Terror incident in Paris

screamer

screamer wrote: »

I’m pretty sure there are solutions to this, but it’s a case of self preservation over bleeding hearts, and that is not allowed under EU misguided rules.
It’ll be interesting to see what the UK may do freed from the shackles of the EU, perhaps something, perhaps nothing but that will let us see if a solution is possible or not

I would absolutely be in favour of zero tolerance on illegal immigration and a crackdown on refugee status being given out without thorough background checks.

It wouldn't solve the problem of those who are there now, but countries need to have safe borders. Allowing free roaming, even from within the EU is a disaster and needs to be addressed.

ChikiChiki

screamer wrote: »

There’ll be trouble in France in short unless they do something. Lockdown frustration, combined with anger over these incidents, and they could be in for some very bad times indeed.

Could well spill across borders into Belgium and Germany. A big worry for EU stability.

TomSweeney

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Imagine Christians emigrating to Japan, or claiming asylum in Japan, and then slaughtering Japanese people, beheading them.

Then imagine the Japanese establishment telling it's people that violence is just part and parcel of a multicultural society and that racism and Christianphobia are the real problems.

That's how absurd it is in Western Europe.

Really good point, and can see how nuts it all is when presented like that ...

screamer

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Could well spill across borders into Belgium and Germany. A big worry for EU stability.

Yep and who will they have to blame for that? A good look in the mirror I guess. Glad we’re an island sometimes.....

fly_agaric

minikin wrote: »

Here’s a thought: a complete media blackout on such events.

Their aim is to terrorise the wider public of civilized nations, to incite a demand for an overwhelming response by government... they know that they can do minuscule physical damage in Europe, in real terms. If they can draw military forces into their own back yard they can achieve a lot more damage... which is great for their propaganda purposes.

They use our insatiable consumption of mass media against us... in order to propagate fear, anger and hatred. In much the same way advertising works they even brand their event ‘Allahu akbar’ so that they get maximum message penetration.

So, what about trying this: we switch off the tap on terrorising those who are not immediately impacted by an attack. One person is killed, their family, friends and those who deal with the aftermath of the attack are traumatised. It ends there... there is no media product for the terrorists to benefit from, so less incentive to commit these atrocities.

Burying your head in the sand (censoring) is not going to help.
There's no need for absolute nonsense of "overwhelming responses", let alone "military forces".

IMO what is needed is a far more cautious immigration policy and clamp down on practice of Islam among the muslim communities already in Europe (foreign "Imams", funding + rotten ideology imported from Muslim countries). Over the long haul that should work IMO.

At least citizens + most politicians in Europe seem to be awake to the problems now (hard not to be).

As for it being "minor" and doing "minuscule physical damage", it is not really. It is quite serious. The security services and police in France, UK etc are very well resourced and effective at their jobs & have kept somewhat of a lid on the problem. There would have been more spectactular atrocities by Islamist terrorists only for their efforts. They have not been able to network & organise these things, their plots get disrupted & they get put in prison.

In a free + democratic society where people have the right to privacy they can't do much about murderous people with a knife or a car who are literally "triggered" by they see on the news and angry statements from muslim leaders unfortunately.

emo72

This thread isn't big enough for all the attacks. Just go back 2 pages and see 3 different attacks.

Hotblack Desiato

TomSweeney wrote: »

There is a solution but it's long term, the solution is education and science, kids should have to attend secular schools with early science classes, if kids are given a basis in that, they won't fall for the bull****..

France has a secular school system. Ireland has 96% of primary schools under religious control...

If we don't secularise rapidly, then taxpayer-funded Islamic schools will become commonplace here. And we won't have a leg to stand on because they'll say they are only getting what the RCC and CoI already have.

minikin

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't do that. People need to see the atrocities carried out by people in the name of Islam in order to fight back against it.

I do see your point but sweeping all the horrific attacks under the carpet will only embolden them to carry out worse and worse attacks until you can't ignore them (Twin towers etc).

I dont know what the answer is, but ignoring it is absolutely crazy.

1. ‘People’ don’t need to see things which traumatise and disturb them for what amounts to infotainment. The authorities are well aware what is going on and will do what they can to ‘fight back’.

Constantly bombarding the public with details and images of the latest atrocity leads to demoralization and over-reaction (the rise of the right... look at ukip and Brexit as a case in point: constant media messaging about dirty yurpeens tekkin ur jobz)

2. The 9/11 attacks were all about drawing the USA into a never ending war in the Middle East. They weren’t a result of previous incidents being ‘swept under the carpet’ because they simply weren’t swept under the carpet. Every attack got wall to wall 24/7 coverage... bin ladin recognised the value of this propaganda and saw how it put pressure on the us government to retaliate, prior to 9/11 in a measured fashion, he just turned up the dial and awaited the inevitable invasion.

