Terror incident in Paris

Kivaro

stefanovich wrote: »

Turkey need to be kicked out of NATO and held to account for the situation with Armenia.

Situation? I think we need to be honest on what actually happened in Armenia.
It was genocide implemented by Turkey with the systematic mass murder and expulsion of 1.5 million ethnic Armenians. The Turkish policy was that of extermination under the guise of deportation. Rape was an integral part of the genocide; a genocide perpetrated by the Muslim majority against a minority Christian community.

Montage of Feck

I've a lot of new found respect for Macron, standing upto the fascists and demagogues, makes a change from the now almost ritual process of grovelling apologies and appeasement.

Sand

stefanovich wrote: »

Turkey need to be kicked out of NATO and held to account for the situation with Armenia.

There is to my knowledge no mechanism for 'kicking out' a NATO member. This was understood. Any effort to do so would require quite the bit of legal wrangling as it would rely on proving Turkey had breached its treaty requirements and so had removed itself.

That aside, there is the wider strategic consideration of removing Turkey from NATO and sending it straight into the arms of Mother Russia. This may be inevitable in any case, but while things are held together for now there is always the chance of a more friendly government emerging in Turkey that resolves the issue.

ambro25

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Mules wrote: »

The way I see it, if people choose to live in France, they should abide by French customs. Same if someone chooses to live in Turkey. An immigrant might not share those customs or values but it's wrong to expect the country to change to accommodate them.

Laïcity is not a French custom, it is French law. Right down to the constitutional bedrock.

This is a very fundamental and, I would argue, wholly irreconcilable, incompatibility with muslim proselytism...and this is why the harder muslim fundamentalists shall push, the harder French society and political system shall push back: muslim, jewish, christian proselytes are all tolerated, to the same extent as each other, no more, no less. And that tolerance is very finite, per the burkah ban of old (e.g. and non-exhaustively) but also the much older christian crosses ban in state schools (again e.g. and non-exhaustively).

France won't change any time soon in that respect.

As for Erdogan...he's a Middle Eastern Trump (but a more dangerous one, in context: Erdogan *has* a plan), so what else to expect?

Snake Plisken

I wonder will this pushback by Macron lead to more islamic terrorist attacks in France? How far will things escalate. It will be interesting to see for other European countries what the outcome be to the hardline taken in France.

ChikiChiki

Imran Khan backing up Erdogan's comments. They are almost dog whistling.

If you do not like European values then stay the **** out.

c.p.w.g.w

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I wonder will this pushback by Macron lead to more islamic terrorist attacks in France? How far will things escalate. It will be interesting to see for other European countries what the outcome be to the hardline taken in France.

If it does, he'll just go harder on Islamic Islamists ...he will go more right leaning with regards Muslim's due to not wanting to lose to LePen

Mr. Karate

Snake Plisken wrote: »

I wonder will this pushback by Macron lead to more islamic terrorist attacks in France?

They'll still carry out attacks if they're determined to do so. The French might as well look like they're willing to fight back.

Mr. Karate

suicide_circus wrote: »

What Macron is defending here are the European ideals whereby we can take the piss out of politicians, prophets and demagogues. The juxtaposition between himself and Erdogan here is apt.

My God. Did Macron's balls finally drop? Will we actually be able to consider him a Man now?

Incel In The Membrane

When you see the mess France is in, it makes you appreciate how evil the EU is for trying to plant muslims in countries like Hungary and Poland.

suicide_circus

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Imran Khan backing up Erdogan's comments.

The pair of them can **** right off

Dyr

Montage of Feck wrote: »

I've a lot of new found respect for Macron, standing upto the fascists and demagogues, makes a change from the now almost ritual process of grovelling apologies and appeasement.

He's making some gestures becuase he has an election in 2022 and LePen is biting his bum. Amazing what voting for evil far right populists can do for a country, eh?

Incel In The Membrane

Where's the antifa crowd? Why aren't they protesting over the Islamic fascists?

Wibbs

Incel In The Membrane wrote: »

Where's the antifa crowd? Why aren't they protesting over the Islamic fascists?

Fear could be one reason. Another might be the cognitive dissonance of being supporters of "liberal" politics which includes cultural relativism and a large pinch of exoticism and "White guilt", so don't feel comfortable pointing out conservative, non liberal, even right wing attitudes in other cultures. IE White European nominally Christian fascists = bad(which is fine), Brown, non European, non Christian fascists = eh... *look at shoes, mumble something about imperialism and diversity, walk off*(not so fine).

That's not all people on the liberal side though. I personally know quite a few who couldn't be more right on progressives if they tried, yet who have a real problem with cultural practices elsewhere and fundamental hardline Islamic stuff would be high on that list. The appalling attitudes and treatment of women in rural India would be another.

