35 properties to be leased in Galway city for asylum seekers

silver2020

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Should we expect similar announcements for homeless Irish families soon??? If not, why not?

I wish people would just FUC OFF with this "homeless irish families utter bullsh1t.

I suggest you find out the people behind these figures.

1 - People who insist on their forever home and won't take anything other than perfection

2 - People who are in perfectly good rental homes, are not under any threat of eviction but who want their free forever home

3 - Travellers who want very specific accommodation, always a bungalow and with 1/2 acre for their horses and as many bedrooms as possible once its over 4.

4 - Genuine refugees who have been granted asylum and who are waiting on a home - usually they are happy with anything offered and try their best to get into the workforce and contribute to Irish society and pay rent (unlike 1, 2 &3 above)

5 - People who no-one wants to live beside. they have been shunted out for anti social behaviour and will never change.

6 - Like 4 above, but Irish. Genuine people who do their best.


Problem is 1,2,3 & 5 shout out all the time, play a game with the media, get selected dumb politicians on their case and then some people believe all the sh1te that is spouted.


Having worked with refugees and also having successful asylum seekers working with me. I'll have them living next door to me long before 1,2,3 & 5 groups, because they will appreciate what they are given and be forever thankful.

Zookey123

The_Brood wrote: »

Are you for real? So why then do well off people live in gated communities? For the laugh of it, because they just like to throw big money away for no reason? You give out to people who have concerns but cannot afford to live anywhere else, but have nothing to say to the rich (including btw these politicians making these decisions) who have made sure they never have to live anywhere near "people of different cultures"?

And I like how you have no comment to my living conditions point. Governments like this like to beat their chests and make "human rights" headlines, but abandon the working poor to garbage conditions just because they are above the threshold line.

They probably live in gated communities to get away from the likes of you rather than the immigrants. You want segregated communities for immigrants seriously are you for real?

SchrodingersCat

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

This is not true. Here is another:

"Overall, at the macro level, refugees’ impact on wages or the unemployment rate in receiving countries will not be economically significant. What has been less noted, however, is that recent refugee cohorts have been largely homogenous: young low-skilled men account for more than a third of all arrivals to the EU.

This means that the “refugee shock” is mainly concentrated in one population group. In Sweden, for instance, the number of low-skilled young men recognised as refugees in 2014-17 constitutes close to 20% of the employed in the same gender, education and age group. The number for Germany is about 12%."

"And, industries employing predominantly men — such as manufacturing and construction — account for around half of total young low-skilled male employment in Germany and for over 40% in Sweden. Together with possible segmentation along age and experience, the competition for jobs between young low-skilled men is likely to become more intense as a result of the refugee inflow."

"In recent years, the number of low-skilled jobs relative to the total employment in the EU has decreased. While this trend could be also consistent with the decrease in supply of, rather than the demand for low-skilled workers, the data show that in the EU15 the employment rate of low-skilled workers has decreased at the same time.

Germany is a notable exception to the overall trend, whereas in Sweden the employment rate of low-skilled has declined by about 10 percentage points in the last 15 years, particularly for younger workers."

Or:

"The immigrant-refugee gap is large and persists over time
We find a large and significant negative labour market gap between refugees and comparable migrants. Refugees are 11.6% less likely to have a job and 22.1% more likely to be unemployed than other migrants with similar characteristics. Moreover, their income, occupational quality, and labour market participation are also relatively weaker."

Oh, and I did read your article but it seems not to take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees, and instead focuses on those who can work immediately... Also, it tends to focus on countries such as Germany which has a manufacturing base, where cheap labor can be employed.

Ireland has a different problem. We already have a native population who can do the low skilled jobs, and they're already struggling with living on that kind of income. By bringing in refugees who can't do higher skilled positions, you're placing extra pressure on employment within a very limited area... because Ireland has moved towards a services and technology economy, typically, low skilled jobs are declining in number, especially once automation comes into effect.

Geuze

Zookey123 wrote: »

You just said most AS are bogus and now saying they are a minority? And you said bogus AS are criminals and that a vast majority are bogus thus a vast majority of AS are criminals right? or am i missing something here.

Most AS are bogus, yes.

By bogus, I mean entering the country and making a false claim, so therefore criminal, yes.




However, somebody else then said that I said "all immigrants are criminals", see post 94.

