Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

ACitizenErased

“Lockdowns are bad for the health service” - CEO of the HSE
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310880431840124929?s=21

caveat emptor

rusty cole wrote: »

do you have any underlying conditions?? or define minor lung issues? Asthma?

Yeah or did you fall off a ladder? :cool:

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Explain how 0.16% of the population of Lombardy have died or 0.2% of the population of New York?

A lot of fiddling is being done with the figures worldwide.

Tests: The UK counts a 'home test' as a test - the kit is delivered to a home and the occupant self administered the test - or not. How is that got any validity.

Deaths: Many states in the USA are having a huge increase year on year with people dying from pulmonary related conditions (like 20 times as many) while reporting only a few Covid deaths. The UK only considers a death as Covid if it occurs within 28 days of a positive test. We have patients in ICU for over 60 days with Covid.

This is massaging the figures.

Away With The Fairies

caveat emptor wrote: »

Carol MacNeill bringing up deficiency in School contact tracing and testing.

"School teacher, waiting 5 days for contact tracing to be contacted"

Tracing:

"Child tested positive, school clearly told to leave tracing to HSE according to schools understanding."

"Child tested positive weren't contacted by HSE and parent contacted the school direct to warn and pod sent home"

The work of the HSE, doesn't leave you with much confidence when it's a parent contacting the school.

caveat emptor

Contact tracing creaking.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310877110051975168?s=20

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

“Lockdowns are bad for the health service” - CEO of the HSE
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310880431840124929?s=21

In fairness our health service is bad for the health service. Treatment delays, waiting lists, failures in preventative medicine, a two tiered system, chronic understaffing and unfilled vacancies, capacity issues (trollies). These factors have clogged up our health system over the years.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Contact tracing creaking.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310877110051975168?s=20

I think a study in Switzerland estimated that once the 14 day average was over 50 per 100,000 tracing would begin to struggle, We're well past that now. I'll try and find a link to the study.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah or did you fall off a ladder? :cool:

yeah that just went way over my head charles spearman!

Icantthinkof1

rusty cole wrote: »

define minor lung issues? Asthma?

Um...asthma is not a ‘minor’ lung issue

TomSweeney

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/prepare-for-six-to-nine-months-of-covid-19-restraints-warn-health-officials-1.4366922

IT being responsible as always ...

"There will be no vaccine in 9 months time"

Despite the fact that we are on the cusp of 2 being approved ...

fearmongering nonsense from the IT

Pablo Escobar

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

It's not just people that were hospitalised. The stats apply to everyone.

I'm now 7/8 months in (was not hospitalised) and have minor (yes, minor) lung issues. But I've now been put on a 6 month treatment as of last Saturday. So, next review will likely be 14 months after.

Is it hindering my quality of life? No, not particularly at the moment. But I'd totally recommend people to try to avoid getting it as it will affect everyone on a different level.

I'm 34, I'm fairly fit and lucky enough to have health insurance. I'm not sure I'd be a priority otherwise.

My mother in law got pneumonia as a teenager and still suffers after effects 50 years later. Its not a new phenomenon

Irish Steve

da_miser wrote: »

Dont see many sacrifices from those older people the last few years retired on a nice pension in a house they own towards the young working for minimum wage, taxed to pay for the retired while living in a dog box apartment with zero prospects for a good future.
Nearly all economists agree there will be no old age pension for the young currently working to pay for those receiving it now, and you want these young folk to go into even more debt to keep you safe and add another year to your already 80+?
I expect the UK to be the first major country to see the public revolt against these lock down covid laws in a meaningful way, riots by mid October, full on insurrection by Guy Fawkes Night, November 5th.

And how many of the young generation have had to deal with trying to survive with inflation at 23%, and power cuts for 18 hours out of 24 hours as a result of strike action? The 70's and 80's were not a cake walk for people trying to get on the housing ladder back then, and then like now, if you wanted a good future, you bloody well worked for it, not expected it to be handed to you on a plate.

The money that's already been thrown at all aspects of Covid is unprecedented, and it's far from over, anyone that thinks it's going to be simple to solve all the problems that are happening now is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The economy is already blown out of the water, that happened a long time ago, but the wriggling, ducking and diving and weaving that was done by the EU, IMF and others meant that it wasn't allowed to happen in the way it should have, this last 9 months will just serve to make sure that the eventual rebalancing of many aspects of life will be even more fundamental than it was going to be. As for where the pain will be felt, that's going to be a very interesting revelation.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

The UK only considers a death as Covid if it occurs within 28 days of a positive test. We have patients in ICU for over 60 days with Covid.

