influence this?

Galwayguy35

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What about the separation of powers, can they influence this?

What do you mean?

IAMAMORON

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What do you mean?

Well under the Irish constitution power is separated.

The Dáil, The Seannad , The Courts , The President.

Fundamental changes have to be instigated by all 4 and agreed by all 4.

It is not just up to the politicians. Especially radical changes to our criminal justice system.

I think the general consensus is that building more prisons would not necessarily curb crime. Criminals would be locked up for longer, but only marginally. I mean look at the states, 3 strikes etc, but it has not solved their crime levels? Seemingly the biggest factor in curbing crime levels since the 60's is actually abortion, that's right, facilitating young women in not completing unwanted pregnancies has led to the birth of less unwanted children.

What is your opinion on slopping out?

Galwayguy35

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Well under the Irish constitution power is separated.

The Dáil, The Seannad , The Courts , The President.

Fundamental changes have to be instigated by all 4 and agreed by all 4.

It is not just up to the politicians. Especially radical changes to our criminal justice system.

I think the general consensus is that building more prisons would not necessarily curb crime. Criminals would be locked up for longer, but only marginally. I mean look at the states, 3 strikes etc, but it has not solved their crime levels? Seemingly the biggest factor in curbing crime levels since the 60's is actually abortion, that's right, facilitating young women in not completing unwanted pregnancies has led to the birth of less unwanted children.

What is your opinion on slopping out?

Well I still think longer sentences would serve as a deterrent at least in some cases.

Many criminals have no fear of going to prison because they know they will only serve a fraction of what they are given by the courts and even at that in most cases the sentence is only a few years.

As for slopping out, they made it let them dump it.

Do you not agree with it?

IAMAMORON

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well I still think longer sentences would serve as a deterrent at least in some cases.

Which ones exactly? I mean to elaborate, anyone busted for murders etc, is going down and for a long time. Most of the cranking gets labelled at your average street crime, but this is carried out by hopeless clowns with addiction issues ( in general ). Prison is not really a solution here in fairness. There is scope to increase prison terms for organised burglary gangs, but that may not necessarily solve the issue. The best deterrent against burglary is community vigilance, a loud dog and or a decent alarm unfortunately.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Many criminals have no fear of going to prison because they know they will only serve a fraction of what they are given by the courts and even at that in most cases the sentence is only a few years.

Still debatable. Violent criminals in general, if caught, are getting removed from our streets. I am not saying that there is not violent criminals walking our streets, but some of those violent ones are very very shrewd also, which is another misconception.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

As for slopping out, they made it let them dump it.

Do you not agree with it?

I most definitely do. It is disgusting and must act as a genuine deterrent. Who wants to be doing that? Yuck.

I think "slopping out" would be a better deterent for the likes of Joshua Allen. A few months in a low security prison is not the answer, it doesn't look like. He may not be violent, but he should be made clean up his own shight for starters.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Their grandad was a pedo .....it doesnt take a genius to take out they were probably in very dangerous and uncomfortable positions as kids.

Its obv a very dysfunctional family.

I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion. I actually am acquainted with a family where unfortunately the paternal grandfather is a convicted peadophile. I’m friendly with his daughter-in-law. She and her family live near him and she and her husband fiercely guard the children from grandad. They are happy kids.

So it’s really not a given that the Allen kids’ environment was dangerous growing up.

big_drive

I heard a recent interview with a reformed drug addict.

He said the only way is to be left off by your family. He was thrown out of the house and eventually was on the streets. But it was the wake up call he needed. He said while he was left stay at home his family was basically enabling him to continue taking drugs, dealing, getting into financial trouble, etc.
He said its terrible for parents but if you don't it will ruin the rest of the family, lead to debts, marriage breakdowns, etc

The young Allen lad probably knows he has it handy no matter what he does. He can go back home, take it easy, have access to car, cash, etc

If he was kicked out and forced to make his own way it might wake him up to what's happening

freshpopcorn

big_drive wrote: »

If he was kicked out and forced to make his own way it might wake him up to what's happening

This certainly is a popular opinion on Boards the tough love approach.
It would certainly be a last resort if I had a child who went down the wrong road mainly because the parents I know who tried this approach kids ended up on the streets and then in the river.

big_drive

freshpopcorn wrote: »

This certainly is a popular opinion on Boards the tough love approach.
It would certainly be a last resort if I had a child who went down the wrong road mainly because the parents I know who tried this approach kids ended up on the streets and then in the river.