But yes, generally and especially among the more vocal and across the media White fascism is far and away the main boogyman.

doublejobbing 2

Snake Plisken wrote: »

As for the swedes they seem to nice for their own good, I won't forget one. Terrorist attack there were the school girl for basically cut in two by some Muslim terrorist attack in Stockholm in 2017. .

Always struck me that we were bombarded with images of the drowned Syrian boy, yet photos of dead children in Barcelona, Manchester, Stockholm never appeared for fear of inciting further public outrage.

Snake Plisken

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Always struck me that we were bombarded with images of the drowned Syrian boy, yet photos of dead children in Barcelona, Manchester, Stockholm never appeared for fear of inciting further public outrage.

That would go against the EU narrative, that child who died was coming from Turkey(a safe country) I seem to recall father was trying to get to Canada, he should have been charged with manslaughter of his child. But it's true they hide the horrors of the attacks on the victims of the massacres you list above.

suicide_circus

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Always struck me that we were bombarded with images of the drowned Syrian boy, yet photos of dead children in Barcelona, Manchester, Stockholm never appeared for fear of inciting further public outrage.

Interesting point

Kivaro

It's funny watching people in some Muslim countries burning effigies of Macron now, and calling for a boycott of French goods. They see it as an attack on Islam when a country's leader has finally reach a tolerance boiling point after a teacher's head was cut off.

This incident should be a turning point for Europe, and steps should be put in place to curb Islamisation and shut down radical Mosques throughout the EU. We should stop rolling over in our acceptance of their archaic belief system and practices.

DelaneyIn

Imagine being taken in by the citizenry of a state as a refugee and then murdering a citizen of that very same state in cold blood and posting his recently severed head on social media over a cartoon.

We have allowed in some amount of trash into Europe.

biko

DelaneyIn wrote: »

We have allowed in some amount of trash into Europe.

Well, these people are still human although they have values that directly contradict ours.

Many politicians and their voters have blood on their hands for actively encouraging this.
I suspect other voters don't know what their politician is doing, they just vote out of habit and/or laziness.
Does everyone in the Social Democrats or Green Party want open borders? Possibly not, but that is what will happen with them in government.

I'm glad Macron is now forced to do something about the problem.

suicide_circus

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54704859

I know i'm unlikely to find many Bangladeshi products or services but if i do, i wont be buying.

Be right back

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54704859

I know i'm unlikely to find many Bangladeshi products or services but if i do, i wont be buying.

When the likes of Pennys open up again..

suicide_circus

Be right back wrote: »

When the likes of Pennys open up again..

Yeah, cheap disposable garments are about the only export i can think of.

Granadino

I saw the protests in Bangladesh. They can f*ck right off. This is the problem for France now. Is "Islam" French culture now? I agree with Macron.

ChikiChiki

Paul Pogba getting heaps of abuse aswell of fellow Islam followers for not condemning Macroms comments.
A fickle bunch it seems.

Granadino

Absolutely we should be allowed to criticise religions. While we know caricatures in Islam is frowned upon, not being allowed to do it in Europe is a big problem.
While I don't agree with doing it to consistently goad people, everything should be open to question.

doublejobbing 2

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Paul Pogba getting heaps of abuse aswell of fellow Islam followers for not condemning Macroms comments.
A fickle bunch it seems.

A white, or even black, footballer, would face blacklisting for saying that BLM was a Marxist movement of workshy wasters who elevate by and large dregs of society who die in confrontation with police to the status of freedom fighters. See how long this take a knee nonsense pre match lasts when large amounts of working class football fans are allowed back in stadia, it will be instantly gotten rid of to avoid the embarrassment of being booed off.

There are elements of left wing Irish society, mostly found living on Twitter, as completely demented as Islamic extremists.

Quantum Erasure

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Always struck me that we were bombarded with images of the drowned Syrian boy, yet photos of dead children in Barcelona, Manchester, Stockholm never appeared for fear of inciting further public outrage.

Just saw this, from the Manchester Arena Inquiry

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580

A security guard had a "bad feeling" about suicide bomber Salman Abedi but did not approach him for fear of being branded a racist, an inquiry has heard.

Kyle Lawler, who was 18 at the time of the Manchester Arena attack, was standing 10 or 15ft away from Abedi.

He later told police he was conflicted because he thought something was wrong but could not put his finger on it.

biko

Seems the animosity between the French and Erdogan continues.



https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201027-charlie-hebdo-sparks-turkish-fury-with-cartoon-of-erdogan

volchitsa

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54704859

I know i'm unlikely to find many Bangladeshi products or services but if i do, i wont be buying.

Oddly perhaps, Bangladesh, along with Turkey, is one of the very few Muslim majority countries which has a strictly secular constitution. The protests are by groups within the country who want to change that. As Erdogan is doing in Turkey.