Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

DeanAustin

Gradius wrote: »

It's the only sensible plan, yes I advocate for it.

The way I see it there are three ways to go about it.

1. Allow the current "plan" to continue and hope for a vaccine.
Billions of euros down the tube, 7 months of goodwill wasted, the economy on its knees ...and it has achieved nothing. Back to square one.

2. Pretend it doesn't exist and "live with the virus"
Ludicrous. The virus isn't going to disappear if it's let run rampant, the logic is insane. Kiss the entire hospital system goodbye and the economy is ruined and people sick left right and center.

3. Isolate the country and eradicate the disease.
Very difficult but it has an exit strategy. A return to normal with a reduced economy.

Only one of these strategies has light at the end of the tunnel.

The first bolded bit is your opinion and no one is advocating the 2nd point. Of course, if you learn to live with the virus, you don't pretend it doesn't exist. That would be stupid.

People, like me, advocating managing the virus believe that we should have guidelines that are enforcable and enforced. You continue to push the personal responsibility line and the messages about distancing, hand washing etc. You put measures in place to protect the most vulnerable. But you don't lock down the rest.

Locking down doesn't have light at the end of the tunnel as you can't get rid of the virus without a vaccine.

Jim_Hodge

Gael23 wrote: »

NPHET now needs to be disbanded

For doing precisely what they have been tasked to do? Please explain.

Sierra Oscar

is_that_so wrote: »

NPHET tend not to do much lobbying. They don't have that power and they've made their recommendation. Level 3 sets us up mentally for a possible/probable Level 5 in the next while or so because Sunday night to Monday morning is not the way to do that.

NPHET members have been engaging in off the record briefings for weeks now.

Look at last nights leak for example.

shinzon

Just to clarify if this is going ahead and no level 5 is the rest of the country moving to Level 3 and Dublin and Donegal staying at 4 ?

Shin

odyssey06

Luap wrote: »

Does this make any difference to people working in an office atm? I am able to work from home. Should I be asked to work remotely?

Level 3 is:
Work from home unless absolutely necessary to attend in person.

Level 2 is:
Work from home if possible. If you can work from home, you are advised to only attend work for essential on-site meetings, inductions and training.

TexasTornado

Joke government

Wealth before health

TonyMaloney

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

NPHET members have been engaging in off the record briefings for weeks now.

Look at last nights leak for example.

the leak could well have come from the gov

GooglePlus

The same people who think level 3 countrywide is sufficient also thought we would never get to this situation in the first place.

Level 5 being pushed down the road, if the rumours are true. Tearing the bandage off nice a slowly while a new wound festers elsewhere.

BLIZZARD7

Gael23 wrote: »

NPHET now needs to be disbanded

The government * needs to be disbanded

billybonkers

shinzon wrote: »

Just to clarify if this is going ahead and no level 5 is the rest of the country moving to Level 3 and Dublin and Donegal staying at 4 ?

Shin

Dublin and Donegal are at Level 3.765 not Level 4

bennyl10

shinzon wrote: »

Just to clarify if this is going ahead and no level 5 is the rest of the country moving to Level 3 and Dublin and Donegal staying at 4 ?

Shin

Everyone to 3
No one to 4

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

eagle eye

So the people we are supposed to trust to protect our health recommend level 5 and the crooked clowns voted in to run the country reject that advice.
More cases and more deaths on the way so.
Watch how they word it though, there'll be an escape clause so you can't blame Martin, Varadkar et al.

Ger Roe

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

Even if they 'can'... should they?

MerlinSouthDub

TonyMaloney wrote: »

the leak could well have come from the gov

Highly unlikely it came from the government. The government were clearly in shock when this came out last night, and it never looks good for a government to appear not to be in control.

mr_edge_to_you

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

For doing precisely what they have been tasked to do? Please explain.

You could argue, if they're advising of level 5 restrictions and the government gave taken minimal action (level 2 to 3), what's their purpose?

B.A._Baracus

Level system is getting a bit silly now.
So we are 3.5 now...

Not 4... 3.5 lol

cjyid

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

Yep. No classes, just individual training.

Luap

odyssey06 wrote: »

Level 3 is:
Work from home unless absolutely necessary to attend in person.

Level 2 is:
Work from home if possible. If you can work from home, you are advised to only attend work for essential on-site meetings, inductions and training.