I would have always thought the same. The interview i heard got me thinking though. He basically said do you want the whole family messed up for a finish because that's what will happen. He said its a terrible conflict for parents as you're basically gambling on things not going wrong if you kick the individual out but you almost must "sacrifice" the person for the sake of the rest of the family. But you do it in a way where you make them well aware that you will help and support them when they decide they need help. He said nothing positive will happens until the person themselves actually decide they want to turn things around. He mentioned his own family spent a fortune on sending him to treatment centres but it was pointless as he didn't want to be there but they were desperate to "fix" him

its a very difficult one really. The Dublin footballer Philly McMahon would have the opposite view on things. So i suppose its different for every family who have been through it.

I would belive though that Josh Allen must at the back of his mind realise he has a handy lifestyle and its there to fall back on even if things are going badly. It must surely make it possible to make the wrong decision ewithout fearing a consequence

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Its clearly obvious that this chap needs professional help, and having this play out in public isn't helping, discipline most definitely isn't what this chap needs right now, it rarely works anyway

Fully agree but you know as well as I, for treatment you need to accept a condition and seek to change behaviour. I think the best treatments were genuinely sought but were either never accepted or implemented. You can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink. I think because there was too much enabling. When you hit rock bottom, only two things happen either you start to rise or you stay there.

skooterblue2

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you mean skooterblue or Joshua Allen?

The difference is if I had a condition I would recognise it and seek treatment and implement a psychologists report.
That is the difference.
Joshua is going to do a lot more damage to himself and others before this comes to a head.

skooterblue2

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you mean skooterblue or Joshua Allen?

A few difference between myself and Joshua. I dont have a criminal record, he does. I have completed many courses in education, poor josh can barely tie his own shoe laces. He has never implement a psychologist report, I dont need the sort of help he rejected.

IAMAMORON

I would be more worried that you answered that seriously if I am being honest, oh dear:o.

skooterblue2

Errashareesh wrote: »

How is it definite that he needs professional help and isn't just acting the spoilt brat?

Truth? Bit of both. I do recognise the addiction and the addiction is the symptom of something else. On the other hand he has so many safety nets why should he bother changing his behaviour? He can always go home and peel spuds with a roof over his head and pocket money to beat the band. In the same position, why would you change?

Now if you changed the lay out. Remove the safety nets.
He is the type to find weed in the Antarctic.
He would have to enrole in Narc-Anon.
He would have to find a vocational role.
He would have to find new friends (not weed smokers, hard when you attract them).
Its going to be tough to break an addiction formed early in life while the brain is developing.
I have seen it done before but the guy had to lose EVERYTHING before he hit rock bottom. He lost his cushy job with the HSE, the car, the friends and had to server three months and retrain as an addiction counsellor.

Rather him than me.

Ash.J.Williams

I’d say young josh is in better shape then some of the weirdos his boards thread attract

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

incarceration rarely forces behavioral changes, but if laws are broken, a person should be at the discretion of the legal system to decide whats to be done

So we have one law for one and one law for the other?
Didnt Sun Tzu forbid this in the Art of War?
But agreed Rarely incarceration solves anything.
Most criminal reoffend in a short time frame and are back inside.

IAMAMORON

pawdee

I honestly don't know where the papers get their information. It was actually a 1995 Rover 214i that he crashed. Straight through the back kitchen door and into the range. As for the intoxicated bit, he had some of Darina's trifle that evening and one slice of Bailey's cheesecake at a friend's house. Give the lad a break.