Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict

Gatling

Del.Monte wrote: »

Good to see you pushing the RTE line ...nothing to see ..and now here's Gerry Daly to give advice on your roses. :rolleyes:

Pushing rte that's just stupidity on your behalf..

According to a guardian article might as well be quoting RT or Sputnik news

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

You'll care quickly enough if a NATO country gets attacked i.e. Turkey by Russia - an attack on one NATO country is regarded as an attack on all NATO countries. I suppose ignorance is bliss and when you're vapourised with the rest of us you'll die wondering why. :rolleyes:

I don't think Nato have the stomach for a fight. I wouldn't be surprised if they done everything they could not invoke article 5.

Edit: also just remembered that Turkey buy weapons (jets and missile systems iirc) from Russia. These lads aren't going to start fighting anytime soon

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think Nato have the stomach for a fight. I wouldn't be surprised if they done everything they could not invoke article 5.

Edit: also just remembered that Turkey buy weapons (jets and missile systems iirc) from Russia. These lads aren't going to start fighting anytime soon

Article 5 doesnt apply if Turkey is the aggressor.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Article 5 doesnt apply if Turkey is the aggressor.

Correct but that's not the scenario I responded to.

donaghs

wes wrote: »

The Armenians ethnically cleansed Azeri's during the first conflict. They are far from innocent in this:

https://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewHTML.asp?FileID=11283&lang=EN

Given the Azeri’s already tried to wipe out the Armenians in that enclave during the Russian Civil War, you can understand they fears. They succeeded in 1920 in wiping out the Armenians in the town of Shusha.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shusha_massacre

Donald Trump

bobbyy gee wrote: »

War

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54324772

The stretched twig of peace is at melting point

Ten of Swords

Armenia have accused Turkey of destroying one of their SU25 jets 60km inside Armenian airspace, pilot killed. They say it was shot down by a F16, which the Azeri airforce do not use, but haven't let anyone see the wreckage yet.

Del.Monte

Gatling wrote: »

Pushing rte that's just stupidity on your behalf..

According to a guardian article might as well be quoting RT or Sputnik news

I didn't mention the Guardian - the BBC is probably the most reliable news service out there and they have been all over the story on the World Service. I see it has received some belated coverage on the Irish media today.

stockshares

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Armenia have accused Turkey of destroying one of their SU25 jets 60km inside Armenian airspace, pilot killed. They say it was shot down by a F16, which the Azeri airforce do not use, but haven't let anyone see the wreckage yet.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310954418364444676?s=19

Manach

For some recent historical background: since the fall of the USSR, Russia has blamed Turkish intelligence services for stirring up ethnic tensions on its southern border and backs Armenia in part as a means to block Turkish power in the region ( source: Trenin, Dmitri. What Is Russia Up To in the Middle East? ).Even deeper is the antigonism that has prevailed between Russia and Turkey for centures, so if Putin needs to shore up his image he would have no better bogey man than Turkey. In summary, 2020 = interesting times.

suicide_circus

stockshares wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1310954418364444676?s=19

FFS

igCorcaigh

https://twitter.com/leventkemaI/status/1310989378454540289?s=19

igCorcaigh

There were rumours of Turkey bringing in fighters from Syria.

suicide_circus

Ganging up on the Christians

biko

Sharia Law, chaos and looting against Azerbaijani citizens –Baku’s plan to hire jihadists implodes

YEREVAN, SEPTEMBER 28, ARMENPRESS. The militants from Syria hired as mercenaries by Azerbaijan for the attack on Artsakh have caused chaos in the Azerbaijani villages where they are deployed and the altercations with the local Azerbaijani population has even escalated to clashes, according to the Free Azerbaijan website, among other sources

https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1029205/

Tea drinker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Article 5 doesnt apply if Turkey is the aggressor.

