Beef price tracker 2

lalababa

1373 wrote: »

Do you and wrangler set your own prices ?

If you are losing 50 euros a head on 100 cattle... Then cut your numbers to the stocking minimum. If more cut their numbers cattle would become scarce.

kk.man

lalababa wrote: »

If you are losing 50 euros a head on 100 cattle... Then cut your numbers to the stocking minimum. If more cut their numbers cattle would become scarce.

A big problem is dairy cross cattle in the system. If the suckler bred animal and the dairy cull cows were only available to the factories beef would be a good price. This diary expansion has come at a cost to the beef farmer.

Water John

kk.man wrote: »

The big problem is dairy cross cattle in the system. If the suckler bred animal and the dairy cull cows available to the factories beef would be a good price. This diary expansion has come at a cost to the beef farmer.

If a good animal was available from the dairy herd, then the suckler herd would be naturally reduced. Much easier to rear stores than managing suckler cows.

Hard Knocks

Water John wrote: »

If a good animal was available from the dairy herd, then the suckler herd would be naturally reduced. Much easier to rear stores than managing suckler cows.

Don’t know about that
When things go right in suckling there’s little to do
It’s when it goes wrong you’re in bother
Lots of work to rearing calves

Water John

Main problem is, so much of the land is tied up feeding the cow. If you had a good supply of calves, how many could your farm carry either to 500kg or to finish, in comparison? If the number was above 40, I would say an auto feeder would be justified.
Calves and yearlings, you'd carry a lot of stock, esp if sold before the second winter.

Cavanjack

kk.man wrote: »

A big problem is dairy cross cattle in the system. If the suckler bred animal and the dairy cull cows were only available to the factories beef would be a good price. This diary expansion has come at a cost to the beef farmer.

Yet lads are tripping over themselves to buy calves every spring. You’d think the supply was going to dry up.

kk.man

Cavanjack wrote: »

Yet lads are tripping over themselves to buy calves every spring. You’d think the supply was going to dry up.

And teagasc is pushing the merigoround.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

Main problem is, so much of the land is tied up feeding the cow. If you had a good supply of calves, how many could your farm carry either to 500kg or to finish, in comparison? If the number was above 40, I would say an auto feeder would be justified.
Calves and yearlings, you'd carry a lot of stock, esp if sold before the second winter.

The big advantage I saw with sheep was my income depended on how good my management was, All I ever bought was one or two rams/year
Anytime you go out to buy stock you have to pay more than their value. calves aren't worth what they're making by the time it's all added up.
Granted there is guys doing well in beef farming through not only good management but also careful buying and selling but they're few and far between

Bass Reeves

kk.man wrote: »

A big problem is dairy cross cattle in the system. If the suckler bred animal and the dairy cull cows were only available to the factories beef would be a good price. This diary expansion has come at a cost to the beef farmer.

The problem is not dairy cross cattle the problem is lads willing to work for nothing. This is very applicable to sucklers. Dairy cross cattle will always be there. They are a byproduct of the industry. Even in the indoor feedlot dairy systems calves are born.

I can understand a lad stocking at a low rate to draw payments whether it is sucklers or dairy stock. What I cannot understand is lads pushing numbers to either make a very small profit or no margin at all.

The reason dairy expansion has come at the expense of beef farmers is partly due to the fault of those same farmers. Look at this year we have more dairy calves than ever, we have exports down by 20%, cows are calving earlier and lads are paying more for calves and they must be buying more if them. While calf slaughter numbers are slightly ahead of last year it a drop in the ocean compared to calves produced.

The worst part is even though rations are more expensive than ever before lads cannot pour enough down the throat's of cattle.

Water John wrote: »

If a good animal was available from the dairy herd, then the suckler herd would be naturally reduced. Much easier to rear stores than managing suckler cows.

I am not sure, too many lads are waiting for a destocking scheme. As well for some reason a lot of suckled farmers are bad around the ring . If they change from sucklers they still hark after suckled bred cattle, feeding ration or breeding heifers.

