Beef price tracker 2

White Clover

charolais0153 wrote: »

How many on this forum have got out of finishing cattle ? Do the factory's control bass reeves jjameson or kkman or yourself, simple answer is no , they own a small proportion of the kill and the same people supply the rest . Too much supply .

I haven't killed cattle since last year.
They own a proportion of the kill that is significant enough to manipulate the market. Their agents are admitting what is going on.

Good loser

White Clover wrote: »

At this point in time, the factories don't control the supply of lamb. They don't have feedlots and the loss of British lamb is forcing them to pay. Its the market working, ie supply and demand.

With beef, the factories have control of supply through their own feedlots and contracted farmers that they have bankrupted previously are feeding for them for a wage. It is market control and manipulation.

Feedlots are all to the advantage of store producers - demand is increased and thus prices are higher than they might otherwise be. Factories are not all knowing; they can mis-judge markets. Aren't store producers as entitled to a market price just like beef producers? No beef man/woman needs to send stock to a factory - see Anto above.
Prices increases last week (and this week) because of increased demand in UK.
Market forces.

kk.man

Danzy wrote: »

The Irish economy and society would be better off if the beef industry here had collapsed.

The damage to the wider economy, the criminality and corruption brought into politics here, cost much more than the industry is worth.

Unfortunately the beef business world wide is corrupt and always have been.

As a wise man said to me once name a multi millionaire who made his 1st million straight.

White Clover

Good loser wrote: »

Wasn't importing lambs from UK market forces working through.
Just as pig farmers send many pigs north every week. Suits both parties - that's how a market works.
Your example of a trading transaction is irrelevant. Every load of cattle has a story attached. Remember buying stock for feedlots supports/increases the price of stores.
Just think how the calf market works. Same difference to beef market.

The purchase and transport of lambs from Britain that cost significantly more than local lamb was done to keep prices down. To believe anything else is beyond comprehension.
My example of a trading transaction is a strategy, it is far from irrelevant.
How do you come to the conclusion that the factories have increased the price farmers get for selling stores?

Jjameson

Good loser wrote: »

Wasn't importing lambs from UK market forces working through.
Just as pig farmers send many pigs north every week. Suits both parties - that's how a market works.
Your example of a trading transaction is irrelevant. Every load of cattle has a story attached. Remember buying stock for feedlots supports/increases the price of stores.
Just think how the calf market works. Same difference to beef market.

Beef price has a direct link to store price. A strategic pull of factory quotes has a knock on affect in the store market. One is linked to the other.
Icm actually tried to feed their own lambs a few years back. Contracting the son of their former owner on a mixture of macamore clay and rented parcels of land. 4000lambs came from Donegal to beara peninsula to ballygarrett.
A wet winter similar to this ensued a twist for the fencing contractor and the meal merchant.
200 lambs were hastily killed one Tuesday morning at an average ko weight of 15.8 kg.
Between mortality and lack of thrive the expensive uk lamb were a cheaper market control measure.
And have been since until this year. But are Icm operating at a loss? I don’t think so. They have shown “the market” can give this.
In 2013 beef was up on €5.00 a kg.
Find any consumer dismay at inflated retail? You won’t because the margin is in it.

Good loser

Bass Reeves wrote: »

For the last twenty years we were fed a tale. The story was that a kill that was equal all year long would lead to higher paying markets and that farmers would benefit from this. As well we were told that consolidation if the industry would also see benefits passed on to farmers. When dairy expansion happened the processor's told everyone that they could handle a kill of 40k cattle/week.

We are now left with a beef price that is a 50-70c/kg below production for winter beef

We're not infants.
Who's 'we' and who's 'they'.
Everyone must make their own calls, believe and disbelieve as their judgement informs.
Just watch the market.
I will be very very interested in two year's time (DV) as to whether beef prices will be more or less than €3.50/kg - when my €50 calves come fit.
My guess is less.

Danzy

kk.man wrote: »

Unfortunately the beef business world wide is corrupt and always have been.

As a wise man said to me once name a multi millionaire who made his 1st million straight.

I know a few, there are levels of corruption though. Beef is on a senior tier.

Is it such a pronounced negative influence across the world though.

Here it has been a repeated threat to the wider economy, law and the rule of law.

Jjameson

kk.man wrote: »

Unfortunately the beef business world wide is corrupt and always have been.