Obviously I didn't say that, as obviously it's untrue.

There were an estimated 85,000 immigrants in the year to April 2020.

Of that 85,000, AS represent <5,000.




Obviously, the vast majority of immigrants are legal:

(1) returning Irish
(2) EU immigrants
(3) non-EU immigrants, e.g. call-centres / medical staff, etc.
(4) non-EU student visa (this one is heavily abused, e.g. false language schools, etc.)

Geuze

Zookey123 wrote: »

Whats wrong with living next to people of different cultures. I have had zero issues. Maybe try and look at the world outside your own bubble.

Nothing.

There are British, Americans, Asians, Africans here, plus Poles, Latvians - all great.

All are welcome as long as they immigrate legally.

That is the key point.

Non-EU person applies for a job as a doctor = welcome
(although it is bad that western countries poach medical staff from poor countries)

Non-EU person lies and tears up documents to falsely claim asylum = bad, bogus claim, should be deported.


Nobody is against legal migration.

(there are some crazy people for leaving the EU)

People are against illegal immigration.

Fighting Irish

Zookey123 wrote: »

Translated as the right shade of brown migrants right? Your thinly veiled racism is starting to show. Also would love to see your sources for the statement that all AS are criminals.

Anyone who understands logic would look at your comments in this thread and think you're a fool, just saying

Zookey123

Geuze wrote: »

Nothing.

There are British, Americans, Asians, Africans here, plus Poles, Latvians - all great.

All are welcome as long as they immigrate legally.

That is the key point.

Non-EU person applies for a job as a doctor = welcome
(although it is bad that western countries poach medical staff from poor countries)

Non-EU person lies and tears up documents to falsely claim asylum = bad, bogus claim, should be deported.


Nobody is against legal migration.

(there are some crazy people for leaving the EU)

People are against illegal immigration.

Your first time on boards?

Zookey123

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Anyone who understands logic would look at your comments in this thread and think you're a fool, just saying

Thanks for that insightful comment. You really made me look like the fool well done!

Gatling

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

This is not true. Here is another:

It's true that is trying to equate migrants to asylum seekers which we know the majority are bogus and reliant on social welfare to support themselves and their families

Fighting Irish

Zookey123 wrote: »

Thanks for that insightful comment. You really made me look like the fool well done!

Sorry it must be my right-wing, racist, nazi loving brain going haywire, my apologies

jmayo

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

More exaggeration. Regardless, asylum seekers have a net benefit to a countries economy.

Lets have some evidence to that claim?

Oh and nice wishy washy articles about a single asylum seeker getting a job fixing trains or one getting a scholarship to study medicine does not constitute evidence that the vast vast majority of the asylum seekers that have come to Europe are benefiting their host countries.

I would have thought some people learned in InterCert/Junior Cert maths that a single example does not prove a theory.

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Could you share your report that states that asylum seekers are a net detractor to a countries economy? I can only find the opposite.

The closest I could find from your post was that:

"A 2017 survey of leading economists found that 34% of economists agreed with the statement "The influx of refugees into Germany beginning in the summer of 2015 will generate net economic benefits for German citizens over the succeeding decade", whereas 38% were uncertain and 6% disagreed."

That would conflict with what you are stating.

So 34% of economists agreed something in the future.
Fooking hell talk about good empirical evidence.

It ranks up there with irish economists telling us the banks were as safe as houses. :rolleyes:

DangerScouse wrote: »

Everyone in those flats pay rent to the council.

There is no free housing there or anywhere in Ireland.

Paying rent out of your social welfare or getting a rent supplement from state does not really constitute paying rent.

Yurt2

Zookey123 wrote: »

Your first time on boards?

I honestly can't recall a single instance on boards where someone has advocated a complete shutout of foreign migrants into Ireland.

A hell of a lot of people however have expressed a desire for an immigration system they can have confidence in. One where illegal migration (overstayers that work in the grey or black economy and never get pulled up) isn't rewarded and fantastical stories of persecution from safe countries aren't entertained to keep underemployed lawyers in soft money. One where we can be confident that inward migration doesn't have a a detrimental effect on the labour market and declining working conditions and pay, access to affordable housing and services for the wider population.

We have none of those things at the moment unfortunately.

