Trump's tax info is out

Wanderer78

steddyeddy wrote: »

Does anyone else think he regrets becoming president? None of this stuff would have come out if he was just a crap businessman.

regret is something narcissists dont consider, he ll just blame everyone bare himself for his failures

threeball

steddyeddy wrote: »

Does anyone else think he regrets becoming president? None of this stuff would have come out if he was just a crap businessman.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was "encouraged" to run by his benefactors. They had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Bare in mind, this is a guy who's been reliant on Russian mafia money since his first manhattan projects which would have failed spectacularly without it.

ZeroThreat

Wanderer78 wrote: »

only a few weeks now, and we ll see, we ll also continue to hear from the irish supporters to, before and after!

I find it amazing there seems to be so many Irish supports of Trump (at least online) who regard the Democrats as 'commies' despite the fact that they (Mainstream part of the party anyway) are well to the right of FG on most policies.

Would these malcontents then regard our own current political setup as a Marxist-Leninist junta that needs to be overthrown?

threeball

Wanderer78 wrote: »

like they did with the wealthy american bankers last time? wealthy people rarely go to jail, he ll probably be grand, in and out of court, using other peoples money, he ll be grand

Hes got under the skin of some very powerful people. Far far more influential than him. There will be a push to see him suffer once this is done.

Quin_Dub

Tony EH wrote: »

Broke...on paper. There's plenty of money and assets floating around. The wealthy employ people to go to great lengths to hide their wealth.

The rich in America will often look "broke" on paper and play the poor mouth, but they're not going to end up on skid row any time soon.

Remember, Donnie's been "bust" before.

A key difference with a lot of his current debt is that he has personally guaranteed those loans.

Forbes valued his assets at about $2.5B without any real insight into his debt profile.

We now know that he is personally in debt to the tune of about $1.2B - All of which is coming due in the next couple of years. It's also likely that there is a more debt out there buried among his literally thousands of shell companies.

The valuations for his assets were using fair market value or best estimates - They were not based on how leveraged they were or their value in the event of a fire-sale scenario.

If he was to try and sell some of his assets now (or in the future) everyone now knows how badly he'd need the cash , so they would low-ball the price big time.

So his true net worth is probably well south of a billion (still not bad at all , but likely far less than if he'd just taken the 400 odd million he got from his father and invested it in a fund)

His ability to get people to loan him money is inextricably linked to his "Mega Business Mogul" identity.

The release of his taxes utterly destroy that identity and uncovers decades of bad business decisions kept afloat by more and more debt.

His path to funding is now gone.

This is why he has fought for so long to keep his taxes secret - He's a busted flush.

Wanderer78

threeball wrote: »

Hes got under the skin of some very powerful people. Far far more influential than him. There will be a push to see him suffer once this is done.

he ll slither his way out, its what narcissist's generally do, justice is rarely served there

The Nal

He has something no one else does though. The Trump brand. Can't really put a price on that.

This is a nothing burger but I think it will actually help Trump. Its something everyone already knew and its deflecting from the real issues.

Wanderer78

The Nal wrote: »

He has something no one else does though. The Trump brand. Can't really put a price on that.

This is a nothing burger but I think it will actually help Trump. Its something everyone already knew and its deflecting from the real issues.

how so?

astrofool

The Nal wrote: »

He has something no one else does though. The Trump brand. Can't really put a price on that.

This is a nothing burger but I think it will actually help Trump. Its something everyone already knew and its deflecting from the real issues.

I think everyone knew he paid little to no taxes, they didn't know he was effectively broke, which undermines his story as a great businessman to get the best deals for the USA.

Would be great to know what the "real issues" are, as Trump barely talks any policy, beyond making things "great".

steddyeddy

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I find it amazing there seems to be so many Irish supports of Trump (at least online) who regard the Democrats as 'commies' despite the fact that they (Mainstream part of the party anyway) are well to the right of FG on most policies.