Thank you - can see my employer ignoring this - hopefully will have a choice

shmeee

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

Individual training only

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ger Roe wrote: »

Even if the 'can'... should they?

Sigh.

Anyone else?

GooglePlus

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Should read the data then. Slowing growth in Dublin compared to 2 weeks ago, definitely changes being seen

Can you share the data, I can't see how growth is slowing given the cases Dublin has seen over the weekend? Is that based on a leveling out of daily cases while in the 400's? Does it take the 600 figure into account?

spookwoman

If people cannot even adhere to current guidelines do you honestly think they will adhere to level 3.

stephenjmcd

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

Yup just for your own workout no classes

Sierra Oscar

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

You could argue, if they're advising of level 5 restrictions and the government gave taken minimal action (level 2 to 3), what's their purpose?

Their purpose is to provide the Government with informed advice to enable the Government to make informed decisions. That is what is happening and what will continue to happen. It was never a fait accompli that the Government would inevitably accept NPHET's advice.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

This hasn’t made Tony look good on his first day back. His own fault

Tony has clearly come across as a leader who won't bow down to the government. His return was clearly badly needed.

Buford T Justice

Dublin, Cork & Donegal all have rapidly rising case numbers and two of them are already on level 3 for two weeks now at least.

The government response is to put the whole country on level 3? Makes no sense when you consider that there are counties with very little cases being treated the same as them.

shinzon

billybonkers wrote: »

Dublin and Donegal are at Level 3.765 not Level 4

Lol I forgot theres levels between levels :D:D

Shin

Gael23

Well deserved slap in the face for Holohan

suicide_circus

TexasTornado wrote: »

Joke government

Wealth before health

Why are they not trusting the science???

Infini

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Can gyms remain open on level 3?

Yes. If we stay on Level 3 we still have gyms but we lose them at level 4.

That being said if they're only going to level 3 for the country that does feel alot like Mehole's dithering to me, NPHET recommended level 5 but I think alot of people would be more willing to accept it if given proper reasoning for it. Its the sudden escalation that got people startled.

However if the goverment shy away from the tough decision now and we end up with a situation like Italy with people being taken to crematoriums in army trucks because the health system collapses then people will learn a hard leason that honestly Id rather not see people go through. You can lose money but money can be made again, buisnesses can be lost but they can be rebuilt as well, you lose your life its game over theres no coming back.

Gradius

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DeanAustin wrote: »

The first bolded bit is your opinion and no one is advocating the 2nd point. Of course, if you learn to live with the virus, you don't pretend it doesn't exist. That would be stupid.

People, like me, advocating managing the virus believe that we should have guidelines that are enforcable and enforced. You continue to push the personal responsibility line and the messages about distancing, hand washing etc. You put measures in place to protect the most vulnerable. But you don't lock down the rest.

Locking down doesn't have light at the end of the tunnel as you can't get rid of the virus without a vaccine.

I appreciate what you're saying, but to me there is very little difference between pretending it doesn't exist and attempting to go back to normal with a few enforcement's.

It is entirely possible to isolate and kill the virus within any defined territory. It is the same principle as quarantining a pneumonia house in the 1920's. It's nothing new.

So I still say that it is the only strategy that has a chance of success.

And by the way there are lots of people in the actual "doesn't exist" conspiracy now. Mad, but that's what you're up against.

hmmm

We need a sea-change in enforcement. It's not enough to ask the public to do more, the relatively small group who are deliberately flouting restrictions don't care, and there is a larger group of "ah shure it'll be fine" people who need to be challenged.

It shouldn't be up to the Guards - there isn't enough of them.

Fines I think should be the first step, and aggressively hand them out. Fine supermarkets if they let people in without masks. Fine publicans who allow social distancing breaches. Fine home-owners if they have parties. Fine hotels if they are not complying with the rules. Fine people who travel outside their counties if there is a lockdown.

Let people complain about their "Constitutional rights". We can deal with that later.

Miike

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Some counties don’t even need level 3 either so even with that its quite extreme

We currently have less than 40 critical care beds available nationally. We will have exactly zero in a matter of weeks if things continue. We have a chance to get ahead of it

drunkmonkey

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

People will be furious when we are in level 5 restrictions in the run up to and during Christmas. NPHET will be out saying it was avoidable.