Kivaro

Gatling wrote: »

It's true that is trying to equate migrants to asylum seekers which we know the majority are bogus and reliant on social welfare to support themselves and their families

This is what they do on these threads.
They try to conflate asylum seekers and working immigrants. Very few in this country has an issue with the second group, but it is well known that the vast majority of asylum seekers who fly into Dublin from far off places like London or Paris are bogus. When these chancers receive their free house and lifetime welfare guarantee, they then regard Ireland as their second home.
To a large portion of asylum seekers, it is just one big expensive scam ..... expensive for the Irish worker who eventually picks up the tab.

Gatling

Kivaro wrote: »

This is what they do on these threads.
They try to conflate asylum seekers and working immigrants. Very few in this country has an issue with the second group, but it is well known that the vast majority of asylum seekers who fly into Dublin from far off places like London or Paris are bogus. When these chancers receive their free house and lifetime welfare guarantee, they then regard Ireland as their second home.
To a large portion of asylum seekers, it is just one big expensive scam ..... expensive for the Irish worker who eventually picks up the tab.

Totally agree , we've had 60,000 + through DP and yet in 20 odd years we've only managed to deport 1400 individuals
But we've one of the highest asylum refusal rates in Europe

But what about the highly skilled and trained doctors that were coming oh yeah plenty getting stuck off for sheer incompetence and danger to patients

Lord Fairlord

Smee_Again wrote: »

Imagine growing up in Ireland with all the advantages that entails and thinking that the reason you can't afford a house is because we take in less than 5000 asylum seekers each year.

What about family reunification? We're probably talking multiples of that number in reality.

Lord Fairlord

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

What about family reunification? We're probably talking multiples of that number in reality.

It's not just that... it's the resources needed to bring them up to a comparable level with other Irish people. Education and language skills so that adults can find employment that allows them to live independently of state supports. Same with the children, who have to integrate into a foreign school system, and achieve the same standards as other minors, to become employable or to attend university. Medical bills, psychology counselling (war refugees), living allowances, etc.

And how long will they need to be supported before they become independent? if they become independent at all, since many here accept that many migrants will end up on the lowest level of employment, which means a low income in a rather expensive country.

I'm generally bemused by these threads, because the obvious drawbacks of migrants arriving here are ignored. Very few migrants have the skills/education/language to be employed well on acceptance into the State.

Well, except for those who avail of normal migration policies, where they become consultants or have a position lined up before they arrive... but these people generally don't need support from the government.

ExMachina1000

Zookey123 wrote: »

From me and my fellow tax payers (I doubt you have to worry anyways). They will work in the future and pay it back into the community. That's how a civilized society works. I guess you can think of it as a morality tax, not surprised you wish to opt out.

Is there an option to opt out? Sounds great.

You can take on extra work to cover mine.

Maybe the system works after all

SchrodingersCat

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, and I did read your article but it seems not to take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees, and instead focuses on those who can work immediately...

This is not true. You must have missed this part in the report: "Our estimates indicate that these shocks [the flow of asylum seekers and the net flow of migrants] have positive effects on European economies: They significantly increase per capita GDP, reduce unemployment, and improve the balance of public finances; the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

Deleted User wrote: »

Also, it tends to focus on countries such as Germany

Not true either. In the report: The selected countries are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Iceland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Portugal, and the UK.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland has a different problem.

Ireland is included in this report that found that asylum seekers are not a burden for Western European countries.

Thanks for the report that you linked to. Im not sure what point you are trying to make? -It doesn't contradict what I posted, if that it what you were trying to do. They say that upgrading and the education and skills of low-skilled immigrants as well as to the low-skilled native population is the obvious way forward which makes sense. I also agree with its conclusion:

A drive for better inclusion of this population group into the economy should go hand in hand with efforts to integrate newcomers.

What they dont state is that we should reduce the number of asylum seekers into the country.

4068ac1elhodqr

The claim of 'will work one day' is completely unfounded, and speculation at best.

Let's look at how Jan 2021 (aka:The Big Reset) will likely start off:

i) minus 100,000 jobs due to the coming hard-brexit (itself primary caused by illegal unquantified mass migration).
ii) Covid? Perhaps double the figure above, mostly low skilled workers suffering the worst (retail and hospitality are getting wrecked).
iii) Automation: approaching 2030, nearly half of all low, even many mid-level jobs will be replaced by automation (PWC report).
iv) Young males 18-25 are at the very highest rate of workforce disposal (ONS figures follow PWC in this regard).