That's not quite right. The 28 day limit only applies to deaths outside of hospital.

The original problem was people who contracted Covid and recovered but subsequently died from an unrelated issue were still counted as a Covid death. The 28 day limit is to prevent that. People who are hospitalised and die still count regardless of the time frame.

Strumms

ACitizenErased wrote: »

“Lockdowns are bad for the health service” - CEO of the HSE
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310880431840124929?s=21

Yeah. By this logic people who have panic attacks at a red light while driving cars should be allowed to drive on through them right !

The mental heath brigade out in force again to try and undermine everything. And try and shout down anybody criticizing them.

If I’m Qing in a supermarket later, but have a panic attack in the Q, by the logic of this lot I probably should be able to take my 200 euros worth of groceries , bring it to the car and go home without paying... when the Gardai stop me and enquire what I’m doing “ ahhh no, my mental health you see ! “ “ ahh grand so, sorry about that, on your way so”....

We are never going to get out of this with these pricks and their enablers and excusers... it’s not ALL mental heath either , enough of them are happy to walk under that banner as long as it gives them a hall pass with their selfish as fûck needy asswipe behavior...:rolleyes:

DraftDodger

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/prepare-for-six-to-nine-months-of-covid-19-restraints-warn-health-officials-1.4366922

IT being responsible as always ...

"There will be no vaccine in 9 months time"

Despite the fact that we are on the cusp of 2 being approved ...

fearmongering nonsense from the IT

There is a massive difference between having a vaccine and having a widespread safe rollout of the vaccine to the population.


The fear mongering phrase is vastly over used btw.

TonyMaloney

Deleted User wrote: »

My mother in law got pneumonia as a teenager and still suffers after effects 50 years later. Its not a new phenomenon

Right.

But now imagine your mother and millions (guess) of others around the globe acquired a prolonged illness at roughly the same time.

We don't have the first clue about the world's seroprevalence, but I think it's safe to assume that there's still plenty of scope for this big problem to become much bigger.

Plumbthedepths

Strumms wrote: »

Yeah. By this logic people who have panic attacks at a red light while driving cars should be allowed to drive on through them right !

The mental heath brigade out in force again to try and undermine everything. And try and shout down anybody criticizing them.

If I’m Qing in a supermarket later, but have a panic attack in the Q, by the logic of this lot I probably should be able to take my 200 euros worth of groceries , bring it to the car and go home without paying... when the Gardai stop me and enquire what I’m doing “ ahhh no, my mental health you see ! “ “ ahh grand so, sorry about that, on your way so”....

We are never going to get out of this with these pricks and their enablers and excusers... it’s not ALL mental heath either , enough of them are happy to walk under that banner as long as it gives them a hall pass with their selfish as fûck needy asswipe behavior...:rolleyes:

Considering your partner's occupation your dismissal of mental health is strange, then again maybe it's not you described i believe a 12 year child needing her help as a 'needy little bollix' or a description very close to that.

hmmm

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/prepare-for-six-to-nine-months-of-covid-19-restraints-warn-health-officials-1.4366922

IT being responsible as always ...

"There will be no vaccine in 9 months time"

Despite the fact that we are on the cusp of 2 being approved ...

fearmongering nonsense from the IT

We need realism, because a lot of people were under the impression that this would all end quickly. The people shouting about "fear mongering" are delusional because they refuse to accept reality.

Although if anything people are getting more pessimistic just at the point where things are beginning to look better. Perhaps it's those of us who were ready for an 18-month event who can now see the end in sight, where if you were someone who thought it would be over after a few weeks you'd probably be pretty sad right now as reality dawns.

So two points I'd like to make:
1. This was always likely to be an 18 month event for the worst of it. Winter will be difficult.
2. We are about to turn the corner with vaccines, rapid testing and better treatments arriving.

Strumms

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Considering your partner's occupation your dismissal of mental health is strange, then again maybe it's not you described i believe a 12 year child needing her help as a 'needy little bollix' or a description very close to that.

I haven’t dismissed it at all, even though that’s a disingenuous spin you’d like to and frequently attempt to put on things. . My comments related to people knowing zero about mental health but using it as a hall pass to railroad their argument as having some greater importance and truth, nothing was further in fact from the truth and they’ve been found out. The anti lockdown and anti restriction brigade being the chief culprits

Plenty of psychologists are in agreement that restrictions, lockdowns etc while tough, while caused issues were the correct decisions for society and the wellbeing of.

