Terror incident in Paris

1800_Ladladlad

Virgin Mary statue 'beheaded' in France. Yet another "coincidence"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1357200/france-news-virgin-mary-statue-beheaded-terror-alert-emmanuel-macron

biko

Scoondal wrote: »

France ... the Republic is based on Fraternite. That is something that the Irish Republic does not recognise.

Do you think immigrants in France today think of the natives as their brethren?

actuallylike

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Virgin Mary statue 'beheaded' in France. Yet another "coincidence"

Images released of suspect

Granadino

I agree with previous poster about the issue of immigrants coming to France and criticising society telling the “natives” what they can and can’t say.
At this stage a certain percentage of French “natives” are Muslim. Do you accommodate some of their issues or tell them to get f*cked.
I would be inclined to tell them to get fahkt

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

All Muslims in Australia and France are the same ?

Yes, all Muslims follow the Quran and Mohammad wherever they are in the world. Only differences are which of the two main versions of Islam they follow. Sunni or Shia.

biko

Almost 60 percent of Muslims in France think Sharia supercede French law.



https://www.ifop.com/publication/le-rapport-a-la-laicite-a-lheure-de-la-lutte-contre-lislamisme-et-le-projet-de-loi-contre-les-separatismes/

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, all Muslims follow the Quran and Mohammad wherever they are in the world. Only differences are which of the two main versions of Islam they follow. Sunni or Shia.

Whatever you say.

Gervais08

biko wrote: »

Almost 60 percent of Muslims in France think Sharia supercede French law.



https://www.ifop.com/publication/le-rapport-a-la-laicite-a-lheure-de-la-lutte-contre-lislamisme-et-le-projet-de-loi-contre-les-separatismes/

And every last one should be kicked out.

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

Whatever you say.

Its not what I say..it's a fact. Do a little bit of research on Islam and see what you come up with..

Danzy

biko wrote: »

Almost 60 percent of Muslims in France think Sharia supercede French law.



https://www.ifop.com/publication/le-rapport-a-la-laicite-a-lheure-de-la-lutte-contre-lislamisme-et-le-projet-de-loi-contre-les-separatismes/

France is in serious trouble and the level of threat isn't fully appreciated.

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

Its not what I say..it's a fact. Do a little bit of research on Islam and see what you come up with..

How many do you know?

cnocbui

Granadino wrote: »

How many do you know?

0.65% They never managed to find all the pieces.

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

How many do you know?

I might ask you the same question, and judging by your lack of knowledge when it comes to Islam. I'd say not many....and definitely not near as many as I know.

Snake Plisken

See new Mosque going to be built between Clondalkin and Lucan. Local councillors like Paul Gogarty and the pbp dope approved it, springing up all over the country now, seems the idiots running the country can't see the issues that happen in the UK France Sweden etc. I think it's to late here.

Gervais08

Snake Plisken wrote: »

See new Mosque going to be built between Clondalkin and Lucan Local dopes like Paul Gogarty and the pbp dope approved it, springing up all over the country now, seems the idiots running the country can't see the issues that happen in the UK France Sweden etc. I think it's to late here.

We won’t recognize Ireland in a couple of decades.

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

I might ask you the same question, and judging by your lack of knowledge when it comes to Islam. I'd say not many....and definitely not near as many as I know.

Wrong. Where I’m living there are quite a few and recently I visited a mosque here so no I won’t brand them all...

Granadino

Gervais08 wrote: »

We won’t recognize Ireland in a couple of decades.

Oh please ....

kildare lad

Snake Plisken wrote: »

See new Mosque going to be built between Clondalkin and Lucan Local dopes like Paul Gogarty and the pbp dope approved it, springing up all over the country now, seems the idiots running the country can't see the issues that happen in the UK France Sweden etc. I think it's to late here.

Universities of terrorism they are . It's gas , most of Europes finally got away from the shackles of organised religion and here we are bringing in religious fundamentalists to bring us right back to stone age .

85603

biko wrote: »

Almost 60 percent of Muslims in France think Sharia supercede French law.



https://www.ifop.com/publication/le-rapport-a-la-laicite-a-lheure-de-la-lutte-contre-lislamisme-et-le-projet-de-loi-contre-les-separatismes/

Its this kind of thing thats right at the core of the problem with allowing Muslims into a country, as opposed to other cultures and religions.