For the 100% genuine AS folks, fine and dandy, but this is (small) minority.
For skilled workers, use the visa system as others do.
For the economic migrants e.g. 99.97% of Albanians (followed by upper percentiles of Zimbabwe & Nigerians) had IPO applications to Ireland 'rejected' in 2018.

Thus, more the most part, it's simply a very, very, expensive charity.

Zookey123

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is there an option to opt out? Sounds great.

You can take on extra work to cover mine.

Maybe the system works after all

So you don't like scroungers but want to scrounge yourself? Get a job pay tax help your fellow humans otherwise no place for you in this society. Isn't that what you preach yourself after all?

JoeFritzl

Someone I got chatting to told me he was volunteering at one of these places a few weeks ago. Said he offered to give them a ride to Aldi to buy their shopping, and a lift back. While there, the woman brought him inside to buy him a gift and then at the checkout she didn't have anywhere near enough to pay for all the shopping and he ended up footing the bill.

I don't want to paint them all with the same brush, but common sense tells you that if you give a child chocolate everyday for a week, he's going to expect it everyday for the rest of his life. You don't make a habit out of helping people, because then they become dependent on it.

This is a known fact too. Countries don't provide aid to African nations because they're afraid they will become reliant on it. They try their best to encourage the country to become self sufficient. If someone comes to this country, great. Get your gloves on, get to work and pay your way like the rest of us.

Kivaro

Dorildos wrote: »

This is terrible news.

.....
I left home to work 7 years ago age 23, a young fella. Housing was a joke back then. I'm 30 now and it's an even bigger joke. Give me a chance, please.

You are correct Dorildos, and I feel terrible for you and the many thousands of other hardworking people in this country who will suffer due to this new independent living policy for asylum seekers. The government seems to be always screwing over the people who play by the rules ... their rules, but yet they seem to end up on the bottom of the pile.

If you are from Nigeria or Pakistan and fly into Dublin from another safe country in Europe and request asylum, the Irish government's response is: here is your new house/home, plus all the ancillary welfare payments that goes with that. Irish people cannot compete against the ability of the Irish government to out-price them for homes or rent for asylum seekers.
It is an appalling disgrace.

SchrodingersCat

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

This is not true. You must have missed this part in the report: "Our estimates indicate that these shocks [the flow of asylum seekers and the net flow of migrants] have positive effects on European economies: They significantly increase per capita GDP, reduce unemployment, and improve the balance of public finances; the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

nope, I didn't miss it... which is why I linked to other articles talking about the problems of low skilled workers, and the decline of the jobs that such workers avail of.

Not true either. In the report: The selected countries are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Iceland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Portugal, and the UK.

Well that seems strange because if you look at individual reports from countries such as Sweden, it shows a remarkably high rate of unemployment for refugees. Same with Ireland.

Ireland is included in this report that found that asylum seekers are not a burden for Western European countries.

Except that they are since they don't work during the asylum process, and after acceptance, the majority don't have the educational requirements to obtain independent living. Care to provide actual facts/figures to prove otherwise? rather than relying on an article that simply states that it's the case.

Throughout Europe, there have been very mixed results from refugees and migrants after the Asylum process has finished. I'm not saying that it's all bad... but it's far from all good either.

Thanks for the report that you linked to. Im not sure what point you are trying to make? -It doesn't contradict what I posted, if that it what you were trying to do. They say that upgrading and the education and skills of low-skilled immigrants as well as to the low-skilled native population is the obvious way forward which makes sense. I also agree with its conclusion:

How long does it take to impart language acquisition and education to the level where people can obtain the kinds of jobs that allow them to work independently of state benefits. Throughout Europe there has been widespread failures in teaching the host nations language to migrants. Not all... but many fail to reach an appropriate level which would be needed for employment, and that's just the language, and not the educating of them for actual skills.

What they dont state is that we should reduce the number of asylum seekers into the country.

Which I didn't say either. I don't believe that.

We should deal with the migrants we currently have, create systems that are proven to work efficiently, establish workable ways to integrate foreign groups, etc.... before allowing in more. By allowing more in, we put greater strain on a system that is not very good at dealing with those we currently have. It's irresponsible, and will lead to long term costs for both the taxpayer and society.