Paddygreen

There are plenty of head meds out there to manage mental health issues. Anyone who is cracking up because life as they knew it has been turned upside down or is in severe financial difficulties because they have no work, no prospects for work and a whole load of financial commitments that they can’t cover can get a prescription guys. Most Gps will happily dish out all sorts of potent head meds on a whim like they are smarties at a five year olds birthday party , there’s no problem guys. The rapid decline of people’s quality of life , financial security and mental health isn’t an issue if we can save just one person from probable C19, that’s what matters. Hold firm we are all in it together.

Le Bruise

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/prepare-for-six-to-nine-months-of-covid-19-restraints-warn-health-officials-1.4366922

IT being responsible as always ...

"There will be no vaccine in 9 months time"

Despite the fact that we are on the cusp of 2 being approved ...

fearmongering nonsense from the IT

The RTE news quote from Dr McGlynn said 6 months....now that's changed by the Irish Times to 6 to 9 months. The very definition of 'fearmongering'. Taking a direct quote and adding a little of your own spice to it to make it sound worse.

BTW, I think 6 months would be an amazing timeline for a game-changer if it happened!

ACitizenErased

Strumms wrote: »

Yeah. By this logic people who have panic attacks at a red light while driving cars should be allowed to drive on through them right !

The mental heath brigade out in force again to try and undermine everything. And try and shout down anybody criticizing them.

If I’m Qing in a supermarket later, but have a panic attack in the Q, by the logic of this lot I probably should be able to take my 200 euros worth of groceries , bring it to the car and go home without paying... when the Gardai stop me and enquire what I’m doing “ ahhh no, my mental health you see ! “ “ ahh grand so, sorry about that, on your way so”....

We are never going to get out of this with these pricks and their enablers and excusers... it’s not ALL mental heath either , enough of them are happy to walk under that banner as long as it gives them a hall pass with their selfish as fûck needy asswipe behavior...:rolleyes:

What a despicable comment

Plumbthedepths

Strumms wrote: »

I haven’t dismissed it at all, even though that’s a disingenuous spin you’d like to and frequently attempt to put on things. . My comments related to people knowing zero about mental health but using it as a hall pass to railroad their argument as having some greater importance and truth, nothing was further in fact from the truth and they’ve been found out. The anti lockdown and anti restriction brigade being the chief culprits

Plenty of psychologists are in agreement that restrictions, lockdowns etc while tough, while caused issues were the correct decisions for society and the wellbeing of.

At least you are not claiming your description of the child was untrue.
It's not spin at all it's quite obvious from your comments what your opinion of mental health is.

ArthurDayne

Paddygreen wrote: »

There are plenty of head meds out there to manage mental health issues. Anyone who is cracking up because life as they knew it has been turned upside down or is in severe financial difficulties because they have no work, no prospects for work and a whole load of financial commitments that they can’t cover can get a prescription guys. Most Gps will happily dish out all sorts of potent head meds on a whim like they are smarties at a five year olds birthday party , there’s no problem guys. The rapid decline of people’s quality of life , financial security and mental health isn’t an issue if we can save just one person from C19, that’s what matters. Hold firm we are all in it together.

Would permanent lockdown forever be worth it if we could save just one person from any infectious disease?

Martina1991

dalyboy wrote: »

I reckon the HSE will find some “flaw” in it.
They’re not going to give up their abomination 3-4 day turnaround PCR test that easily. 15 minute test would mean we would get back to a semblance of normality fairly quickly and that’ll blow the doomsday narrative for them.

Ideally you want a test to be quick, cheap and accurate.
In reality, you can have 2 out of the 3.

These rapid antigen tests are nowhere near as accurate as PCR.

https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/mumbai-covid-19-seroprevalence-survey-prevalence-sensitivity-specificity/

"While RT-PCR and antibody tests are over 70% and 90% sensitive, respectively, the sensitivity of a rapid antigen test kit is about 50%.


A test that quickly tests people at the expense of taking more time to yield more accurate results could also yield more than a few false negative results. That is, infected people who test ‘negative’ may be led to believe they’re not actually in infected and become complacent, and not be so careful about wearing masks when stepping out, washing their hands whenever possible and/or taking extra precautions when meeting people with comorbidities.

If we performed a rapid antigen test in a municipal ward with 100,000 residents, of which 10,000 are infected, using a kit that has 50.6% sensitivity and 99.3% specificity, we would miss 4,940 people who are actually infected as false negatives."

So yes, if the HSE finds flaw with these tests, they won't and shouldn't be used.

hmmm

Martina1991 wrote: »

So yes, if the HSE finds flaw with these tests, they won't and shouldn't be used.