very true but rogue nations like the UK could individually support a Turkish war against Russia. They certainly upped the rhetoric when Turkey shot down the Russian SU-24 few years back. Turkey has done a lot of misbehaving since but I'd wager there is *some* support in NATO if Turkey goes up against Russia.
The Baltics for sure but are an ineffective force. Poland... hard to know what Polandball would do when the chips are down.
Obviously not from France.... giving some warships and planes to Greece.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200913-greece-arms-up-with-new-fighter-jets-frigates-amid-heightened-turkey-tensions

I understand some of the above is military aid and "free"

Cheerful Spring2

Some footage from the ground fighting there. Looks intense.

https://twitter.com/Zinvor/status/1311045667813568518

Gatling

Turkey has denied they shot down the su25 jet today , normally turkey would say that they did and why it will be interesting what stories get released over the next few days

4068ac1elhodqr

Longer-term super-prediction, is for Russ to actually move in, up, over, and past this small region then later down on towards... an actual invasion of ISR (along with IRN, SYR and interested partners). Could even take a lump of Turkey, else use them for assistance in this objective.

Reason being the recent very large oil finds in the Eastern Med will change the dynamics of the world's largest country [own natural resources: oil, gas etc] and trade thereof lost via the new undersea EastMed line.

If the EU/Germany etc. start to buy this (new) E.Med oil, Russ has lost it's single largest (and economic) USP. Their GDP will slide even well below current: Italy, and to that of 20-30th global type status N.African nation by 2040. Already we're seeing MidEast states friendly up to ISR, perhaps looking for cheaper oil, or the wider regional benefits of this lucrative find.

They (RUS) already lost the new space race with China aiming for bases on the moon, and Musk's fancy reusables, and Mars/Sat projects is another loss.
It would be a big gamble, and a very, very big mess for the whole region.

Del.Monte

Tea drinker wrote: »

very true but rogue nations like the UK could individually support a Turkish war against Russia. They certainly upped the rhetoric when Turkey shot down the Russian SU-24 few years back. Turkey has done a lot of misbehaving since but I'd wager there is *some* support in NATO if Turkey goes up against Russia.
The Baltics for sure but are an ineffective force. Poland... hard to know what Polandball would do when the chips are down.
Obviously not from France.... giving some warships and planes to Greece.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200913-greece-arms-up-with-new-fighter-jets-frigates-amid-heightened-turkey-tensions

I understand some of the above is military aid and "free"

Would you go away with your 'rogue nation' rubbish.

igCorcaigh

Malaysia Easy Rakishly wrote: »

Longer-term super-prediction, is for Russ to actually move in, up, over, and past this small region then later down on towards... an actual invasion of ISR (along with IRN, SYR and interested partners). Could even take a lump of Turkey, else use them for assistance in this objective.

Reason being the recent very large oil finds in the Eastern Med will change the dynamics of the world's largest country [own natural resources: oil, gas etc] and trade thereof lost via the new undersea EastMed line.

If the EU/Germany etc. start to buy this (new) E.Med oil, Russ has lost it's single largest (and economic) USP. Their GDP will slide even well below current: Italy, and to that of 20-30th global type status N.African nation by 2040. Already we're seeing MidEast states friendly up to ISR, perhaps looking for cheaper oil, or the wider regional benefits of this lucrative find.

They (RUS) already lost the new space race with China aiming for bases on the moon, and Musk's fancy reusables, and Mars/Sat projects is another loss.
It would be a big gamble, and a very, very big mess for the whole region.

It's depressing to see the big hegemonies use local quarells to their advantage. I would have thought the world now was more progressive, but no. It's back to 19C power play.

If only they could use their resources and talent to create a new clean energy system.

4068ac1elhodqr

igCorcaigh wrote: »

It's depressing to see the big hegemonies use local quarells to their advantage. I would have thought the world now was more progressive, but no. It's back to 19C power play.
If only they could use their resources and talent to create a new clean energy system.

Agree, but money talks, and sings and dances.
Oil has still get legs, maybe another 20yrs or so?