Geuze

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Irish_Refugee_Protection_Programme_(IRPP)

This scheme seems genuine, and I support my taxes being used to finance it.

These are genuine refugees (or at least it seems they are).



Background
On 10 September 2015, as part of Ireland’s response to the migration crisis in central and southern Europe, the Government established the Irish Refugee Protection Programme (IRPP). Under this programme, the Government committed to accept up to 4,000 people into the State, through a combination of the European Union Relocation Programme established by two EU Council Decisions in 2015 to assist Italy and Greece, and the UNHCR-led Refugee Resettlement Programme currently focussed on resettling refugees from Lebanon and Jordan. The Press Releases announcing the Government decision are available below.

10/09/2015 - Ireland to accept up to 4,000 persons under Relocation and Resettlement programmes
10/09/2015 - Update on Ireland’s Response to EU Migration and Refugee Crisis
13/09/2015 - Information note on public offers of support in response to EU refugee crisis - Department of Justice and Equality
14/09/2015 - Statement by Minister Fitzgerald on the Migration Crisis Following an Emergency Meeting of Justice and Home Affairs Ministers


The Government Decision to accept 4,000 people into the State did not contain a time limit, but the Relocation Programme had a time limit of approximately two years. It has not been possible for Ireland to deliver fully on the numbers allocated to it, primarily because those numbers did not actually exist on the ground in Greece. Hence, the Government has had to find other mechanisms to deliver on the commitments made by Ireland.

The shortfall in numbers will be filled by family reunification arrivals under the IRPP Humanitarian Admission Programme (IHAP), and by our pledge to the EU ad hoc disembarkation/voluntary relocation arrangements from vessels in the Mediterranean.

As of 31 December 20119, progress across the various strands of the IRPP was as follows:

Under the EU Relocation strand, 1,022 people were relocated to Ireland

Under UNHCR Resettlement, a commitment was made to resettle 1,985 people, of which 1,913 resettlements have now been completed;

Under the IRPP Humanitarian Admission Programme 2018/19 (IHAP), a commitment was made to admit 740 family members of refugees;

Under other mechanisms (Search and Rescue Missions, Unaccompanied Minors from Greece, Calais Special Project), a commitment was made to admit 253 people, of which 113 have arrived.

Gatling

Anyone seen this article


https://www.thejournal.ie/failed-asylum-seeker-claims-he-was-abandoned-by-gardai-at-airport-5211749-Sep2020/

Geuze

Here are the origins of the top 5 AS arrivals during 2019:




970 Albanians = all bogus, it might not be the nicest place in the world, but they aren't fleeing war

635 Georgians = ditto

Zimbabwe = 445, no direct flights to here, so these all flouted the Dublin Regulations

Nigeria = 385

South Africa = 315, if you are fleeing war or persecution, why skip many, many peaceful countries, and claim here?

gerogerigegege

Ireland is heading to take in a serious number of asylum seekers. this country will never be the same again. The government have NO MANDATE to do this.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0923/1166868-eu-migration-policy/

gw80

Gatling wrote: »

Anyone seen this article


https://www.thejournal.ie/failed-asylum-seeker-claims-he-was-abandoned-by-gardai-at-airport-5211749-Sep2020/

If mr phelim o neill is so concerned about the inhuman treatment of the man why doesn't he send him the price of a plane ticket to S Africa

ExMachina1000

Geuze wrote: »

Here are the origins of the top 5 AS arrivals during 2019:




970 Albanians = all bogus, it might not be the nicest place in the world, but they aren't fleeing war

635 Georgians = ditto

Zimbabwe = 445, no direct flights to here, so these all flouted the Dublin Regulations

Nigeria = 385

South Africa = 315, if you are fleeing war or persecution, why skip many, many peaceful countries, and claim here?

Because people like some of the posters on here are happy to put their shoulder to the wheel to help provide free housing, free health care and allowances via taxation.

jackofalltrades

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Because they do. Asylum seekers are a net benefit to economies.

Where in the article is this claim supported?

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Ireland is included in this report that found that asylum seekers are not a burden for Western European countries.

Your right Ireland is included. No specific claims are made about Ireland though, which would really help the discussion.
The report seems to have firm findings on immigrants buts says the effects of asylum seekers are less clear.