Water John wrote: »

Main problem is, so much of the land is tied up feeding the cow. If you had a good supply of calves, how many could your farm carry either to 500kg or to finish, in comparison? If the number was above 40, I would say an auto feeder would be justified.
Calves and yearlings, you'd carry a lot of stock, esp if sold before the second winter.

It not just the land tied up feeding cows its also so many different groups of cattle on the farm. Culls that need to be kept away from the bull, having to split weanling heifers and bulls if calves are born early in the year. If buying replacement heifers for bulling keeping them away from your nature bull if he is a hard calved. Therefore you get no economies of scale and its hard to run a paddock system.

I am running a store to beef system and manage a unit per acre. It would be Good going to get cattle to 500 kgs. A lot of suckled systems fail to manage that across the board by the end of the second summer. Calf to store you would carry a unit per acre handy and maybe carry a few for early slaughter the following summer as well.

Cavanjack wrote: »

Yet lads are tripping over themselves to buy calves every spring. You’d think the supply was going to dry up.

Ya I cannot fathom it this year 100k more calves so far I think, 20% less exported and calf slaughter numbers only running 2-3k ahead of last year. Next year and the year after will be right sh!t shows.

morphy87

Talking to a man yesterday he sells feed for a company and finishes a lot of cattle off the grass,he told me he gave up winter finishing 3 years ago he was making nothing, he still finishes a lot of cattle off the grass, stuffing cattle with meal doesn’t add up he said

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

And teagasc is pushing the merigoround.

Well they're saying calves are overpriced, That's not encouraging farmers is it

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/what-are-dairy-bull-calves-worth-now-based-on-current-beef-prices/

Bass Reeves

morphy87 wrote: »

Talking to a man yesterday he sells feed for a company and finishes a lot of cattle off the grass,he told me he gave up winter finishing 3 years ago he was making nothing, he still finishes a lot of cattle off the grass, stuffing cattle with meal doesn’t add up he said

I am if the same opinion but too many lads think numbers are the answer and meal hides there poor farming ability

older by the day

wrangler wrote: »

Well they're saying calves are overpriced, That's not encouraging farmers is it

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/what-are-dairy-bull-calves-worth-now-based-on-current-beef-prices/

Brexit, covid, vegans, sher there should be nothing for calves or yearlings yet they seem better this year. "Goes to show, you never can tell" . Drought, floods in other places can change prices over here.

morphy87

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am if the same opinion but too many lads think numbers are the answer and meal hides there poor farming ability

In your opinion how long more will this winter finishing continue? I know 4 or 5 lads that have gave it up in the last year or two,

Jjameson

morphy87 wrote: »

In your opinion how long more will this winter finishing continue? I know 4 or 5 lads that have gave it up in the last year or two,

It will always be there. The talk about the big exodus is there every spring since I was a nipper!

I’m not in the habit of repeating myself I say I’m not in the habit of repeating myself but the money that turning and being lost in beef farming isn’t linked to cattle at all. Milk money, Bps,spousal and independent income,pensions,and perceived tax avoidance.

The “haves” are the core of the supply.

richie123

It just goes to show you how retarded a lot of farmers are.
They wouldn't last a week ina normal business setup outside of farming in the real world.
It beggars belief the price calves are making at the minute.
Its the same case of "sure what else is there to do instead"
Banging the head of a wall waiting for it to crack.

The Jersey calf needs 250 euros.
The freisin calf needs somewhere around the hundred.
Angus and heretofore you could afford to give 15 to 20
to get any kind of a margin out of them.
These are teagasc figures and as someone who bought them all in the past they're not wrong.

Jjameson

richie123 wrote: »

It just goes to show you how retarded a lot of farmers are.
They wouldn't last a week ina normal business setup outside of farming in the real world.
It beggars belief the price calves are making at the minute.
Its the same case of "sure what else is there to do instead"
Banging the head of a wall waiting for it to crack.

The Jersey calf needs 250 euros.
The freisin calf needs somewhere around the hundred.
Angus and heretofore you could afford to give 15 to 20
to get any kind of a margin out of them.
These are teagasc figures and as someone who bought them all in the past they're not wrong.