Would these malcontents then regard our own current political setup as a Marxist-Leninist junta that needs to be overthrown?

I work in America for around half the year. I urge people not to take Irish Trump supporters seriously. They haven't a clue what they're talking about and they themselves are ridiculed by American Trump supporters.

The Nal

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how so?

Because all people are talking about now is his money or lack of. Again, like 2016, its all "TRUMP". No such thing as bad publicity these days.

astrofool wrote: »

I think everyone knew he paid little to no taxes, they didn't know he was effectively broke, which undermines his story as a great businessman to get the best deals for the USA.

Hes far from broke. He could easily pay this off and still be worth 100s of millions and he has potential for unlimited earnings as an ex president named Trump.

astrofool wrote: »

Would be great to know what the "real issues" are, as Trump barely talks any policy, beyond making things "great".

The real issues are the ones the Democrats are losing column inches to this week due to the tax thing. Should all be about the economy, the environment, Covid, international relations etc but nope. All about Trump again.

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I find it amazing there seems to be so many Irish supports of Trump (at least online) who regard the Democrats as 'commies' despite the fact that they (Mainstream part of the party anyway) are well to the right of FG on most policies.

Its one of the most cringing things about Irish culture. They tend to be Facebook addicts.

Wanderer78

The Nal wrote: »

Because all people are talking about now is his money or lack of. Again, like 2016, its all "TRUMP". No such thing as bad publicity these days.

Hes far from broke. He could easily pay this off and still be worth 100s of millions and he has potential for unlimited earnings as an ex president named Trump.

The real issues are the ones the Democrats are losing column inches to this week due to the tax thing. Should all be about the economy, the environment, Covid, international relations etc but nope. All about Trump again.

Its one of the most cringing things about Irish culture. They tend to be Facebook addicts.

some good points, and i think you could be right, this could be a positive for himself

Tony EH

The Nal wrote: »

He has something no one else does though. The Trump brand. Can't really put a price on that.

This is a nothing burger but I think it will actually help Trump. Its something everyone already knew and its deflecting from the real issues.

Everybody knows he's a fraud, sure. But the difference here is that there's a figure on it now and that'll play hard with how a lot of people view him.

When the "hard working Americans" he likes to invoke so much understand that their hero has paid less in taxes than the price of their new TV, they won't be happy.

Sure, the lapdogs and boot licks won't care and still think he's a "great guy". But fools like that can't be helped anyway.

But there are a lot of people voted for Trump because they believed his bullshit about tackling "elites" and changing how things were done in America. They might be waking up and smelling the coffee now.

Wanderer78

Tony EH wrote: »

Everybody knows he's a fraud, sure. But the difference here is that there's a figure on it now and that'll play hard with how a lot of people view him.

When the "hard working Americans" he likes to invoke so much understand that their hero has paid less in taxes than the price of their new TV, they won't be happy.

Sure, the lapdogs and boot licks won't care and still think he's a "great guy". But fools like that can't be helped anyway.

But there are a lot of people voted for Trump because they believed his bullshit about tackling "elites" and changing how things were done in America. They might be waking up and smelling the coffee now.

tax avoidance is good, the government is taking your money! yup, second term it is!

Quin_Dub

Others have said it , but the most damaging thing about the reports so far is the $750 figure.

It's such a simple number , extremely relatable for the average person - A number like that is a Medical bill , a months Rent or a repair bill for a broken heating system heading into the Winter etc.

It's a number that will really resonate with the very voters Trump needs to stick with him - Blue collar workers in the Rust belt.

The ability for Biden etc. to relentlessly hammer on $750 ,$750 , $750 shouldn't be under estimated.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

tax avoidance is good, the government is taking your money! yup, second term it is!

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Others have said it , but the most damaging thing about the reports so far is the $750 figure.

It's such a simple number , extremely relatable for the average person - A number like that is a Medical bill , a months Rent or a repair bill for a broken heating system heading into the Winter etc.

