The state of comments online about road traffic deaths and cycling

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

I've read some unbelievable bilge on these boards but this must be among the most bizarre.

It's almost like you're suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world where people drive cars. Or you are suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world in which some drivers do not always follow the law.

Needless to say, that in all of your inane ranting about how Irish drivers are unique in tolerating X, Y and Z, and are "immature" etc. you failed to mention how Irish road safety compares with the rest of the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I put it to you that given Ireland's ranking in those statistics, that it does not show evidence of unique "deep seated insecurities" or "a socially immature country." In fact, the evidence shows the exact opposite. Unless of course, it is reasonable to expect a "deeply immature" country to have a very good safety record.

And yet, none of his comments refer to relativity or international comparisons, or uniqueness. He just called it like it is - we all see it, every day - speeding, phoning, texting, lunching drivers with broken lights and windscreens obscured by phones.

Seth Brundle

SeanW wrote: »

I've read some unbelievable bilge on these boards but this must be among the most bizarre.

It's almost like you're suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world where people drive cars. Or you are suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world in which some drivers do not always follow the law.

Needless to say, that in all of your inane ranting about how Irish drivers are unique in tolerating X, Y and Z, and are "immature" etc. you failed to mention how Irish road safety compares with the rest of the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I put it to you that given Ireland's ranking in those statistics, that it does not show evidence of unique "deep seated insecurities" or "a socially immature country." In fact, the evidence shows the exact opposite. Unless of course, it is reasonable to expect a "deeply immature" country to have a very good safety record.

The following table lists the traffic fatalities up to 9am on 23 October 2020 as from AGS...
Pedestrians|26
Drivers|46
Passengers|22
Motorcyclists|17
Pedal Cyclists|7
Pillion Passengers /Other|-
Total Year To Date|119

This is an increase of eight deaths on the same period last year.

Are you really saying that because other countries are much worse, then we don't have a problem?
Given that there is a poor level of enforcement (or in some cases, no enforcement) do you believe that because our road kill figures aren't higher means that our drivers aren't that bad and we've no reason to expect better?

SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And yet, none of his comments refer to relativity or international comparisons, or uniqueness. He just called it like it is - we all see it, every day - speeding, phoning, texting, lunching drivers with broken lights and windscreens obscured by phones.

Obviously you didn't read his post. Pinchy made it very clear that he was condemning not just Irish drivers, but Irish people as a whole. In. the. very. first. sentence.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

We live in car dominated society and cars are the ultimate expression of the deep seated insecurities that exist in people in a socially immature country like ours with an ingrained culture of victim blaming and reluctance to take personal responsibility.

The rest of their inane post continued along similar lines. And I repeat my earlier view. If a poster is going to attack Irish drivers/people specifically - which is what this poster did, and very clearly - then international data, rankings etc. are both warranted and proper to put those claims into context.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Are you really saying that because other countries are much worse, then we don't have a problem?
Given that there is a poor level of enforcement (or in some cases, no enforcement) do you believe that because our road kill figures aren't higher means that our drivers aren't that bad and we've no reason to expect better?

We know that zero consequences associated with motor/road use are not possible. However the evidence shows that Ireland represents good practice. Because when it comes to things like road safety, air pollution, Ireland's motoring culture is comparatively good. Irish drivers are competent, appropriately regulated, and vehicular environmental standards are also very strong. As a consequence, Irish air is generally good, and fatalities on our roads are relatively rare.

By contrast, countries where the air is toxic and fatalities are high, tend to have lower environmental standards and bad drivers. Fatalism also plays a role in some countries (e.g. that you can drive like a maniac but you won't get into a crash if it's not your day to die). In other countries people will generally do crazy things like try to kill someone on a bike or make a maneuver without looking, or stop in the middle of a motorway because they missed their turn off (a common occurrence in China), because they actually are "socially immature" i.e. selfish or just don't give two figs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHPGFQVXkvk

You just don't see that in this country. The evidence that Irish drivers/people/society are all horrible not only doesn't exist, but actually contradicts the hypothesis. What you do have is a lot of cyclists condemning Irish people/society/drivers in a manner that is completely out of sync with reality. One of the best example of this is the OP:

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

MODERATOR NOTE: Moved the first 22 posts here to a new thread as few of them relate to speed limits in Dublin and thus off-topic on the 30km/h thread.