3. I didn’t suggest ignoring attacks, I suggested not publicising them... let the security services, police and military act in response if necessary... just don’t give the scumbags the oxygen of mass media attention.

screamer

screamer wrote: »

Yep and who will they have to blame for that? .

Trump probably.

minikin

minikin wrote: »

1. ‘People’ don’t need to see things which traumatise and disturb them for what amounts to infotainment. The authorities are well aware what is going on and will do what they can to ‘fight back’.

Constantly bombarding the public with details and images of the latest atrocity leads to demoralization and over-reaction (the rise of the right... look at ukip and Brexit as a case in point: constant media messaging about dirty yurpeens tekkin ur jobz)

2. The 9/11 attacks were all about drawing the USA into a never ending war in the Middle East. They weren’t a result of previous incidents being ‘swept under the carpet’ because they simply weren’t swept under the carpet. Every attack got wall to wall 24/7 coverage... bin ladin recognised the value of this propaganda and saw how it put pressure on the us government to retaliate, prior to 9/11 in a measured fashion, he just turned up the dial and awaited the inevitable invasion.

3. I didn’t suggest ignoring attacks, I suggested not publicising them... let the security services, police and military act in response if necessary... just don’t give the scumbags the oxygen of mass media attention.

1) People need to be informed. An over-reaction only happens when people aren't fully informed.

I agree that graphic images used for exploitation and views shouldn't happen. But if we had one news channel that had no slant, no agenda and just told us hard facts, wouldn't that be amazing? I know, it's a pipedream.

2) I didn't mean that 9/11 happened as a result of ignoring attacks. I just said that if getting attention is the M.O of the Jihadis, then it would lead me to believe that they would go to those lengths again if we ignored casual slaughter of western citizens.

3) Again, I see where you are coming from, but I do not want to be kept in the dark while government officials "deal" with the situation as they see fit. How would you know who to vote for if you didn't know what was going on? The last thing I would want is a government who were given carte blanche to suppress news stories as they saw fit.

Going on past experience, I refuse to give the government the benefit of the doubt that they would do the right thing. The government love a good cover up.

kildare lad

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Imagine Christians emigrating to Japan, or claiming asylum in Japan, and then slaughtering Japanese people, beheading them.

Then imagine the Japanese establishment telling it's people that violence is just part and parcel of a multicultural society and that racism and Christianphobia are the real problems.

That's how absurd it is in Western Europe.

I often wondered how japan is one of the most successful countries in the world and it has zero multiculturalism . I think someone is lying to us about how important a diverse society is , for us to prosper ....

old_aussie

Manach wrote: »

In the context of the ongoing Church burnings and the murder of Father Hamel this implies that France is not the safest location for Catholics.

Look out you infidels.

Nermal

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

France has a secular school system. Ireland has 96% of primary schools under religious control...

If we don't secularise rapidly, then taxpayer-funded Islamic schools will become commonplace here. And we won't have a leg to stand on because they'll say they are only getting what the RCC and CoI already have.

The existence of this very thread shows you that secularism has completely failed as a response to Islamic terrorism.

The solution is not more secularism, it's the suppression of Islam. An abandonment of the social and legal pretense that all religions are equal.

AlphaDelta1

Andrew Neil said it best a few years back and it stands true still. These savages can not win.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2015/nov/20/andrew-neil-islamist-scumbags-isis-paris-video

Amirani

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304

This guy was Prime Minister of Malaysia until March this year. He has 1.3 million followers on Twitter...

TRANQUILLO

The people who shout bigots and hypocrites would contend that if you enjoy the odd bowl of nasi goreng in Dundrum before the cinema then you have to put up with the odd beheading. If we want to be cultured we have to take all the culture.

Sand

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Andrew Neil said it best a few years back and it stands true still. These savages can not win.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2015/nov/20/andrew-neil-islamist-scumbags-isis-paris-video

I dont think it follows that the future belongs to the most civilized. The Franks took over Romanised Gaul because they were more effective at violence, not because they were more civilized.

France, and other European countries, have to examine how they have arrived at this mess. Doing more of the same which caused the problem is not going to now fix it.

TRANQUILLO

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304

This guy was Prime Minister of Malaysia until March this year. He has 1.3 million followers on Twitter...

And yet they delete Milo Yiannoplous and Katie Hopkins twitter accounts. The real proponents of mass murder eh.

AlphaDelta1

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304

This guy was Prime Minister of Malaysia until March this year. He has 1.3 million followers on Twitter...

Yeah yeah, but orange man bad.