It's a number that will really resonate with the very voters Trump needs to stick with him - Blue collar workers in the Rust belt.

The ability for Biden etc. to relentlessly hammer on $750 ,$750 , $750 shouldn't be under estimated.

.......

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Others have said it , but the most damaging thing about the reports so far is the $750 figure.

It's such a simple number , extremely relatable for the average person - A number like that is a Medical bill , a months Rent or a repair bill for a broken heating system heading into the Winter etc.

It's a number that will really resonate with the very voters Trump needs to stick with him - Blue collar workers in the Rust belt.

The ability for Biden etc. to relentlessly hammer on $750 ,$750 , $750 shouldn't be under estimated.

Trump will weasel out of that easily.

"Im still under IRS audit, I pay huge amounts of tax through companies, I employ thousands of people, I pay more tax than you'll ever know, tremendous amounts of tax" etc.

Quin_Dub

The Nal wrote: »

Trump will weasel out of that easily.

"Im still under IRS audit, I pay huge amounts of tax through companies, I employ thousands of people, I pay more tax than you'll ever know, tremendous amounts of tax" etc.

Yeah.. with his base definitely , but others , I'm not so sure.

How much damage did "Lock her up" and "But her emails" do to Clinton.

Both were about absolutely nothing substantive , but they hit a specific message - Clinton isn't trustworthy and it stuck.

This has the potential to do the same for Trump, with the message being - He's taking you all for a ride and his not a good business man.

And just as Clinton couldn't escape the messaging , Trump can't either.

Wanderer78

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yeah.. maybe...

How much damage did "Lock her up" and "But her emails" do to Clinton.

Both were about absolutely nothing substantive , but they hit a specific message - Clinton isn't trustworthy and it stuck.

This has the potential to do the same for Trump, with the message being - He's taking you all for a ride and his not a good business man.

And just as Clinton couldn't escape the messaging , Trump can't either.

clinton and himself, are too completely different beasts

steddyeddy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Others have said it , but the most damaging thing about the reports so far is the $750 figure.

It's such a simple number , extremely relatable for the average person - A number like that is a Medical bill , a months Rent or a repair bill for a broken heating system heading into the Winter etc.

It's a number that will really resonate with the very voters Trump needs to stick with him - Blue collar workers in the Rust belt.

The ability for Biden etc. to relentlessly hammer on $750 ,$750 , $750 shouldn't be under estimated.

That may be the most visually damaging but I think the fact he paid Ivanka as a consultant could be legally damaging.

Quin_Dub

steddyeddy wrote: »

That may be the most visually damaging but I think the fact he paid Ivanka as a consultant could be legally damaging.

You are probably right , but the legal aspect will be a long time coming , it's how this gets leveraged over the next 5 weeks that matters.

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yeah.. with his base definitely , but others , I'm not so sure.

How much damage did "Lock her up" and "But her emails" do to Clinton.

Both were about absolutely nothing substantive , but they hit a specific message - Clinton isn't trustworthy and it stuck.

This has the potential to do the same for Trump, with the message being - He's taking you all for a ride and his not a good business man.

And just as Clinton couldn't escape the messaging , Trump can't either.

Honestly I saw the "lock her up, build the wall, drain the swamp" thing as chants for people to feel part of something - anything. Its not based in fact and doesnt carry any real message. It just makes people feel part of a group. Yes We Can had a similar effect.

Any time a Trump rally started losing steam in 2016 Trump just reverted to one of those chants and it worked.

Timberrrrrrrr

steddyeddy wrote: »

That may be the most visually damaging but I think the fact he paid Ivanka as a consultant could be legally damaging.

This is why Trump would be stupid to mention Hunter Biden, Joe can just hammer back about both Ivanka and Eric.

Gunmonkey

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yeah.. with his base definitely , but others , I'm not so sure.

How much damage did "Lock her up" and "But her emails" do to Clinton.