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-hit-by-truck-charleville-5212906-Sep2020/

This man was killed today. I had a look at the street he was killed on, typical straight road going through a typical car dominated town. We don't know the details but this kind of thing should not be happening in a town centre. If you look at the street here, you'll see it's just a straight road that you could put the foot down on if you wanted, even though it's a town centre. The street should not be designed like this, it should not be possible to floor it on a main street of a town.
I would guess this man's death could have been avoided if the street wasn't designed purely for cars.

It's truly bizarre how many cyclists seem to think that forcing Charleville's Main St to act as the main Cork-Limerick road is a good idea, and not expect the town to be dominated by that flow as a result. It's safe to assume that most of Charleville's traffic is through-traffic (likely including the lorry in the OP), but the number of cyclists who saw that aspect in this case was a number rhyming with Nero.

And yes, opposition to things like bypassing towns like Charleville is something is very much specific to cyclists.

Pinch Flat

SeanW wrote: »

I've read some unbelievable bilge on these boards but this must be among the most bizarre.

It's almost like you're suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world where people drive cars. Or you are suggesting that Ireland is the only country in the world in which some drivers do not always follow the law.

Needless to say, that in all of your inane ranting about how Irish drivers are unique in tolerating X, Y and Z, and are "immature" etc. you failed to mention how Irish road safety compares with the rest of the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I put it to you that given Ireland's ranking in those statistics, that it does not show evidence of unique "deep seated insecurities" or "a socially immature country." In fact, the evidence shows the exact opposite. Unless of course, it is reasonable to expect a "deeply immature" country to have a very good safety record.

Well at least you didn't multi-quote me so cheers for that. .

Wait - aren't you the guy that goes on about motorist hostile housing estates? A bizarre notion if ever there was one.

I've lived in the UK and Germany. You're kidding yourself if you think we don't have issues here.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

Obviously you didn't read his post. Pinchy made it very clear that he was condemning not just Irish drivers, but Irish people as a whole. In. the. very. first. sentence.

Actually, it looks like you didn't read my post Seany. I didn't comment on the question of 'Irish drivers vs Irish people'. I commented on your use of international comparisons and relativity to question a simple statement about the poor levels of driving on Irish roads.

Pinch didn't say anything about how good or bad Irish drivers are relative to other countries. The international comparisons aren't particularly relevant, and don't give much comfort to the families of the 2 or 3 people killed by motorists each week here.

And yes, there is a general societal problem with the acceptance of deaths by motorists and acceptance of poor driving standards in general. Look around you on your next journey and see how many drivers are on the phone while driving.

magicbastarder

i've driven in the UK on about half a dozen holidays and given all the 'the irish are the worst on the roads' you hear, i was (pleasantly? maybe the wrong word in the context) suprised to see some insane dick moves while driving over there. i'd put the UK on a par with ireland, based on my experiences.

haven't driven there in the last few years mind, i think i last drove there in 2015.

SeanW

Pinch didn't say anything about how good or bad Irish drivers are relative to other countries. The international comparisons aren't particularly relevant, and don't give much comfort to the families of the 2 or 3 people killed by motorists each week here.

Now you're just straight up gaslighting. He singled out Irish drivers and people very specifically "a socially immature country like ours" in the first sentence of his post and the rest of the inane rant followed along those lines.

As to the evidence, yes, I can see why you would consider it irrelevant when it tells a different story to yours. You never stop talking about how data, evidence and international context is "not relevant" (to you) while you single out Irish people/drivers specifically. But simply because you don't like the facts, does not make them less true. Gaslight people all you want, the facts will still show clearly that Irish drivers are not horrible.

And yes, there is a general societal problem with the acceptance of deaths by motorists and acceptance of poor driving standards in general. Look around you on your next journey and see how many drivers are on the phone while driving.

In Ireland specifically, or more broadly across the world?

Because that seems to be a trend here: condemning Irish people for things that are constants (and usually worse) everywhere else. Starting with the OP - it's generally accepted internationally that forcing a small towns' main street to double up as key national link between a country's main cities will have negative consequences for everyone involved. Even if you don't have fatalities, a route that tries to act as both a street and road will typically fail to work well as either.

I am not aware of anywhere in the world where an arrangement like Main St/the N20 in Charleville would be considered to be ideal. That didn't stop the OP and ALL of the cyclists that followed from solely blaming "Irish planning" and "car dominated street design" for the negative consequences following on from forcing lots of through traffic down a towns main street, which would cause problems in any country. And yes, it seems like every one of you agrees with the OP that the setup in Charleville would work if it were done in another country, less horrible than Ireland.