If that's the case I can't see the HSE using them. Where I think these rapid tests will be useful is in scenarios where otherwise there would be no tests - e.g. employers testing staff, airports. Currently in some of those situations we miss 100% of any potential Covid infections because there is no testing.

Strumms

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Would permanent lockdown forever be worth it if we could save just one person from any infectious disease?

Lockdown and restrictions have saved millions Europe-wide.

I haven’t got the most up to date numbers but in earlier in the summer it was reported that 3.4 million people Europewide were saved, due to restrictions...

The experts of the Imperial Collage London back this up..

TonyMaloney

What if you were to do multiple rapid tests?

is it 50% each time?

ACitizenErased

Strumms wrote: »

Lockdown and restrictions have saved millions Europe-wide.

I haven’t got the most up to date numbers but in earlier in the summer it was reported that 3.4 million people Europewide were saved, due to restrictions...

The experts of the Imperial Collage London back this up..

I guarantee the effects of lockdown have killed a large amount of people.

Strumms

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I guarantee the effects of lockdown have killed a large amount of people.

It’s saved multiple more people than killed... as did and as are restrictions

Zebra3

Jackman25 wrote: »

If they just shot 3 or 4 of them, the rest would scatter so I think it could work :)

Would make the evening reports a bit more interesting.
0 Covid deaths. 5 students shot dead.

It would, but remember we only report covid deaths, no other deaths matter.

Boggles

Strumms wrote: »

It’s saved multiple more people than killed... as did and as are restrictions

Road fatalities were down 36% across the EU in April.

Funsterdelux

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I guarantee the effects of lockdown have killed a large amount of people.

Wow you give out more guarantees than Lever Bros

Strumms

Boggles wrote: »

Road fatalities were down 36% across the EU in April.

That’s what you call, a very inconvenient piece of good news... quick, get the brush, I’ll lift the carpet !

froog

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I guarantee the effects of lockdown have killed a large amount of people.

Oh yeah? How many? By what cause of death? Is it more than the people saved from the virus by lockdown?

robbiezero

Strumms wrote: »

Yeah. By this logic people who have panic attacks at a red light while driving cars should be allowed to drive on through them right !

The mental heath brigade out in force again to try and undermine everything. And try and shout down anybody criticizing them.

If I’m Qing in a supermarket later, but have a panic attack in the Q, by the logic of this lot I probably should be able to take my 200 euros worth of groceries , bring it to the car and go home without paying... when the Gardai stop me and enquire what I’m doing “ ahhh no, my mental health you see ! “ “ ahh grand so, sorry about that, on your way so”....

We are never going to get out of this with these pricks and their enablers and excusers... it’s not ALL mental heath either , enough of them are happy to walk under that banner as long as it gives them a hall pass with their selfish as fûck needy asswipe behavior...:rolleyes:

Good man yourself. Way to tell that CEO of the HSE and his bleating about mental health. Sher what would he know about it.

ACitizenErased

froog wrote: »

Oh yeah? How many? By what cause of death? Is it more than the people saved from the virus by lockdown?

If you prefer to be ignorant, that's your own choice.

froog

ACitizenErased wrote: »

If you prefer to be ignorant, that's your own choice.

Are you not even attempting to back up your bull**** anymore? Probably for the best.

Gruffalux

Boggles wrote: »

Road fatalities were down 36% across the EU in April.

Also

Results: Poisson regression analysis found that the regional historical VLBW rate per 1000 live births for January to April, 2001 to 2019 was 8.18 (95% CI: 7.21, 9.29). During January to April 2020, an unusually low VLBW rate of just 2.17 per 1000 live births was observed. The rate ratio of 3.77 (95% CI: 1.21, 11.75), p = 0.022, estimates that for the last two decades there was, on average, 3.77 times the rate of VLBW, compared to the period January to April 2020 during which there is a 73% reduction. National Irish VLBW rate for 2020 is forecasted to be reduced to 400 per 60,000 births compared to historical 500 to 600 range. Conclusion: An unprecedented reduction in PTB of VLBW infants was observed in one health region of Ireland during the COVID-19 lockdown.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.03.20121442v1

Strumms

robbiezero wrote: »

Good man yourself. Way to tell that CEO of the HSE and his bleating about mental health. Sher what would he know about it.

Plenty of people with jobs of responsibility especially in this country over the years have been ‘found out’ . I’m not going to be too concerned by the letters CEO more the words out of his mouth and actions. He’s abysmal. This geezer simply needs to not go adding himself to that Q of people being found out... his words here and the manner in which he has communicated them need looking at. By him primarily.

