New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072471#Comment_118072471

Do you disagree with the Seuss estate controlling Dr. Seuss works?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072471#Comment_118072471

I'm not convinced this is a burning issue or for people to lose sleep over. For example, depictions of race relations or sexuality or whatever from historical novels are always going to be somewhat problematic in these more 'enlightened' times. Even many TV programmes from around 40 years ago would struggle to make it to air today. But I don't find that particularly surprising, nor the fact that a 'cancel culture' exists : perhaps quite a few things we find acceptable to say or depict in public in 2021 might be offensive to future generations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072565#Comment_118072565

I'm not sure that makes a difference.

Take Oxfam, for example. They decided to ban a bingo game because a minority of trans employees complained that there was no representation of non-binary or trans people in the women's game. This was a bingo game who, instead of numbers, used inspirational women instead.

So here is an example where Oxfam have made a decision based on likely business repercussions.

Dr. Seuss have done precisely the same thing.

It's not that both businesses made a decision, as that they did. But that these decisions were only made because of the intimidation pressed upon them by a minority of extremists set on forcing their version of an ideology upon everyone else.

breezy1985

WeIl if they were pressured into it then surely it is the right of those people who pressured them into holding those pressurizing views.

Do you not defend the right of those pressure groups to hold those views ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072613#Comment_118072613

They absolutely have the right to force their views upon everyone else.

What's disappointing is that, in most other cases, businesses would not bend the knee in some defensive, terrified manner. They would normally argue that, "...well, if this book is not right for you, then perhaps don't read it". Don't try to force everyone else not to read the book etc.

Now, the same businesses capitulate - knowing full well the abuse and bullying they'll receive for having the temerity of saying the same thing to these very extremist groups.

It's ideological bullying.

But yes, this kind of specialist bullying is within the remit of freedom of speech. That's the shame.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072647#Comment_118072647

So by your own statement you think full freedom of speech is a shame.

You would also be against a man exercising his freedom of speech by taking the knee. Maybe even getting sacked from a "news" channel for it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072663#Comment_118072663

If freedom of speech is strategically manipulated to bully, abuse, censor, and force your ideology upon the other - then yes.

Freedom of speech is not a religion. There are some downsides, which must be tolerated.

This is one such example.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072679#Comment_118072679

So when Anne Widdecombe uses freedom of speech to bully or abuse this is wrong ?

You can't defend freedom of speech that is homophobic and then cry and whinge about freedom of speech calling for an end to homophobia.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072707#Comment_118072707

In your view, her freedom of expression to state that marriage should be between one man and one woman is abusive and wrong.

In my view, it's not abusive and wrong (even though I disagree with her).

That's precisely why I say that this must be tolerated; it's part of freedom of speech. I wouldn't want to censor the gender extremists any more than I'd want to censor Anne Widdecombe.

My position is transparently consistent, for good or bad.

Speaking of Jim Davidson, Nigel Farage has just replied to a rare question from the ordinary working public.

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1452755506548903937

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072711#Comment_118072711

No it's not consistent.

Widdecombes comments you call "views" but the "extremist creatures" you call it "bullying"

And if a young black man wants to complain about the government you commit libel on this site to discredit him by calling him a thief for giving to charity with no evidence whatsoever. On top of that you compared him to a paedophile which you have never come close to doing for anyone whos racist or homophobic views you support

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070798#Comment_118070798

Well, the bar was set by yourself and others.

If one can claim that say Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffen are the same as say Ann Widdecombe and [insert right-winger bogeyman here] then surely one can also make the argument that Jeremy Corbyn is the same as David Irving. After all, wasn't Jeremy Corbyn given a suspension from the Labour Party due to anti-semitism?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072721#Comment_118072721

Probably got confused and thought Jim Davidson was a member of that IRA crowd he is a supporter of 😂

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072738#Comment_118072738

Well done for completely getting the point I was making.

If Eskimo was honest he would just come out and say he hates people of certain views like I and others did I would have respect for him but he has since the start of this thread claimed to be such a perfect little angel to the other side despite a ton of his own words which would point to the contrary

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072762#Comment_118072762

This isn't about the poster Eskimo... this is about making false equivalences and forgetting nuance and context when it's convenient but defending nuance and context when you want.

So, in the battle rules that have been drawn up by yourself, David Irving and Jeremy Corbyn are equally anti-semites.

Fair is fair, no?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072831#Comment_118072831

The false equivalences have been going on for a long time. I was just using them to point out the absurdities of Eskimos own posts which have been going on for months

As for yours show me quotes or books where Corbyn displays antisemitism. Even show me in the reports where it says he is one.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072959#Comment_118072959

Ah you want context and naunce now.....that is not the battle rules you have drawn up. Not nice is it?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54730425

The human rights watchdog found Labour responsible for "unlawful" harassment and discrimination during Mr Corbyn's four-and-a-half years as leader.

Jeremy Corbyn apparently knows more about human rights than the EHRC.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072586#Comment_118072586

No, they didn't.

The Bingo game had referred to Elliot Page as Ellen Page, because some of the people involved weren't aware they had transitioned. When this was brought to their attention, Oxfam decided to pull the game altogether rather than have the manufacturer update it, simply because it was a small bingo game and wasn't worth the time and effort.

They made that choice themselves, just like with the Dr.Seuss books. They're not being cancelled. This was all done internally with no public pressure or campaigning. A company made a decision based on what they felt was the right thing to do. Do you oppose that?

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1452703615538417666?t=TswFRy928Wn9d_pTehdoQQ&s=19

You are, as per usual, misrepresenting facts.

ancapailldorcha

So, what the right call cancel culture is just a group of particularly sad people unable to countenance either being disagreed with, change in general or being held accountable. They're so triggered by these things that they've become entirely dishonest and require their own special little safe space in the form of tabloids and GB News where they know they won't have to think about anything they're told.

How sad.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073212#Comment_118073212

Don't forget this is all formed from a bedrock of "young people are weird and scary" that comes with each ageing generation; especially those calcified from a life of bitterness and misanthropy. So resentful that the young might have it "easier", so intellectually incurious they'd rather attack than engage or try to understand. Or, indeed, just stay out of the way.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073276#Comment_118073276

Previously, such people tended to die off earlier so change happened naturally but thanks to medical science, we get to keep such high calibre deep thinkers like David Starkey and Jim Davidson for a bit longer. Now, we're stuck in this culture war because these intellectual titans' are reminded of their small genitals whenever someone suggests change to improve the world.

Weird thing is, a (slightly overweight) ageing, consistency-loving white man like myself is basically the Tory's party's key demographic. They should have been courting my vote at this point. I should have a place of my own and have a stake in the status quo. Instead, I have to make do with headlines demonising people the poorly endowed despise and the country getting ever so slightly less democratic by the day.

pauldla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073276#Comment_118073276

Indeed. Twas ever thus...

https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073392#Comment_118073392

Not to mention this Twitter account which posts records of "cancel culture" in comedy as it has occurred for more than 100 years. It just never had a snappy Internet title before.

https://twitter.com/ClassicShowbiz?t=b65txXKW2-4DS4j1wgGE4w&s=09

https://twitter.com/ClassicShowbiz/status/1452408730973212673?t=ilmiTxeOktsrhlgGUVHLsQ&s=19

It posts clips from newspapers of people saying how you can't say this that and the other any more, and it'll be the death of comedy. Some of the newspapers are 100+ years old, and feature a young Jim Davidson and Roy Slender Brown.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073038#Comment_118073038

For sure; they only want nuance and context when it suits their narrative.

Imagine if a right-wing conservative figure were culpable in the same way that Corbyn was deemed to be. Instead of Corbyn and the Labour Party, let's replace those terms with the following (as taken from the link in the quote above):

It found the Conservative Party was responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act:

Political interference in racist complaints concerning black people

Failure to provide adequate training to those handling racist complaints

Harassment, including the use of racist tropes and suggesting that complaints of racism were fake or smears

The EHRC found evidence of 23 instances of "inappropriate involvement" by Mr Johnson's office.

If this were the case, the weight of this thread would condemn Boris Johnson (or any other Tory Premier) in the most excoriating language. There'd be shouts from the pulpit that Johnson has to go, that he should never be a public representative, and that he acts as a beacon for racism.

But when the same rules are applied to Jeremy Corbyn - nothing, not a word.

We all know why. We don't even need to scratch the surface to work that one out.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073721#Comment_118073721

Corbyn is a tosser, made me very happy when he was ousted as leader if the Labour Party. Never liked the man, never will.

See, it's easy to criticise, you should try it with Farage sometime or bumbling Boris.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073730#Comment_118073730

Earlier on this thread, you argued that many of your positions are more centre-right.

So, it doesn't surprise me that you've taken such a view.

And this isn't about Corbyn simply being a "tosser" that you don't really like; it's about the more serious crime of racism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073721#Comment_118073721

Hey, any reason why your dodging the fact that there was no public pressure against Oxfam and it was an internal decision? This is yet another case of you making a false claim..

.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073813#Comment_118073813

Let's not gloss over left-wing racism, for now.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073835#Comment_118073835

lets go back over your most recent lies before we move on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073846#Comment_118073846

I wonder if Jeremy Corbyn will now be classified in the same category as Anne Widdecombe and David Starkey?

They're all just a bunch of racists, after all, right!?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073862#Comment_118073862

Why do you think this is the Jeremy Corbyn Fan Club? I thought generally he was a good Labour leader, but he absolutely failed at dealing with antisemitism in the party and with his own comments and actions on the matter. He was rightfully taken to task for them, and his failure to deal with those issues played a part in him losing his leadership and the party losing the election.

Do you see many here trotting out the lines you normally do, such as "No well what he actually meant was...", "They later clarified to mean....", "That's just their religion so...." etc.

So, care to address the falsehood you posted regarding the Oxfam Bingo situation?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073862#Comment_118073862

no, we are discussing your most recent lies. we can get on to corbyn after that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073891#Comment_118073891

A very carefully worded rebuke; though I did notice that, at no point at all, did you refer to Corbyn as having committed racism or leading a party suffused with racism (at least at the time).

And second to that, are you willing to file Jeremy Corbyn under the same umbrella as David Starkey and Anne Widdecombe (who you have referred to as racists).

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073862#Comment_118073862

You're ether debating in bad faith or are incapable of understanding the concept of a false dichotomy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073835#Comment_118073835

Okay, so we're just gonna conclude you actively misrepresented either by way of dishonesty or ignorance...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073928#Comment_118073928

Racism is racism.

There's no false dichotomy at all.

What we are seeing is a deliberate evasion of the question of Jeremy Corbyn engaging in racism.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074017#Comment_118074017

Yes there is. You're pretending that everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of rabid, antisemitic Corbynista. It's a pathetic strawman. I don't pretend that you're a follower of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon so it'd be nice to get the same courtesy in return.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074037#Comment_118074037

I'm not suggesting you're a Corbynista or anti-Semitic.

I am simply asking a very basic question: do you think Jeremy Corbyn is a racist?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074047#Comment_118074047

can you tell us why you posted lies about cancel culture?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071831#Comment_118071831

He certainly wasn't up to Hume's level of consumption.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074047#Comment_118074047

I don't think Corbyn is a racist. I think in his support for Palestine, he has gone overboard and shared stages/platforms with anti-semites, and he showed an unwillingness to properly deal with antisemitism in the party and tried to wave away his own failures in that regard. But no, I don't think he views Jewish people as being any lesser than anyone else, and his criticisms seem to stem from the actions of the Israel state and army.

Regardless, you're attempting to drag this down a rabbit hole, as per usual, because you know you have no answers to the questions regarding the falsehoods you posted about the Oxfam bingo situation. You've completely ignored it in every post since. And you'll likely now take my "I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is a racist" and post a spiel about comments he's made, rather than say you were wrong about the Oxfam Bingo thing.

But here's the key thing; I'm willing to change my mind on Corbyn. I don't know the full history of his actions and comments, and if they are pointed out I'm willing to reassess my opinion. You have shown no willingness to do the same to those you appear to support.