Pinch Flat

Tragedy overnight where a 60 year old man cycling is killed by a car. 130 comments and counting on the journal. People really need to take a look at themselves and are probably dislocated from the fact that a father, brother, friend, grandfather is not sitting down to his Sunday dinner with his family today. Some appalling comments and the journal should really close comments off when a cyclist death is reported.

This one summed it up for me

"I was almost hit by a cyclist while out walking a country road. He had his head down ear phones in all the gear heading straight for me til I shouted and he lifted his head. Very sad that someone has lost his life rip but fault can be on either side."

Like WTF

Pinch Flat

Since I posted above, there's been 25 further comments. That's in about 15 minutes.

frozenfrozen

It must be a feeling that they think it could easily have been them who killed the cyclist and they're acting how they would like others to react

Why else would you automatically stand up for someone who killed someone

I hate both sides of the pro and anti cyclist online discussions. Just interested in hating each other and not actually coming up with workable solutions.

Pinch Flat

"It’s a sad day for both parties involved.
Cycling is a great hobby but risking your life sharing narrow roads with cars and trucks is absolutely crazy.
As a driver of heavy equipment, trying to overtake a cyclist takes at least a KM, which means driving over the white line putting oncoming traffic in danger. It’s also very frustrating to have to drive behind a cyclist doing 20kph"

So this poster is condoning illegal overtaking. I'm not sure what the solution is to driving behind a cyclist doing 20kph, other than suggesting they somehow speed up to cycling at 80 or 100pkh.

Pinch Flat

Quick scan on Journal FB comments would suggest the cycling story is the most commented this morning. Some posters desperate to find a link to blame the cyclist, despite knowing zero about the story. We have one anecdote I quoted above and another anecdote from Co. Louth about cyclists hogging the road. The efforts people are trying to victim blame are astounding - one poster suggesting cyclists do indeed kill people in Ireland, despite being unable to provide any evidence. London story linked from the cyclists who killed the pedestrian a while back. Link to tragedy in phoenix park where a cyclists collided with a pedestrian in the cycle lane. This was to somehow try and provide how cyclists kill people.

One poster noted "There was a pedestrian in his 30s killed during the week by a car, and a teenager killed in a car crash a few days ago too. No one was commenting on those articles. Why does everyone feel the need to lay blame when there's someone on a bike involved?"

You've got to wonder.

magicbastarder

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It must be a feeling that they think it could easily have been them who killed the cyclist and they're acting how they would like others to react

that would stack up if the same level of comments accompanied a story about a pedestrian fatality involving a car.

frozenfrozen

magicbastarder wrote: »

that would stack up if the same level of comments accompanied a story about a pedestrian fatality involving a car.

people nearly kill cyclists way more often than pedestrians

Pinch Flat

220 posts now on FB, 152 on journal website. On a bank holiday weekend with stories about Covid, sealing of mother and baby records and further treaties for nuclear disarmament, it's cycling travelling 2-abreast, at 20kph, without lights or hi-vis etc that seem to be exercising people the most.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

Gaslight people all you want, the facts will still show clearly that Irish drivers are not horrible.

You have zero facts to show that Irish drivers are not horrible. All the evidence that you've quoted rates Irish drivers against drivers in other countries. The statement that Irish drivers are (or are not) horrible is an absolute statement, not a relative one. International comparisons do not bring anything to this statement.

Personally, any group where 98% of them break one law routinely (urban speed limits), the majority of them break another law routinely (using their phone while driving) and where they kill 2 or 3 other people each week seems quite horrible to me.

Thelonious Monk

Pinch Flat wrote: »

"I was almost hit by a cyclist while out walking a country road. He had his head down ear phones in all the gear heading straight for me til I shouted and he lifted his head. Very sad that someone has lost his life rip but fault can be on either side."

Like WTF

That same stupid bint goes on to say that a cyclist killed a pedestrian in the Phoenix Park in December 2017. I looked it up and it was the other way around ffs. This is what you're up against.

SeanW

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You have zero facts to show that Irish drivers are not horrible. All the evidence that you've quoted rates Irish drivers against drivers in other countries. The statement that Irish drivers are (or are not) horrible is an absolute statement, not a relative one. International comparisons do not bring anything to this statement.