TRANQUILLO

Sand wrote: »

I dont think it follows that the future belongs to the most civilized. The Franks took over Romanised Gaul because they were more effective at violence, not because they were more civilized.

France, and other European countries, have to examine how they have arrived at this mess. Doing more of the same which caused the problem is not going to now fix it.

Come on man. Everyone was raping and pillaging "back in the day".

Johnnies and sanitary towels were not easy to get here 30 years ago we were that backward. Everyone has moved on and the world has never been a better place to live. These knuckle draggers are ruining any progress we have made societally.


Just because Napoleon and the vikings were toe rags doesn't mean I deserve to be stabbed on my way to seeing the latest James Bond film.

TRANQUILLO

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Come on man. Everyone was raping and pillaging "back in the day".

Haha... I read that in Joe Biden's voice and it sounded like he was finally addressing Hunter's laptop.

Richard Hillman

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304?s=19

This is what we are dealing with

suicide_circus

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Imagine Christians emigrating to Japan, or claiming asylum in Japan, and then slaughtering Japanese people, beheading them.

Then imagine the Japanese establishment telling it's people that violence is just part and parcel of a multicultural society and that racism and Christianphobia are the real problems.

That's how absurd it is in Western Europe.

Perfect summation

BurnUp78

Imagine cutting off someone's head in the name of a pretend man in the sky.. Absolute nutjob

Nermal

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Andrew Neil said it best a few years back and it stands true still. These savages can not win.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2015/nov/20/andrew-neil-islamist-scumbags-isis-paris-video

Merely saying it is not enough though, is it? Meet action with action. Not words.

AlphaDelta1

BurnUp78 wrote: »

Imagine cutting off someone's head in the name of a pretend man in the sky.. Absolute nutjob

It's the amount of people that see no problem with it that is the huge worry.

cnocbui

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304

This guy was Prime Minister of Malaysia until March this year. He has 1.3 million followers on Twitter...

He has had a burning hatred for all westerners his entire life. He's been at verbal and political war with Australia his entire political life. A very nasty, slimy and bitter character.

Sand

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Everyone has moved on and the world has never been a better place to live. These knuckle draggers are ruining any progress we have made societally.

Even if that is true, it doesn't mean the most civilized win. Which is what Andrew Neil was proposing in his video. People are still in denial about the nature of the problem in France if they think more neoliberalism is the answer.

Gruffalux

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am a bit surprised at how much this one has effected me. It's very upsetting to think of an old lady in a church getting decapitated. Almost the most inoffensive person you could find.

It's very upsetting.

It is, really. It upsets and also causes feelings of anger that have no outlet. Because to question a particular sect's religious-based violence is not permitted. This is a brutal act.


Over many years I have looked at different religions, since I was a teenager. First leaving Catholicism at 16 and going straight towards serious study of Tibetan Buddhism. Over the years then study of other forms of Buddhism, Judaism, Gnosticism, Vedic religion, Neo-Platonism, shamanism, etc. Just a huge fascination that I somehow embraced. My granny was an enquiring lady and inspired me when young with her books from the East.

I know all religions have had violent adherents and histories. Buddhists are not all peaceful. Far from it. Christianity was bloody in its time though an honest appraisal of it will view it as a massively civilising force on the western world. Tom Hollands book Dominion is really interesting in this regard. Etc.

The one religion I have baulked at is Islam. Not the esoteric Sufism which is gorgeous but it almost seems unrelated to mainstream Islam and certainly re the Wahhabi element.
Mainstream Islam as it is now, unreformed, fundamentalist, ever more zealous and extreme, freaks me out. I have lived in majority Muslim areas and there were terrible things worth fearing. There were brilliant, highly cultured, wise people but they were reformists or a la carte Muslims. In its exoteric most common present well-funded form is not compatible with modern civilisation.

It kind of freaks me out that I feel like that about a religion as one of my big things for decades has been finding the common threads in mystical belief systems. And I dont want to be bigoted. I know a belief in an unseen reality is no longer considered acceptable in modern times but there is a lot of fantastic and beautiful material to be pondered through the long human history on this search for the unknown that humankind has shared no matter where they are on the planet. I just have failed to see much beauty in what was revealed to the warlord in Mecca 1400 years ago. It was so particular to his own narcissism and desire for power and vengeance. Nor have I found beauty in the subsequent interpretations and schools. I have Muslim friends and they accept this reticence in me. We talk about it. I just cannot get past the fanatical violence the teachings can inspire.

ChikiChiki

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304

This guy was Prime Minister of Malaysia until March this year. He has 1.3 million followers on Twitter...

Further dog whistling. This is really serious. Absolutely disgusting and needs to be condemned strongly.