As a wise man said to me once name a multi millionaire who made his 1st million straight.

https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/dutton_survey/dutton_survey_chapter3.3.htm

kk.man

Danzy wrote: »

I know a few, there are levels of corruption though. Beef is on a senior tier.

Is it such a pronounced negative influence across the world though.

Here it has been a repeated threat to the wider economy, law and the rule of law.

Why would it be a threat?.. We are a nation of winking and nodding. Even praising the guy who did wrong no not praising but pointing out his good side. Its not all the big guys either I could name dozens of farmers within a twenty miles who used angel dust back in the day and they would not be seen by society as 'corrupt'.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But sure we alway have to get back to that and about begrudgery

Processors margins are really no ones business but their own, it's futile for some farmers to carry on the way they do. They're actually making it less likely to get a price rise.
Processors are no worse than the civil servants, they take advantage of a poor system. and yes the whole thing stinks of begrudgery

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Processors margins are really no ones business but their own, it's futile for some farmers to carry on the way they do. They're actually making it less likely to get a price rise.
Processors are no worse than the civil servants, they take advantage of a poor system. and yes the whole thing stinks of begrudgery

The antagonist rises from his slumber.
Poor systems allow certain types of characters to flourish. Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths.
Give them an inch and they take a mile but people have to stand when certain lines are crossed mile has to be taken off them at some point or chaos ensues..

Pat Smith!

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

The antagonist rises from his slumber.
Poor systems allow certain types of characters to flourish. Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths.
Give them an inch and they take a mile but people have to stand when certain lines are crossed mile has to be taken off them at some point or chaos ensues..

Pat Smith!

There's a lot of antagonists on here, making statements that they can't prove.
The market sets the price, price won't change while the supply is there, it has no reason to.
I walked away from IFA when Beef price became a joke, and when you did mention Pat Smith, what about the (democratically elected by farmer reprentatives) national Treasurers of that Era. Where was there heads when they were signing Pats' cheques They were farmers, are they any different or better than the processors. There's plenty of your ''certain types of characters'' farming as well

manjou

Wrangler is right in so far as processors margins are their buisness. They are able to raise and lower price because they can. If they wanted to drop price to 0 they could. We are the ones who produce the cattle and should do something about it. If everyone reduced numbers and had alot less cattle on farms by less sucklers and buying less sucks etc. As for difference between value of beef bought and sold there is where the real skulduggery could be going on as is the difference a healthy margin or cheaper beef imports being sold as irish and pushing vslue of beef exports up.

Jb1989

manjou wrote: »

Wrangler is right in so far as processors margins are their buisness. They are able to raise and lower price because they can. If they wanted to drop price to 0 they could. We are the ones who produce the cattle and should do something about it. If everyone reduced numbers and had alot less cattle on farms by less sucklers and buying less sucks etc. As for difference between value of beef bought and sold there is where the real skulduggery could be going on as is the difference a healthy margin or cheaper beef imports being sold as irish and pushing vslue of beef exports up.

Exactly, till people do as you've said, the pointless to and fro on beef prices will continue.

Robson99

Jb1989 wrote: »

Exactly, till people do as you've said, the pointless to and fro on beef prices will continue.

It won't matter if the numbers are reduced or not. When you have a Cartel controlling the price supply is irrelevant

leoch

Robson99 wrote: »

It won't matter if the numbers are reduced or not. When you have a Cartel controlling the price supply is irrelevant

Yea ur right Robson and the cartel have the backing of our government and the farmers don't ,simple as that.....so farmers will never win this argument ....

lalababa

Like wrangler said.... paraphrasing.... don't load your cattle till the price is right for you....but there are too many busy fools I'm afraid.

richie123

Robson99 wrote: »

It won't matter if the numbers are reduced or not. When you have a Cartel controlling the price supply is irrelevant

Thats rubbish ...the sheer demand for lambs is creating an excellent price.
It would be the exact same for beef if the same conditions arose.

Jb1989

richie123 wrote: »

Thats rubbish ...the sheer demand for lambs is creating an excellent price.
It would be the exact same for beef if the same conditions arose.

The only reason a cartel is there because of the cattle.
No cattle, no cartel.