The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice. That is reflected in global road safety rankings clearly showing that the inherent risks of road safety (which exist everywhere) are well managed in this country. There is no country (except Monaco) where nobody dies on the roads. (and even there, I'm not sure they never have fatalities, just not in the quoted reference year).

Personally, any group where 98% of them break one law routinely (urban speed limits), the majority of them break another law routinely (using their phone while driving) and where they kill 2 or 3 other people each week seems quite horrible to me.

An Irish cyclist accusing anybody of law breaking is absolutely hypocrisy. I must admit that it takes cojones to blatantly gaslight people to that level.

Road fatalities are a fact of life, all over the world. That's just an unfortunate reality. But the evidence that you claim is "not relevant" shows that the risks are well managed in this country. Which is probably why you claim it is "not particularly relevant."

Thelonious Monk

SeanW wrote: »

An Irish cyclist accusing anybody of law breaking is absolutely hypocrisy. I must admit that it takes cojones to blatantly gaslight people to that level.

Why is that hypocrisy? Also providing facts and figures to prove a point (98%) isn't gaslighting. Also breaking a rule on a bike doesn't harm others, maybe only themselves, breaking rules in cars kills people all the time.

Pinch Flat

SeanW wrote: »

The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice.

Genuine question- how many other countries have you driven in?

Thelonious Monk

I drove and cycled in Spain a lot during the summer and close passing doesn't seem to be a national past time there. The hate for cyclists doesn't appear to be there.

Pinch Flat

Yes spain very pleasant. Lots of the roads in the sierra nevadas are narrow but motorists seem to manage passing with out being an arse. Also France - have cycled in north South East and west. Again narrow rural roads in Brittany, the dorgogne, jura and the alps. Zero issues. Have cycled in Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland - different level when it comes to courtesy and mature use of shared space. All very pleasant. Goes for driving as well. Universally a more pleasant experience compared to here and I'm looking forward to a long continental drive when this pandemic passes. Goes for large European cities like Naples and the larger French cities. Yes people can be aggressive and that's to be expected with city driving but just not on the same level of laziness, sloppiness and general dopiness you see on the roads here every day whether on 2 wheels or 4.

Pinch Flat

My observation of cycle hate being normalised is largely in Anglophone countries - ourselves and the UK seem to be united in this. It's almost an officially endorsed position in the UK. Australia and the US as well. Drove the length and breath of New Zealand a few years back and a similar car centric attitide to here. Some cyclists have I saw doing the road from Franz Josef to Christchurch intimidated by close passing and beeping motorists.

AndrewJRenko

SeanW wrote: »

The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice. That is reflected in global road safety rankings clearly showing that the inherent risks of road safety (which exist everywhere) are well managed in this country. There is no country (except Monaco) where nobody dies on the roads. (and even there, I'm not sure they never have fatalities, just not in the quoted reference year).

An Irish cyclist accusing anybody of law breaking is absolutely hypocrisy. I must admit that it takes cojones to blatantly gaslight people to that level.

Road fatalities are a fact of life, all over the world. That's just an unfortunate reality. But the evidence that you claim is "not relevant" shows that the risks are well managed in this country. Which is probably why you claim it is "not particularly relevant."

Gaslighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE

Seth Brundle

SeanW wrote: »

The evidence is clear. Irish motoring culture represents best practice.

Surely, you're trying to wind us up?

AndrewJRenko

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Surely, you're trying to wind us up?

I think he might be gaslighting.

Pinch Flat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I think he might be gaslighting.

Winding up a gas light. Or else his motoring experience based on one motorist hostile housing estate somewhere in the country.

Pinch Flat

Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. You'll never read "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis helmets - and many toxic comments - with complete insensitivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's just a cyclist.

Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somehow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

I think we're just tired of it at this stage.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis vis tax - and many toxic comments - with complete insemsivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's a cyclist.

Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somwhow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

I think we're just tired of it at this stage.

I actually don't normally read RIP condolences unless it's someone I know and then I'll stick to RIP.ie , only if it's mentioned on thread would I go to a FB thread but the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

I actually don't normally read RIP condolences unless it's someone I know and then I'll stick to RIP.ie , only if it's mentioned on thread would I go to a FB thread but the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.