Or the death rate doesn't increase in line with the forecasts and the gig is up.

shocksy

Cowardly government, haven't a pair of balls between them. Ignoring NPHET because they think they know better haha hope it causes the government to crash and burn in the coming weeks when the cases and deaths rise which they will in crazy numbers.

MerlinSouthDub

Ger Roe wrote: »

Even if they 'can'... should they?

They most definitely should. Staying fit is the best defence against premature death. 30000 people died in Ireland last year. Thousands of those would not have died if they had looked after themselves better.

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

Little affect

In the past 7 days the 14 day incidence rate in Dublin grew by 6.3%, and for the country as a whole it grew by 27%
In the previous 7 the rates were 12% and 23%
And prior to that 53% and 45%

spookwoman

Hulk Hands

eagle eye wrote: »

So the people we are supposed to trust to protect our health recommend level 5 and the crooked clowns voted in to run the country reject that advice.
More cases and more deaths on the way so.
Watch how they word it though, there'll be an escape clause so you can't blame Martin, Varadkar et al.

I'm personally delighted that it's elected officials finally making the decisions. A decision with all factors of public life taken into account.

At level 3, we'll still be one of the heaviest locked-down nations, with case & hospital numbers towards the lower end of Europe. Surely the pro lockdown folk can be happy with that

mr_edge_to_you

hmmm wrote: »

We need a sea-change in enforcement. It's not enough to ask the public to do more, the relatively small group who are deliberately flouting restrictions don't care, and there is a larger group of "ah shure it'll be fine" people who need to be challenged.

It shouldn't be up to the Guards - there isn't enough of them.

Fines I think should be the first step, and aggressively hand them out. Fine supermarkets if they let people in without masks. Fine publicans who allow social distancing breaches. Fine home-owners if they have parties. Fine hotels if they are not complying with the rules.

Let people complain about their "Constitutional rights". We can deal with that later.

Excellent post.

We will have Level 3 restrictions and then the tin foil hat brigade will march up Grafton St on Saturday with no one stopping them.

is_that_so

Ger Roe wrote: »

I think 'scheduling issues' might refer to the fact the some of the NPHET main players will be involved in other government briefings tonight. There certainly needs to be a state address from the podium today, communication with the public is such a leaky mess at the moment and the general mood of the nation is not good.

This government needs to plug the leaks and release info in a controlled and considered manner, otherwise we are heading to a very dark place in terms of public mood and potential compliance. If we go there, they (Gov) will only have themselves to blame.

Effective communication is crucial and they are failing badly on so many levels, at the moment.

I agree on communication, it's been collectively dire. We could do with a lot more Harris type nagging about what we are doing.

autumnbelle

What does this mean for weddings? People need to start calling out the assholes that are putting house parties etc on social media. Will pubs close again

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1313134546716680195?s=19

Oranage2

GooglePlus wrote: »

Can you share the data, I can't see how growth is slowing given the cases Dublin has seen over the weekend? Is that based on a leveling out of daily cases while in the 400's? Does it take the 600 figure into account?

Exactly, it only appears to be stable because of the limited testing done, the positivity rate is above 4 now when it was around 2.3 two weeks ago. No point arguing with this guy about facts.

tobefrank321

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Dublin, Cork & Donegal all have rapidly rising case numbers and two of them are already on level 3 for two weeks now at least.

The government response is to put the whole country on level 3? Makes no sense when you consider that there are counties with very little cases being treated the same as them.

Agreed. NPHET and government need to be more surgical in their response.

And even within counties outbreaks can be limited to certain towns and areas, as long as movement is restricted around these areas, outbreaks should be contained.

drunkmonkey

Miike wrote: »

We currently have less than 40 critical care beds available nationally. We will have exactly zero in a matter of weeks if things continue. We have a chance to get ahead of it

We've a super bug breakout in a lot of hospitals that's already killing. Critical care beds won't be long filling up without covid.

Peter Flynt

Wrong decision.

Ger Roe

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

They most definitely should. Staying fit is the best defence against premature death. 30000 people died in Ireland last year. Thousands of those would not have died if they had looked after themselves better.

You don't have to go to a gym (indoor location also used by other people and with multiple contact surfaces) to stay fit.

ACitizenErased

spookwoman wrote: »

If people cannot even adhere to current guidelines do you honestly think they will adhere to level 3.

Coulda predicted you wouldn't be happy :pac: