New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

ancapailldorcha

The vast, vast majority of people have his back but he failed to get elected to the House of Commons seven times in some of the most xenophobic parts of this country. Right.

extra gravy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645905#Comment_117645905

Let's not forget he was once beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin. But the voters "have his back". Lol.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645823#Comment_117645823

Don't seek false comfort in consensus.

Whilst there may be a veritable orgy of agreement on this thread, that's all it is - and nothing more.

GB News will thrive in the coming weeks and months, of that I have no doubt. And it don't require those present to agree with me to sustain my conclusion, who you refer to as "...the rest of us".

To quote Orwell's 1984:

Perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one. At one time it had been a sign of madness to believe that the earth goes round the sun; today, to believe that the past is inalterable. He might be alone in holding that belief, and if alone, then a lunatic. But the thought of being a lunatic did not greatly trouble him.

ancapailldorcha

And yet again you lay out no argument for how GB News might become successful when all of the facts suggest otherwise.

ohnonotgmail

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645928#Comment_117645928

Hey, that dolphin had a great manifesto. "Free Fish Fridays" was a real vote winner

Joe_ Public

What even does "success" mean in this context? By what or whose measure will GB News be deemed to be "thriving"? Is it going to match rival networks for viewers, demonstrably change the media landscape in a meaningful way, start setting the agenda as opposed to simply being a source of mirth and amusement?

Some will no doubt consider mere survival as a success, but even that only depends on the continuation of major donors pumping funds into it. Once they loseinterest or patience, it's effectively doomed.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645942#Comment_117645942

This isn't an academic discussion where you create arguments and syllogisms in defence of a position.

I'm basing my belief on statistics in the first few weeks.

I believe that, based on almost 4 million viewers in its first month, in a rapidly growing social media family of accounts, through their excellent app, and through finding their feet with the new station - coupled with new shows and presenters, including Farage, that it will take some months to become a successful TV station.

I think the fool is the person who takes a performance in the first few weeks and translates that out into eternity. With that kind of cynicism, no business of any kind would ever establish itself. It takes time and, given the gestation figures thus far, I'm reliably confident that in 6-months from now, we will see the creature in full flourish, as it was intended. Clearly, nobody here has began a business from scratch. I have, and when you do - you'll consider matters differently.

Of course, I could be wrong. But let's wait and see.

And to those condemning the channel to oblivion, you should actively want the channel to succeed - if only to provide some semblance of diversity of political opinion. By hoping it fails (from the outset, and now throughout), it demonstrates a deep insecurity on your side. It's almost as if you do not want the opposing side to have a voice. So, silence it - hope it fails and mock its attempt to make the mainstream.

Again, this demonstrates a profound political insecurity.

ancapailldorcha

The best indicator of future performance is current performance and that's a shambles. You can trot out likes or whatever all you want but the bills need to be paid. If you actually have run a business, you'd show some sort of recognition of that instead of the constant cheerleading.

The "opposing side" controls almost the entire media space. The conservative victim fantasy is ridiculous. I don't care if GBeebies succeeds or fails. I'm just baffled that they adopted a failed business model for a glorified Youtube channel. Any business person knows that expenses need to be kept down and that you have to get what you pay for. The gaffes, the cancellation of anyone guilty or wrongthink and the stepping down of the one legitimate broadcaster they had do not bode well.

hirondelle

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645929#Comment_117645929

I'm beginning to think this a parody account. The "orgy" of consensus is about a dozen people who don't like GB News and what it represents versus you in the role of No.1 Fanboy and "don't forget the Youtube" additions of Mic 1972. For you to now start throwing quotes from 1984 as some sort of bolster to your fandom is simply cringe-inducing. You are now at the point of bigging up Farage for getting in a boat so he do an "investigation" into the migrants coming across the channel demonstrates your inability to understand you are simply a nodding dog to populist nonsense. The fact that alarm bells didn't ring for you when Neil announced the "Woke Watch" nightly segment says it all. Two Minute Hate anyone?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645845#Comment_117645845

If the "vast majority" of brexit voters " have his back" (what's that supposed to mean?) Then how come he has no seat in Parliament? Why did his pro brexit party win zero seats in the general election?

Pro Brexit voters over 15 million

Pro Brexit MP's 0

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646062#Comment_117646062

That's precisely my point, that this thread is overwhelmingly in favour of GB News failing. You can disagree with the colourful language I used, but ultimately we are agreeing on the same thing.

Perhaps everyone here will be right - that the channel will be gone by 1 September and this thread shortly closed thereafter.

Fine, believe that if you wish.

But I just do not believe that will happen.

breezy1985

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645928#Comment_117645928

Maybe the dolphin really really hated immigrants and stole Farages votes

Tony EH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645845#Comment_117645845

Disagree all you wish, but you're still wrong. Nigel Farage and the people who voted for Brexit are not one single entity and will never be, no matter how much you try and push that idea. It's merely a fantasy that resides in your head.

The fact of the matter is there were a wide range of people who voted to leave. There were plenty of Tories who voted for Brexit and there were Lib Dems and Labour voters too, many of whom would have no time for Nigel and his grandstanding bollocks.

None of what you're written above can combat that.

Quin_Dub

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646106#Comment_117646106

I don't think that there are many that are actively "in favour of it failing" , but most here understand that on balance it is likely to fail.

Launching ANY new TV channel is massively expensive and very hard to do. Launching a "News" channel even more so.

The general head-winds of reality are against GB News being successful.

It is almost certain to never be profitable. Not because of its specific political leanings or its content , but because News Channels are almost never profitable anywhere.

A stand-alone News channel is a vanity project, no more no less - No matter what the content it.

So - bottom line , GB News will last only as long as the financial backers are willing to subsidise it.

Those are the absolute undeniable facts.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646294#Comment_117646294

I'm not foolish enough to argue that all Brexit voters have a favourable vision of Nigel Farage.

What I would claim is that the vast majority would have a favourable vision of him.

If it weren't for Farage, there wouldn't have even been an EU Referendum.

It stands to reason that the vast majority will credit him for this development.

Tony EH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646586#Comment_117646586

You tried to accuse a poster of saying that the 52% of people who voted for Brexit were low IQ. Not only that you also tried to claim that it was somehow "racist".

Do you even remember what this was about? Or are you too busy trying to shift the goalposts.

As for your continued shilling for Farage, he had a part to play for pushing Brexit (even though he, like all Brexiteers had fuck plans in the event it actually went through leading to the absolute chaos of today). However, it was the Tories who brokered the referendum because Dave who buckled under pressure from his back benchers.

It wasn't Nigel. 😉

If there's anyone to "congratulate" for this mess, it's David Cameron.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646768#Comment_117646768

If it wasn't for Nigel hoovering up Tory votes, Cameron would have never buckled under the book form his own backbenchers.

It was the electoral hemorrhage inflicted by UKIP that ultimately turned the screw.

Backbenchers have been banging on about Europe since the late 80s. Nothing changed, except for when Farage came along and became a direct electoral threat to David Cameron.

That, coupled with the backbench threat you cite, is a much more accurate interpretation of the history.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646975#Comment_117646975

"Hoovering up votes" and "A direct electoral threat"

Remind us again, how many members of the Brexit party are MP's?

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647056#Comment_117647056

We are talking pre-June 2016.

At that time, UKIP did indeed hemorrhage votes from the Tory Party.

Tony EH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646975#Comment_117646975

UKIP formed a mild and temporary threat to both the Cons and Labour, but nothing truly substantial. They "haemorrhaged" their own support shortly after. Farage later tried to claim that UKIP did so much damage to Labour that he helped the Conservatives gain victory. In fact, Farage said “There wouldn’t have been a Conservative majority if it hadn’t been for the effect of the UKIP vote.”

In any case, absolutely NONE of this rabbit hole can deflect from the fact that the claims you made about 52% - low IQ and racism were completely false.

ancapailldorcha

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647098#Comment_117647098

Did it? Farage used to boast about taking votes from Labour?

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647187#Comment_117647187

Farage noted how a significant slice of the Old Labour vote transferred to UKIP.

That's undoubtedly true - and was replicated in the last General Election.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647186#Comment_117647186

You clearly are unaware of the history.

In the last General Election, Nigel Farage deliberately stood down from 316 safe Conservative seats so that he could precisely tackle the Labour side of the equation, to let Conservatives gain a majority.

breezy1985

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647471#Comment_117647471

Wasn't that got to do with not running against other pro Brexit parties

Tony EH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647471#Comment_117647471

I'm well aware of the "history". I'm just not blinded by hero worship and the need to go down rabbit holes in an effort to deflect away from previous posts. 😉

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647580#Comment_117647580

Now that you have been roundly defeated, you refer to the engagement as a rabbit hole.

As for hero worship, I was listening to Farage v. Stanley Johnson last night on climate change etc. I was very much on the side of Stanley.

So it's untrue that I prostrate at the feet of everything Farage says!

Quin_Dub

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647471#Comment_117647471

That was completely Smoke and Mirrors from Farage - They didn't have candidates for the vast majority of those seats and they knew it.

Him making this grandiose gesture was him trying to make him and his party of one look more important and influential than it ever was.

The pre-Brexit fear from Cameron was not that Farage et al would steal seats - They were never going to win seats anywhere as evidenced by Mr. 7-0 himself. The fear was that a substantial rump of the Tory fringe would up sticks and either form their own party or possibly join the Brexit party , although the former was by far the more likely scenario.

Farage et al have never been a genuine electoral threat to the Tories.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647623#Comment_117647623

That's not true.

For the General Election, they had candidates fielded throughout the entire country.

Tell me how

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645776#Comment_117645776

Lol.

If removing a guy from air because he showed support for anti-racism initiatives isn't a sign of perpetually outraged than what is it?

ancapailldorcha

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647804#Comment_117647804

Objectively false.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648067#Comment_117648067

You made the argument that "Conservatism is dead" a few pages ago.

During that election, Boris Johnson secured the highest Conservative victory since Thatcher in 1979 and secured 43.9% of the popular vote.

Conservatism is far from dead!

ancapailldorcha

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648474#Comment_117648474

You've moved the goalposts. Farage tried to do a pact with the Tories which Johnson rightly dismissed. He then had to stand down in over 300 constituencies.

I suggest you read that post again as it seems you missed the point.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648498#Comment_117648498

The reality is that Farage was always going to back down from those 316 seats.

Cummings was wise to hold firm, and it paid off.

I have read your post and I disagree with it. Farage fielded candidates throughout the country and only withdrew from Conservative strongholds once Johnson didn't accept the agreement.

That said, the agreement was in effect regardless as Farage forced the agreement by standing candidates down anyway.

listermint

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648474#Comment_117648474

If you believe what the Tories offer up is conservatism then I'm sorry I can't convince you otherwise.

Note Brexit is quite literally the antantithesis of conservatism or any conservative values on any basic examination or metric.

Both the Tories and brexit is a text book populist movement. You changing definitions will never make reality different. I'm beginning to think for a self proclaimed conservative you actually don't grip what it means and change it to suit a post on a day.

ancapailldorcha

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650051#Comment_117650051

Nonsense. He failed to win a single seat. Cummings and Johnson knew this and that therefore any alliance with him was worthless. Fielding candidates and then standing them down means that he didn't challenge every seat whereas you said he did.

ancapailldorcha

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650083#Comment_117650083

You could argue that this is what conservatism is now. I'm not above acknowledging the rich heritage of intellectual conservative thought in this country but the last great conservative was arguably Margaret Thatcher and that's over three decades ago. Modern conservatives in the UK have discarded any sort of intellectual heritage in favour of populism, demgoguery, racism, xenophobia and venality. There's no purpose to modern conservatism save for self-interest and even that's debateable with the eradication of the traditional catalysts conservatism previously employed to groom the next generation of voters.

All GB News is ultimately, is a very weak attempt at a propaganda arm.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650132#Comment_117650132

"Modern conservatives = populism, demagoguery, racism, xenophobia, and venality."

Absolute, undiluted nonsense.

The vast, vast majority of self-assessed conservatives are not associated with the bleak and biased picture you have painted.

breezy1985

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650193#Comment_117650193

Well at least they don't believe they are or convinced themselves they are not.

What is not in doubt is a vote for the current UK Conservative party is a vote for those things

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650222#Comment_117650222

Can you actually back that statement up rather than just asserting it?

How is a vote for the UK Conservative Party a vote for racism and xenophobia?

Almost 44% voted for the CP in the last General Election, and your sweeping statements could be taken to conclude that you believe the UK to be a racist nation.

ohnonotgmail

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650259#Comment_117650259

Picaninnies. Watermelon smiles. Letter boxes.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650279#Comment_117650279

How do those terms match the definition of racist and xenophobic?

Racism: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized".

Nothing of what Johnson wrote as a journalist is discrimination against a racial group. He may have used colourful language but that kind of language does not mean someone is racist. Intent matters when it comes to proving racism, and Johnson's use of language cannot be taken as some sort of intent that he is actively racist and hates ethnic groups. Black people are allowed to use the N-word, for example, but it doesn't make them racist. Again, it comes down to intention.

Furthermore, this has nothing to do with what was included in the Conservative manifesto of 2019.

Tony EH

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647602#Comment_117647602

Defeated?

ohnonotgmail

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650384#Comment_117650384

it wasn't colourful language it was racist language.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650384#Comment_117650384

I'm happy you finally looked up the meaning of racism, Would you like to withdraw your idiotic claim that I am a racist now and apologise for calling me a racist?

Joe_ Public

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650384#Comment_117650384

Was actually having some sympathy with your arguments until you came out with this absolute turkey. As they would say on a certain tv show, "I'm out".

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650400#Comment_117650400

No, it depends on context.

Take the two examples:

• Johnson goes to Nigeria, hates the people, and starts shouting watermelon smiles at them.
• Johnson goes to Nigeria, doesn't hate the people, comes back and colourfully refers to some facial commonality.

One is clearly intent to provoke racial hatred, whereas the second does not.

Similarly, Johnson colourfully referred to gays as "tank-topped bumboys". As a gay person myself, I wholeheartedly agree with this description. I don't take any offense whatsoever. Why? Because a) it's true in many cases and b) it's colourful use of language. I certainly don't conclude that Boris Johnson absolutely hates homosexuals.

We need to grow thicker skins and stop shouting -phobias and -isms at people who have no bad intentions.

ohnonotgmail

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650433#Comment_117650433

Colourful. LOL

Timberrrrrrrr

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650433#Comment_117650433

As a non Nigerian you have no clue whatsoever wether it is racist/offensive or not. Same with your gay person analogy, just because you are ok with the use of that term does not mean its ok to use it in public. What may be fine to you may be deeply offensive to other people.

Yellow_Fern

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650279#Comment_117650279

The picannies and water melon smiles might qualify as soft racism but letter boxes does not. Religion is a choice and politicians have every right to mock conservative Muslims who choice to wear a niqāb. But there is a broader point here. Voting for a politician doesnt mean you endorse every dumb thing they said. Biden once said Obama is the “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.”

he said that forced busing to desegregate schools would cause his children to “grow up in a racial jungle.”

But, I dont think Biden voters are necessarily standing over these views or endorsing them.

ohnonotgmail

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650480#Comment_117650480

well at least you admit they are racist unlike your fellow traveller.