So I ask again, do you admit you were wrong about why the Oxfam Bingo thing was pulled?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074047#Comment_118074047

No idea. I stopped paying any and all attention to him after his pitiful performance as Labour leader thankfully came to an end. It's not really relevant to this thread and you've posted far too much fake news for me to take your word on the matter as a reliable source.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072053#Comment_118072053

LOL "...beyond the pale"

Here you dropped these.

Into the bargain you've blissfully missed the salient point within the Mills quotation. Colour me unsurprised.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073744#Comment_118073744

But you then defend racism when it suits you. I've no issue declaring Corbyn a racist, will you declare Farage a racist?

care to address the falsehood you posted regarding the Oxfam Bingo situation?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074296#Comment_118074296

So racism is only bad when it's "creatures of the left". Perfectly fine, desirable even when it's the bridge dwellers that star on GB News. I'm finding common sense conservatism quite hard to comprehend.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074382#Comment_118074382

He has gone to the ends of reason to make excuses for every racist Farage has had on the show so far but would never say a bad word about a single one of them.

At a 2013 event about the Palestinians, Jeremy Corbyn said (referring to Jewish opponents) the following: "...they don't want to study history and secondly having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don't understand English irony either".

Now re-read that very same quote in David Starkey's voice, perhaps talking about black Britons.

That is a clear example of racism - far, far worse than Starkey's misspeaking.

The point is this: that once a conservative says anything remotely contentious, he/she is disregarded as an intolerable racist that should not have any sort of platform. When it's a creature of the Left, we see a very different reaction: defence, ambiguity, whataboutery, and obscurantism.

The same people who go after Starkey dare not go after Corbyn, for example. It's hypocrisy of the highest order. Cancel culture and woke is all about a certain kind of political worldview that must be silenced. As we have seen with the left, they daren't get targeted - even in clear cases of anti-Semitic racism.

That's the point, and it's a very powerful point indeed.

As for the accusation that Farage is a racist, well, we've discussed this ad nauseum before and came to the conclusion there wasn't a single conclusive example of racism whatsoever - nothing compared to the likes of what Corbyn said above. Re-read the quote in Farage's voice too, this time referring to immigrant populations from Europe.

As for Oxfam, let's see what they themselves have said regarding the matter:

We took the decision to remove the game from sale following concerns raised by trans and non-binary colleagues who told us that it didn't live up to our commitment to respect people of all genders.

Oxfam clearly felt under pressure, and acted accordingly.

Second, it's true that Eliot Page's former name was listed. But the real reason for the angst was because JK Rowling was also included in the bingo game - who is now considered a permanent heretic due to her views on women's rights.

Yes, this is about the woke mob, it is about cancel culture, and Oxfam buckled under the pressure and decided this wasn't an issue they wanted to spend any more time on.

Quin_Dub

Sorry to keep doing this , but another reminder about how insignificant GBNews really is.

So - Losing about 3% of viewers each week from their rolling 4 week total - Which actually means that their real weekly loss is quite a bit larger than that.

Big old drop last week (6%) which isn't great as TV numbers should be increasing into the Autumn.

To put that in context - Here are some of the other channels with similar levels of Viewership for the most recent week -

Forces TV - 1737

London Live - 2136

Together TV - 2376

Trace Vault - 1609

NOW 70's - 1643

Magic TV - 1916

Nick Jr 2 - 2379

Tiny Pop - 1964

And as one final reference point (well 2) - BBC News had 11,962 and Sky News had 7583 with both growing week over week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074617#Comment_118074617

54,000,000 YouTube hits; millions of TikTok views and Twitter views etc.

Even if the actual TV viewership is at the levels you've given, that doesn't detract from the enormous influence it is having on social media (irrespective of whether this was the initial goal or not).

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074645#Comment_118074645

Ah - We're back to the "But YouTube" Defence.

IT'S A TV STATION and No one is watching.

Right now on YouTube there are 115 people watching the live feed... One Hundred and fifteen....

"Enormous Influence on Social Media" - In whos world are they having this impact?

Because outside of the tiny number of people that actually watch their stuff , it's utterly non existent and irrelevant.