I think the journal should close comments for cycling related death stories. The fact it was among the most commented on stories on a bank holiday Sunday says more about us.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yes but I think the core of the issue is if a pedestrian or motorist is killed in a collision it barely gets a comment. Even when its evident from the story that speed was a factor. There's also never a hint of speeding, drink/ driving or texting being complicit. You'll never read "I saw a driver breaking the speed limit once so it must have something to do with this" or "there's a lots of people drinking and driving so this must have had something to do with it". It's just kind of accepted in car culture here.

A cyclist is killed and there's a stream of comments about the usual - insurance tax hi vis helmets - and many toxic comments - with complete insensitivity to what's happened. Someone's dad or brother or husband has died it's almost like it's not a human being that's died, it's just a cyclist.

Also anecdotes seem to feature highly "i once saw a cyclist / group of cyclists doing x or y". Somehow this has contributed and the cyclist was at fault. Also the attire seems to some how matter "i once saw a cyclist coming against me in full kit". Not necessarily on this story, but people commenting that cyclists should be run over / run off the roads not unusual either.

It's just kind of strange that it's only cycling that brings out such toxicity. It's similar to the toxic comments in the UK, Australian and US media. For some reason Anglophone countries seem to bring out a similar toxic reaction.

I think we're just tired of it at this stage.

There's nothing to indicate that speed was a factor in that report from the journal.ie, and only the report in https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/witness-appeals-after-deaths-two-19165255 mentions the fact that the cyclist was going downhill

Investigations have begun into the deaths of two men in their sixties in separate road accidents in Cork over the weekend with Gardai appealing for witnesses.

In East Cork, a Polish national in his mid-60s was killed while riding his bike on the Lower Corkhill Road in Youghal at around 7pm on Saturday evening.

The man, who had been living in Youghal, had been going down the hill when he was involved in an incident with a car coming in the opposite direction.

Could have been car on wrong side of road, could have been cyclist on wrong side of road, could have been car speeding, could have been cyclist out of control on a descent, the problem is there are too many people willing to put blame somewhere when they aren't in possession of facts and then starting arguments over it

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think the journal should close comments for cycling related death stories. The fact it was among the most commented on stories on a bank holiday Sunday says more about us.

The journal has 10 comments, facebook has 302 think it's more likely to be facebook users TBH

AlphaDelta1

I've driven in most European countries as I'm a coach driver as well as having ridden my motorbike in South America, US, Russia and Northern Africa. I'd say Irish road users are above average when it comes to behaviour, not the best but by no means the worst.

Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

There's nothing to indicate that speed was a factor in that report from the journal.ie, and only the report in https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/witness-appeals-after-deaths-two-19165255 mentions the fact that the cyclist was going downhill

Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,

Spook_ie wrote: »

Could have been car on wrong side of road, could have been cyclist on wrong side of road, could have been car speeding, could have been cyclist out of control on a descent, the problem is there are too many people willing to put blame somewhere when they aren't in possession of facts and then starting arguments over it

True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.

breezy1985

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

I've driven in most European countries as I'm a coach driver as well as having ridden my motorbike in South America, US, Russia and Northern Africa. I'd say Irish road users are above average when it comes to behaviour, not the best but by no means the worst.

Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.

Yes to this. It's become such a stupid political issue recently like everything else seems to be.

Also I envy you it sounds like you have seen some amazing places in your time

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,



True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.

Wasn't refereeing to that specific story. I was referring to pictures of wrecked cars that indicate the car was travelling at speed. I don't agree with this either ad it's insensitive to the deceased families,

Blame FB Twitter etc. People looking for the likes and followers. How many times do people see something happening, maybe a mugging or an assault and the instinct is get the camera phone running incase I catch something good for my FB page.

True. But on the past where cyclists have died alone - either a heart attack or collision with an object - people seem to jump to conclusions and linking it ti the he cyclist

I wasn't referring to the lone 60 y.o cyclist but the one involved in a fatal incident involving another vehicle.

Pretty hard not to link it to the cyclist in the circumstances of being alone

After alll, they saw a group of cycists 5 abreast / in lycra / wearing no helmets / paying no road tax / in dark clothing so it must have something to do with it.

Absolutely shoot the 5 of them at least 4 times over for cycling 5 abreast, wearing Lycra, having no helmets and wearing dark clothes

AndrewJRenko

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Cyclists, car drivers, bus drivers etc.. all just need to chill out a bit. Nobody owns the road.