Ah that was a long time in the making. The brighter younger sibling was sent to get an education, priesthood and the gom was kept at home from school!
In jest of course,

But in fairness the reasonable quality Angus her and good type friesian cattle that were well done and have good weight for age would look to be leaving a turn since December?

older by the day

Of course it's easy to say calves are overpriced. But if you go to the bother of buying a good bull 2000 euro, stay up at night watching her calf . Spend five weeks going across the yard with buckets, while the milk tank is there in the house. Straw 22euro, hay 30euro, 8 litres of milk/day at wk 2 on wards. 8*35= 2.80. Calf museli, 12euro. The odd vet call. Those nice calves don't arrive at the Mart by magic

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

Of course it's easy to say calves are overpriced. But if you go to the bother of buying a good bull 2000 euro, stay up at night watching her calf . Spend five weeks going across the yard with buckets, while the milk tank is there in the house. Straw 22euro, hay 30euro, 8 litres of milk/day at wk 2 on wards. 8*35= 2.80. Calf museli, 12euro. The odd vet call. Those nice calves don't arrive at the Mart by magic

Normal business people only buy something they can make a margin on, but farmers on the other hand don't consider that when buying calves.

Bass Reeves

morphy87 wrote: »

In your opinion how long more will this winter finishing continue? I know 4 or 5 lads that have gave it up in the last year or two,

As long as a piece of string. Lads just will not learn and for the blast two years BEAM and Exceptional aid are a discouragement as well it keeping lads in the game they are afraid they would miss out on something

Jjameson wrote: »

It will always be there. The talk about the big exodus is there every spring since I was a nipper!

I’m not in the habit of repeating myself I say I’m not in the habit of repeating myself but the money that turning and being lost in beef farming isn’t linked to cattle at all. Milk money, Bps,spousal and independent income,pensions,and perceived tax avoidance.

The “haves” are the core of the supply.

I think a lot of it is. Too many happy to keep cattle for BOS. Just even look at the calf market lads buying really poor quality calves for 5-10 euro when for 15-30 more you will buy a calf that will make 100-150 more in 12-18 months time and the inverse is true of 300+ euro calves,

The day of spouses not working is gone with nearly 20 years now. Profit is a mindset. There is a core of farmers at nothing and it is across the board. Most lads hovering around the ring waiting for a bargain would be better off shoveling into a cement mixer for a builder

richie123 wrote: »

It just goes to show you how retarded a lot of farmers are.
They wouldn't last a week ina normal business setup outside of farming in the real world.
It beggars belief the price calves are making at the minute.
Its the same case of "sure what else is there to do instead"
Banging the head of a wall waiting for it to crack.

The Jersey calf needs 250 euros.
The freisin calf needs somewhere around the hundred.
Angus and heretofore you could afford to give 15 to 20
to get any kind of a margin out of them.
These are teagasc figures and as someone who bought them all in the past they're not wrong.

A lot of lads just cannot add 2+2. Most cannot farm either, they will happily spend 20-50k on machinery abd be traipsing around after cattle that break out and stick a Bush or pallets in the gab

Jjameson wrote: »

Ah that was a long time in the making. The brighter younger sibling was sent to get an education, priesthood and the gom was kept at home from school!
In jest of course,

But in fairness the reasonable quality Angus her and good type friesian cattle that were well done and have good weight for age would look to be leaving a turn since December?

Its true however 3-4 generations of that have left us where we are.

morphy87

older by the day wrote: »

Of course it's easy to say calves are overpriced. But if you go to the bother of buying a good bull 2000 euro, stay up at night watching her calf . Spend five weeks going across the yard with buckets, while the milk tank is there in the house. Straw 22euro, hay 30euro, 8 litres of milk/day at wk 2 on wards. 8*35= 2.80. Calf museli, 12euro. The odd vet call. Those nice calves don't arrive at the Mart by magic

What do you think would be a fair price for a contenental bull calf 3 weeks old? I have seen some selling and they are making big money

Bass Reeves

morphy87 wrote: »

What do you think would be a fair price for a contenental bull calf 3 weeks old? I have seen some selling and they are making big money

It not so much what is a fair price as what a lad can afford to pay and make a margin. He gross 1350-1450 euroin the beef business killing 360-385kgs at present. Assuming that he is kept as a store and moved to slaughter. Take 80-100 euro out for transport, mart fees (as calf and store) and slaughter fees. Give the lad that buys him as a calf and rears him to 18 months 700 euro to cover his costs and make a margin and get him to 550-600 kgs. He will cost 3/day for a 100 days to finish.btgats 300 euro allow the finisher a 100 euro margin and another 30-60 to cover misc costs. That is about 1230-1250 euro.