The book supercedes all. So your country will have to just get out of the way.

ps can we come in?

(if not then you're racist so there, yeah)

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

Wrong. Where I’m living there are quite a few and recently I visited a mosque here so no I won’t brand them all...

Do you mean here in Ireland/ or abroad ???? Because there is quite a difference, depending on where you know them from. I'm not branding them all as murderous isis or taliban types either, but the location and circumstances can play a very big part in your Islamic experience.

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

Do you mean here in Ireland/ or abroad ???? Because there is quite a difference, depending on where you know them from. I'm not branding them all as murderous isis or taliban types either, but the location and circumstances can play a very big part in your Islamic experience.

I’m abroad. I think some countries are worse than others. I wouldn’t have much issues with Kurdish folk for example but I agree with a previous poster. France and other countries should lay down the rules in public. This is how we live etc.., Lump it or like it...

Gervais08

Granadino wrote: »

Oh please ....

Watch you down choke with your head buried so far in that sand

Ash.J.Williams

GT89 wrote: »

Mainstream media not reporting on this much there's a surprise

Google the ****ing thing

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

I’m abroad. I think some countries are worse than others. I wouldn’t have much issues with Kurdish folk for example but I agree with a previous poster. France and other countries should lay down the rules in public. This is how we live etc.., Lump it or like it...

Have you actually lived in Kurdish area's? ( if you don't mind my asking? } And i agree 100 percent that they should either integrate completely or leave to Countrys more suited to their beliefs and culture.

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

Have you actually lived in Kurdish area's? ( if you don't mind my asking? } And i agree 100 percent that they should either integrate completely or leave to Countrys more suited to their beliefs and culture.

Kurds the only ones who put it up to IS. For that alone I’d give them sanctuary

jmreire

Granadino wrote: »

Kurds the only ones who put it up to IS. For that alone I’d give them sanctuary

Yes when the Kurds backs were up against the wall, they fought back, and were responsible for recovering a large amount of territory from isis. And then Trump stopped supporting them leaving the way open for Turkey to push them out of the territory they had hoped to use as the new Kurdistan, something Erdogan did not want, so now it is as it is. But they were some fighters..and always were historically. You cannot help but feel admiration and sympathy for them. I know what they are like, because I've spent a lot of time in that part of the world too

Granadino

Granadino wrote: »

Wrong. Where I’m living there are quite a few and recently I visited a mosque here so no I won’t brand them all...

Okay. I'll bite. I've known many Muslims while living in Asia, and I've traveled through the M.East, staying with Muslim families rather than in hotels.

The problem with the argument about branding all Muslims the same is that it applies western principles of individualism to peoples who typically don't hold to individualistic tenants. Throughout the M.East, the cultures encourage a group think with extreme social pressure on others to conform to the accepted local (or national) culture. This extends even moreso to the religion, Islam, which is very much a community based religion, which, again, encourages a group think.

Now, while the various priesthoods/leaders/etc do hold some influence and real power within Islam, it is the social/group consciousness that is the real power, because it encourages your neighbors, and fellow worshipers to watch over each other, and inform on those who break the accepted rules.

The issue with many western perspectives regarding Muslims and Islam, is that they believe that they can separate the culture and the religion, reflecting the way it is for mainstream western religious groups (obviously groups like the Amish are completely discounted). However, Islam isn't a western religion, nor has it been influenced by western philosophy or the advances in society over the last few centuries. Instead, Islam has stayed within bastions of it's faith in the M.East, Africa and India, and while it has spread somewhat beyond these areas, the followers of the religion, have mostly stayed unchanged from the time of Muhammad's death, and the subsequent power struggles over the true faith.

The issue here is that there is no real distinction between Islam and culture because it's so intertwined that it would be next to impossible to say where one starts and where it ends. And since there is such a culture of group association, the group itself serves as a conservative force to stop any modernization of the faith, except with extremely small breakaway pockets (and there have been some. Not many, but some.)

Main part:

Individuals or small groups of Muslims living in Europe can behave as they like, and not need to follow the traditional aspects of Islamic living standards.. because there is no substantial group to apply peer pressure to them. Beyond heading to prayer on various days, their lifestyles are separated from the others in a city, due to distance and circumstances. However, and this is important, as numbers increase in a localised area, there will be greater pressure to conform to the more traditional aspects of the religion. It's basic human nature when it comes to group, or mob behavior. Those with the weakest wills are swept up by those with the stronger belief, and when you base your lives, on the strength of your faith, that puts you under the thumb of those with obviously strong beliefs.