France and Jap have been dabbling with cold fusion (2030 circa), however the US has a huge surplus of WTC on it's hands, so they woudn't fancy clean power anytime soon, not forgetting the petro-dollar also.

Montage of Feck

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Turkey now sending islamic fighters from their last redoubt in Syria to fight Armenia. We are gonna see ISIS style butchery again on Armenians

It wouldn't be the first time the turks butchered Armenians.

Tea drinker

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Turkey now sending islamic fighters from their last redoubt in Syria to fight Armenia. We are gonna see ISIS style butchery again on Armenians

Why not? They used them in Libya, if this gets ugly there will be plenty of opportunity for heart eating etc like in Syria.

Markcheese

The Turks are definitely flexing their muscles ... But it's russia is the power broker in the area .they sell weapons to the armenians ,but they're on friendly terms with azerbaijan too .. pretty sure the azerbaijan oil exports have to go through russia , (or georgia but the Russians kind of call the shots there too),
what the Russians probably wouldn't be so thrilled about is the Turks encouraging loads of islamist fighters into areas on their borders ...

ohnonotgmail

Markcheese wrote: »

The Turks are definitely flexing their muscles ... But it's russia is the power broker in the area .they sell weapons to the armenians ,but they're on friendly terms with azerbaijan too .. pretty sure the azerbaijan oil exports have to go through russia , (or georgia but the Russians kind of call the shots there too),
what the Russians probably wouldn't be so thrilled about is the Turks encouraging loads of islamist fighters into areas on their borders ...

Russia had their fill of islamist fighters in checnya. They wont let that happen again.

Tea drinker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Russia had their fill of islamist fighters in checnya. They wont let that happen again.

I tend to agree but Russia will be held to a different standard with regard to pre-emptive killing of militants as they approach it's sphere of interest than say Israel is, which can operate with impunity without NATO criticism.
Especially as the terrorists being shipped to this conflict zone are loosely aligned with the west against Assad / gaddaffi / Iran etc.
We are happy to arm train Sunni Jihadis even if it means a few come off the loose leash and do a little bit of the old suicide killings in EU.
So don't expect any passes or assistance for Russia in it's "war on terror"
Expect lot's of reports of human rights abuses if Russia gets deeply involved, along with NATO sending lots of useful arms to Jihadis handlers.
Maybe some more sanctions action too.

Gatling

Tea drinker wrote: »

I tend to agree but Russia will be held to a different standard with regard to pre-emptive killing of militants as they approach it's sphere of interest than say Israel is, which can operate with impunity without NATO criticism.
Especially as the terrorists being shipped to this conflict zone are loosely aligned with the west against Assad / gaddaffi / Iran etc.
We are happy to arm train Sunni Jihadis even if it means a few come off the loose leash and do a little bit of the old suicide killings in EU.
So don't expect any passes or assistance for Russia in it's "war on terror"
Expect lot's of reports of human rights abuses if Russia gets deeply involved, along with NATO sending lots of useful arms to Jihadis handlers.
Maybe some more sanctions action too.

Has anyone seen any evidence to back up the claims made on twitter or the guardian (which came from twitter) about jihadis been shipped in by Azerbaijan ,we heard a Turkish F16 shot down an Armenian su25 jet again claimed zero evidence ,we got another claim written in an Armenian news paper saying this and that .

Both sides were asked to attend peace talks which Armenia ,if we see hospitals getting bombed from the air it's safe to say putin is officially involved .

With a localised conflict which has been on and off for 30 years there will always be claim and counter claims to make the other side look bad and to try draw in allies to the conflict

igCorcaigh

https://twitter.com/JudeDwain/status/1311755550288306176?s=19

igCorcaigh

This panel discussion is from 2016.

What is clear from this is how little has changed in the dynamics of the conflict since then, and the failure of the Minsk process right up to this point.

Also notable is the lack of any representation from the region of NK. A failure of both regional and global leaderships.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNw1Ka05PM4