Depending on the year and weight he is got to 100-200 euro. However that is from a beef buyers point if view. Man calving him needs another 300+ at 5 weeks to make it worth his while. If beef was 50c/ kg more it would make sense for all the lads involved

Jjameson

morphy87 wrote: »

What do you think would be a fair price for a contenental bull calf 3 weeks old? I have seen some selling and they are making big money

The fair value of a 3 week potential o+ Continental Bull calf should be 3 to 500€.
And a o+ grade 380 kg carcass should be 1700€ +.
As a man pointed out getting a good calf alive healthy and to 3 weeks old is no mean feat.

patsy_mccabe

Have any of ye ever heard of the free market? You don't have to buy. Nobody holding a gun to your head.

morphy87

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It not so much what is a fair price as what a lad can afford to pay and make a margin. He gross 1350-1450 euroin the beef business killing 360-385kgs at present. Assuming that he is kept as a store and moved to slaughter. Take 80-100 euro out for transport, mart fees (as calf and store) and slaughter fees. Give the lad that buys him as a calf and rears him to 18 months 700 euro to cover his costs and make a margin and get him to 550-600 kgs. He will cost 3/day for a 100 days to finish.btgats 300 euro allow the finisher a 100 euro margin and another 30-60 to cover misc costs. That is about 1230-1250 euro.

Depending on the year and weight he is got to 100-200 euro. However that is from a beef buyers point if view. Man calving him needs another 300+ at 5 weeks to make it worth his while. If beef was 50c/ kg more it would make sense for all the lads involved

I bought some limousine calf’s the end of April 19, I weighed them two weeks ago they were 595kgs, I will Graze these again and sell mid September as they will still be under age

Bass Reeves

morphy87 wrote: »

I bought some limousine calf’s the end of April 19, I weighed them two weeks ago they were 595kgs, I will Graze these again and sell mid September as they will still be under age

Would not disagree with that however you have to watch a number of factors FS on animals and from June on access the market to assertain when best to sell. For instance while these cattle will average around a kg a day KW from June on a 10c/ kg drop in base price will take 15-20 days LW gain to correct. In general the last few years base price varied by 10-15c/ kg over the summer. I would be targeting them for August more than September.

Water John

The 50c, that makes the difference is only a 12% rise on the price to the farmer. As a % of the retail price it's absolute peanuts.
An interesting comparison is standard and Fairtrade bananas. The difference is price of the bunch is quite small, but it makes all the difference when that bit is given back through the chain to the grower.

morphy87

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Would not disagree with that however you have to watch a number of factors FS on animals and from June on access the market to assertain when best to sell. For instance while these cattle will average around a kg a day KW from June on a 10c/ kg drop in base price will take 15-20 days LW gain to correct. In general the last few years base price varied by 10-15c/ kg over the summer. I would be targeting them for August more than September.

I usually feed 4 kgs of ration for 6 weeks as I find it improves the grades,all my contenentals and even the few angus I had last year nearly all graded r’s,you are right about the variation of prices around that time of the year, back in 2018 my neighbor sold his cattle the first week of September and got 390 I went 3 weeks later and it was a struggle to get 3 75

jfh

Any update on steers under 24 months?

din090782

Just wondering if anyone here has experience of buying yearling cattle (usually bucket reared Angus and whiteheads) from a cattle dealer around March/April time of year and selling them back to the same dealer for feed lots after about 7 or 8 months. Roughly how much per kilo gained could I expect to recieve at the end of the 8 months? (Take for example if the price/kg stays the same in April as it does in October and they gain 120kgs). Thanks.