This is broadly equivalent to the All Lives Matter thinking. It misses the decades of evidence showing the actual source of danger on the roads.

It's not cyclists who are killing two or three people each week.

Pinch Flat

Spook_ie wrote: »

The journal has 10 comments, facebook has 302 think it's more likely to be facebook users TBH

Yes but the same FB users for some reason ignore commenting on pedestrian or motorist deaths - it's almost like it's acceptable.

strandroad

Pinch Flat wrote: »

My observation of cycle hate being normalised is largely in Anglophone countries - ourselves and the UK seem to be united in this. It's almost an officially endorsed position in the UK. Australia and the US as well. Drove the length and breath of New Zealand a few years back and a similar car centric attitide to here. Some cyclists have I saw doing the road from Franz Josef to Christchurch intimidated by close passing and beeping motorists.

Completely agree. The whole "car culture, suburbanisation, convenience foods" package we can thank the US for has a cyclist hate aspect to it too.
Hates city planning and public transport as well.

Spook_ie

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yes but the same FB users for some reason ignore commenting on pedestrian or motorist deaths - it's almost like it's acceptable.

Nah it would seem to me that as soon as someone says sympathy to the driver involved then the trolls all came out of the woodwork, how dare someone think that a driver might be traumatized after being involved in a fatal RTA or that it's got to be the fault of the driver (even when there isn't another vehicle involved ) as in the electric scooter fatality recently in Meath.

breezy1985

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The thankfully stymied attempt to bring in 50kph limits to main roads in Dublin is staggering.

It is impossible, simply impossible, for a pedestrian who is behaving responsibly to be hit by a car travelling at 50 on a Dublin main road.

And for whaever reason pedestrians/ cyclists of West European appearance (French, German, Spanish- can usually be distinguished by their cheap clothes) are by far the worst offenders.

What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

Thelonious Monk

Spook_ie wrote: »

the amount of bile that a simple comment such as "Thinking of both the cyclists family and the car driver tough on both families" attracts is beyond belief.

Because the person is posting that to try and lay the blame on the cyclist, simple as that. They're trying to say "I hope the driver doesn't feel bad because it was obviously the cyclist fault, I saw one break red lights the other day".
It's just disgusting carry on.
What kind of a sap are you with that signature on your posts too? Ffs, get a life.

strandroad

breezy1985 wrote: »

What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

Cheaper than Penneys? Does not compute...

breezy1985

strandroad wrote: »

Cheaper than Penneys? Does not compute...

Maybe they all went to the Primark in Malaga

doublejobbing 2

breezy1985 wrote: »

What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

You obviously never met many. Most of them are tighter than a nun. Wardrobe worth a tenner, drink two pints on a night out. Hence why they cycle everywhere, too tight to get a bus never mind run a car.

Spook_ie

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Because the person is posting that to try and lay the blame on the cyclist, simple as that. They're trying to say "I hope the driver doesn't feel bad because it was obviously the cyclist fault, I saw one break red lights the other day".
It's just disgusting carry on.
What kind of a sap are you with that signature on your posts too? Ffs, get a life.

You one of those trolls?

magicbastarder

breezy1985 wrote: »

What kind of utter waffle is this. The French and Germans are dressing in rags now?

i wouldn't pay much heed, their grasp of detail is poor if they think the move to bring 50km/h limits in on the roads in dublin has been 'stymied'. there are only about 15km of roads in the entire DCC area which have a speed limit higher than 50km/h. the *vast* majority are 50km/h or lower.

doublejobbing 2

magicbastarder wrote: »

i wouldn't pay much heed, their grasp of detail is poor if they think the move to bring 50km/h limits in on the roads in dublin has been 'stymied'. there are only about 15km of roads in the entire DCC area which have a speed limit higher than 50km/h. the *vast* majority are 50km/h or lower.

Sorry, I meant 30km limits. Looks like the worst we will get is 40km. Bad but could have been worse.

These Green party scum want putting on trial.

Seth Brundle

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

These Green party scum want putting on trial.

For what?

doublejobbing 2

Seth Brundle wrote: »

For what?

Theft of our personal time.

Hazel Chu is a particularly odious character. The way she is given sometimes twice weekly interviews and opinion pieces in the national newspapers is despicable- she's a local councillor in an honorary role as mayor yet is being groomed for election as a TD.

I'm from Dublin and can barely remember who the last five mayors were yet this wan has a higher national profile than Rudy Giulani did.