Both were about absolutely nothing substantive , but they hit a specific message - Clinton isn't trustworthy and it stuck.

This has the potential to do the same for Trump, with the message being - He's taking you all for a ride and his not a good business man.

And just as Clinton couldn't escape the messaging , Trump can't either.

No point trying to "gottem" with the tax or such, fairly easy for him to swing it as him being "smart".

Biden should focus more on his consistent loses, easier to connect the dichotomy of his big businessman persona with his years of loses; by definition, Trump is a loser (as he has lost so much money) and a failure of a businessman (if a business is losing money rather than gaining, its deemed a failing brand)

Just go out there and push Trump as being a loser and America being in a worse place than it was 4 years ago...just like all of his businesses!

steddyeddy

Gunmonkey wrote: »

No point trying to "gottem" with the tax or such, fairly easy for him to swing it as him being "smart".

Biden should focus more on his consistent loses, easier to connect the dichotomy of his big businessman persona with his years of loses; by definition, Trump is a loser (as he has lost so much money) and a failure of a businessman (if a business is losing money rather than gaining, its deemed a failing brand)

Just go out there and push Trump as being a loser and America being in a worse place than it was 4 years ago...just like all of his businesses!

You would think wouldn't you. However, his response so far has been to declare it fake news while simultaneously moaning that it was obtained illegally. Luckily for Trump's opponents, he doesn't seem to listen to advisors. He considers himself above that.

Quin_Dub

Gunmonkey wrote: »

No point trying to "gottem" with the tax or such, fairly easy for him to swing it as him being "smart".

Biden should focus more on his consistent loses, easier to connect the dichotomy of his big businessman persona with his years of loses; by definition, Trump is a loser (as he has lost so much money) and a failure of a businessman (if a business is losing money rather than gaining, its deemed a failing brand)

Just go out there and push Trump as being a loser and America being in a worse place than it was 4 years ago...just like all of his businesses!

Agreed - It's not really the amount of tax paid , it's the reasons why are the thing that is damaging..

"Trump only paid $750 in tax , imagine how bad you'd have to be at running a business to only owe $750" or something similar...

JP Liz V1

Trump the gift that keeps giving to media

BattleCorp

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Agreed - It's not really the amount of tax paid , it's the reasons why are the thing that is damaging..

"Trump only paid $750 in tax , imagine how bad you'd have to be at running a business to only owe $750" or something similar...

You'll never cut it as a tax accountant, that's for sure. You can only owe $750 in tax and be a spectacularly successful businessman. In fact the best business people minimise their income tax through the use of schemes, expenses etc. It's a huge part of business. It's called tax avoidance and if done correctly, is totally legal. Can't say yet if Trump's tax avoidance has strayed from avoidance to evasion but time will tell.

Donald Trump

BattleCorp wrote: »

You'll never cut it as a tax accountant, that's for sure. You can only owe $750 in tax and be a spectacularly successful businessman. In fact the best business people minimise their income tax through the use of schemes, expenses etc. It's a huge part of business. It's called tax avoidance and if done correctly, is totally legal. Can't say yet if Trump's tax avoidance has strayed from avoidance to evasion but time will tell.

There is a difference between the person who takes advantages of existing loopholes and the person who has power over the opening or closing of new or existing ones.

Quin_Dub

BattleCorp wrote: »

You'll never cut it as a tax accountant, that's for sure. You can only owe $750 in tax and be a spectacularly successful businessman. In fact the best business people minimise their income tax through the use of schemes, expenses etc. It's a huge part of business. It's called tax avoidance and if done correctly, is totally legal. Can't say yet if Trump's tax avoidance has strayed from avoidance to evasion but time will tell.

Tax avoidance is one thing , but the majority of his Tax reductions were down to plain old "losses" , some were smart usage of the tax code to claim deductions , like the hair-care costs , but the majority are just simply because his core businesses consistently spend more than they take in , in some cases by very large margins.