I have Muslim friends, and colleagues. Individually, they're beautiful people. Amazingly gentle, and generally, very polite. However, when put together with those of the same faith, there is a shift in their behavior and speech. I've seen it happen.

There has been a shift within the Muslim world over the last few decades. It's been gradually moving back towards the more fundamental aspects of the religion, seeking to remove the weaknesses of what they perceive as corrupting influences. Past immigration into Europe of Muslims was different because there wasn't that shift happening.. the Muslim world was fragmented along national lines, however, over the last few decades, there has been a shift in thinking away from nationality, and an embracing of unity through religion.

I've been to dozens of mosques over the years. I've played with Muslim children, taught them English, and eaten dinner with many, who I would consider to be wonderful people. But. I've noticed a shift in behavior and beliefs over the last 5-6 years, and it's something that has affected my friendships, with them only hanging out with other Muslims, while cutting off connections with non-Muslims (not just me, but others too).

So, yeah... there is a case to be wary about Islam, and where Muslims fit into European populations. There's a greater case to be wary about the drive to apply change to European cultures to make Muslims more comfortable in Europe (since integration isn't really being sought). And lastly. considering the violence, and the swing of opinions (look at all the various polls), we should be very careful about allowing more Muslims into Europe. Figure out how to deal with the population we currently have, and also determine whether they are a risk... because if the people who have lived within our borders for decades are a risk.. then.. yeah.

One of my issues is the rise of Islamophobia, and the aversion to ask the hard questions. Part of that, is the fear of officials to investigate Muslims in Europe, for fear of being labelled, this or that.. I think the protection of Europeans has a higher value.

jmreire

At the end of the day...you can take the Muslim from the Islamic Country, but never take the Islam from the Muslim. When push comes to shove, and he / she has to make a decision, it will be made in accordance with the Quran and Sharia law. I've spent several years working in Islamic Countries, and have had pretty much the same experience as Klaz,,, great people to work with, and definitely not like the rabid isis / taliban extremist they are often portrayed as. Yet, when Macron came out strongly against "islam extremism" after the teacher was beheaded, it was met with a massive backlash from Muslims world wide,,,Ban French products, kill French people, they deserve it , stop the islamophobia etc. etc. And then I saw some comments on the net made by friends of mine,,,,and they were in full agreement with the rabid anti- french sentiment. And not one iota of discussion or sympathy about the innocent victims. And thats the way it is.

Granadino

jmreire wrote: »

At the end of the day...you can take the Muslim from the Islamic Country, but never take the Islam from the Muslim. When push comes to shove, and he / she has to make a decision, it will be made in accordance with the Quran and Sharia law. I've spent several years working in Islamic Countries, and have had pretty much the same experience as Klaz,,, great people to work with, and definitely not like the rabid isis / taliban extremist they are often portrayed as. Yet, when Macron came out strongly against "islam extremism" after the teacher was beheaded, it was met with a massive backlash from Muslims world wide,,,Ban French products, kill French people, they deserve it , stop the islamophobia etc. etc. And then I saw some comments on the net made by friends of mine,,,,and they were in full agreement with the rabid anti- french sentiment. And not one iota of discussion or sympathy about the innocent victims. And thats the way it is.

French govt, and the EU as a whole need to double down on being secular societies etc. On the same note, it's still an offence to blaspheme or slag off the king in Spain, where violence against women is also still an issue, so we should clean up our own houses while we are at it.

Granadino

Granadino wrote: »

French govt, and the EU as a whole need to double down on being secular societies etc. On the same note, it's still an offence to blaspheme or slag off the king in Spain, where violence against women is also still an issue, so we should clean up our own houses while we are at it.

Violence against women is always going to be an issue, and we have constant movement towards seeking to downplay it's acceptance within all western societies. It's not a major issue to be concerned about because the mechanisms are already in place to deal with it. Should women wish to avail of those protections, or seek to protect themselves in an appropriate manner.

But yes, the focus should be on dealing with the problems within our own society, before bringing in more people who carry their own baggage, and cultures which are opposites of what we want from our own society.