Anto_Meath

The last thing the cartel will do is rise the base price, like we see pre Christmas, instead of rising the base price they bought anything with flesh in the marts at prices far exceeding with they would kill out at the base prices offered, this was really evident with AAx & Hex cross cattle, they were making well in excess of €4/ kg in the marts. I am believer that farmers should not be afraid to show factory fit cattle in the mart, especially with the on line marts, where Northern Ireland factories are actively buying cattle. Its one way we can have a little control and create a little competition for beef.

wrangler

Jb1989 wrote: »

The only reason a cartel is there because of the cattle.
No cattle, no cartel.

Agreed, I wouldn't think there's a cartel in the sheep trade now

richie123

wrangler wrote: »

Agreed, I wouldn't think there's a cartel in the sheep trade now

Same story again lads I'm tired of listening to it.
Blame everyone and everything else
Too many cattle in the country, its that simple.
Theres no big conspiracy.
Supply and demand.fools willing to fatten year after year after year and fling chape cattle and big Larry laughing at them.
Only ourselves to blame.

kk.man

Did anyone hear of the famous "barn meeting"?

I am not going to elaborate anymore than the above question. If ye did well and good if ye didn't than so be it.

Jjameson

richie123 wrote: »

Same story again lads I'm tired of listening to it.
Blame everyone and everything else
Too many cattle in the country, its that simple.
Theres no big conspiracy.
Supply and demand.fools willing to fatten year after year after year and fling chape cattle and big Larry laughing at them.
Only ourselves to blame.

That is in essence what’s feeding the cartel.
It is sfp, taxation, pensions, spousal and independent incomes, and old money turning.

And rather than actually building on this base for local economy (both for societal and economic benefit) a proportion of this money is being siphoned off consistently by this same cartel. it’s no big conspiracy.

A horse in Tesco mince is enough to show how shaky the the current set up is despite having been over 40 years getting to this point.

I’ve been alive long enough to see rushes being sold for money, sheep doubling in price since I sold my first bunch of lambs 12 years ago, I am optimistic about the wind changing always!

Jjameson

kk.man wrote: »

Did anyone hear of the famous "barn meeting"?

I am not going to elaborate anymore than the above question. If ye did well and good if ye didn't than so be it.

Cryptic! Are you looking to find some fellow free masons or swingers here kk man?

1373

lalababa wrote: »

Like wrangler said.... paraphrasing.... don't load your cattle till the price is right for you....but there are too many busy fools I'm afraid.

Do you and wrangler set your own prices ?

DBK1

lalababa wrote: »

Like wrangler said.... paraphrasing.... don't load your cattle till the price is right for you....but there are too many busy fools I'm afraid.

Unfortunately in the beef game it’s not as simple as that.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying and farmers are our own worst enemy’s in a lot of ways. But you can’t just decide not to kill your cattle if they’re fit to kill as the odds are stacked against you then.

Maybe with friesian’s or other hard to fatten breeds you will get away with it for a few weeks but the continental and more traditional beef breeds you can’t. They will be deemed either over age, over fat or over weight (or possibly all of the above) and you will get slaughtered altogether on price then.

wrangler

1373 wrote: »

Do you and wrangler set your own prices ?

I just stopped farming cattle, not much sense in doing the same thing every year and expecting a different result.

charolais0153

DBK1 wrote: »

Unfortunately in the beef game it’s not as simple as that.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying and farmers are our own worst enemy’s in a lot of ways. But you can’t just decide not to kill your cattle if they’re fit to kill as the odds are stacked against you then.

Maybe with friesian’s or other hard to fatten breeds you will get away with it for a few weeks but the continental and more traditional beef breeds you can’t. They will be deemed either over age, over fat or over weight (or possibly all of the above) and you will get slaughtered altogether on price then.

Well don't buy replacements until you are happy with price

amacca

DBK1 wrote: »

Unfortunately in the beef game it’s not as simple as that.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying and farmers are our own worst enemy’s in a lot of ways. But you can’t just decide not to kill your cattle if they’re fit to kill as the odds are stacked against you then.

Maybe with friesian’s or other hard to fatten breeds you will get away with it for a few weeks but the continental and more traditional beef breeds you can’t. They will be deemed either over age, over fat or over weight (or possibly all of the above) and you will get slaughtered altogether on price then.

For me the biggest impediment is the 30/36 month malarkey....id stock less here and hold away happily if they didn't have that lever to force you into turning over numbers. Too many factors in favour of the other side.