I’m sure he believes that he is fighting the good fight, for victims of mental health problems... sticking up for them, he probably has been ‘encouraged’... there is a much bigger fight here and he isn’t helping.

ACitizenErased

froog wrote: »

Are you not even attempting to back up your bull**** anymore? Probably for the best.

I don't need to prove anything to anyone, just like anyone else on here.

Boggles

froog wrote: »

Are you not even attempting to back up your bull**** anymore? Probably for the best.

To be fair it comes with a "guarantee", what more do you want?

JDD

The Irish Times aren't "fear mongering" when saying we will have rolling restrictions for up to 9 months.

The sensible heads on the vaccine thread have all said that that the likely time a vaccine will be approved and available is Mar/Apr 2021. That's six months. We might get it before that, but that's a small chance.

It will take a couple of months to get deliveries of the vaccine and then vaccinate all the health care workers and over 70's, who I presume will be the first in the queue. Then we have to vaccinate anyone high risk in the younger age categories. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that that all may take until June 2021. Then we can lift Level 1 restrictions and go back to normal, while the remainder of the population opt to take the vaccine or not (I suspect many will, though they might want to wait six months to give piece of mind regarding side effects).

Funsterdelux

Gruffalux wrote: »

Also



https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.03.20121442v1

Be interesting if there was a reduction in C sections during this period.

Mothers perhaps given extra time

TonyMaloney

806 cases in Scotland.

302 in Glasgow & Clyde.

JDD

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Be interesting if there was a reduction in C sections during this period.

Mothers perhaps given extra time

I doubt it. C-sections don't result from pre-birth stress. I can't see a hospital allowing a woman to labour for longer or go longer over their due date because of covid restrictions.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I guarantee the effects of lockdown have killed a large amount of people.

While no doubt having an effect, there is no evidence lockdown has killed large amounts of people, and convincing evidnce it saved a lot. Millions in Europe, no, but even based on what happened in Sweden, it is reasonable to assume it reduced the death toll by 50% plus or at least 200k.

flasher0030

I’m not sure where to post this, or if anyone can help.
But wife works in one of the private colleges in Dublin. I was under the impression that all colleges were working off an online/zoom model.
But she got an email today from the Dean, advising that lecturers had to attend classes in person in many cases, and that the college was adhering to all rules/advice issued by the Government and their health advisory crew.

She’s up in a heap as she also looks after her elderly Dad at the weekends, and also if herself or myself did get Covid, we do not have anyone in Dublin to look after the kids. I know this might seem relatively self-centered to a certain extent, but it’s still something that we would have to deal with.
The advice as I understand was to work remotely/from home if at all possible.

Does anyone know if she has any options. She has e-mailed a few of those in authority there, but got nowhere – just basically referring to the Deans remarks.
For me, it seems like a foolish stance by the College, considering that they have been operating on an online/zoom etc. basis since April, and surely they are exposing themselves from a legal point of view if someone did get the virus.

Anyway, any advice is welcome.

mohawk

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/prepare-for-six-to-nine-months-of-covid-19-restraints-warn-health-officials-1.4366922

IT being responsible as always ...

"There will be no vaccine in 9 months time"

Despite the fact that we are on the cusp of 2 being approved ...

fearmongering nonsense from the IT

It’s not really accurate to say we are on cusp of two being approved either. A level of realism is required. No point getting people’s hopes up that this will be over shortly. The vaccines are only recently entered into Stage 3. There is a chance of failure but the number of different vaccines candidates is promising that at least one will pass. There are several treatments in clinical trials I would be hopeful of one or more getting approval. However, there are guarantees.

Once we have a safe, effective vaccine we also need a lot of it. So roll out of vaccine is unlikely going to happen all at once. It could be slow. I would guess healthcare providers and at risk groups will be targeted first then after that the rest of the population.

I believe there will be a vaccine and new treatments but there are no certainty’s. Being overly negative isn’t good but being overly positive isn’t either as it raises people’s hopes that there is a quick fix right around the corner. Balance is what is required.

mandrake04

TonyMaloney wrote: »

What if you were to do multiple rapid tests?

is it 50% each time?

Multiple tests maybe 2-3 days apart, they rely on body producing a protein when it gets sick or trying to fight infection. That’s depends on the individuals immune system and whether the protein is collected at the test site, also possibly susceptible and less effective to different chemicals ie. medicines or maybe smoking etc

They have their uses, but no silver bullet.