Trump's tax info is out

BattleCorp

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Tax avoidance is one thing , but the majority of his Tax reductions were down to plain old "losses" , some were smart usage of the tax code to claim deductions , like the hair-care costs , but the majority are just simply because his core businesses consistently spend more than they take in , in some cases by very large margins.

Easy enough to move stuff around on a balance sheet and overplay the losses to your advantage. I'm saying that not all the losses are genuine losses. Yeah, he's had failures for sure, but he's using them to his advantage.

Outlaw Pete

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Wow - That cover-story shifted fast..

So now the information isn't "Fake" , it's "Illegally obtained" - So it's True..

That barely lasted a day..

These are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. The narrative is fake. The information they used was illegally obtained.

205,000 dead under Trump

10th in the World when it comes to Deaths per 1 Million (933). UK (618) & Italy (593) are at a similar level. Some States in the US have numbers which are much higher than others when it comes to deaths per million. Five of the six highest in that regard are Blue states and I suspect that's not a coincidence as these States have generally been purely run. New York's Governor made a mess of looking out for the elderly and vulnerable and you can't blame the POTUS for that.

Indeed, Cuomo himself praised Trump for his response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EXefeZ7SGA

Then he went all Fredo and turned and played politics when the numbers began to look bad for him.

57% of people earning less money after his tax cuts (pre covid) than they did under Obama

Jan, 2020:

Trump’s Tax Reform Is Helping Most People

The income gains for the median-income household since President Trump took over and as measured by the Census Bureau are close to $5,000. That’s almost $100 a week of added take-home pay for working-class families—and roughly five times the rate of middle-class progress under Barack Obama. This was the objective of tax reform, and so far it is working like a charm for all income groups.

Less Jobs created by Trump in his 1st 3 years, then created under Obama (and Biden) in their last 3 years

Meaningless stat which doesn't tell half the story, much less the full one. Shall we compare Trump's first three years to Obama's first three? Nah, cause Obama inherited a recession, right, and so that wouldn't be fair. Well,the stats you're citing also have context but y'all will have no bother removing it but yet will moan if similar is done when citing Obama's early numbers. Can't have it both ways, but you'll try.

In Feb 2020, the Unemployment rate reached a 50-year low at 3.5% whilst job openings were higher than the number of job seekers by 1 Million and you can spin and twist stats as much as you like, but it won't matter a jot as it was clear Trump was knocking it out of the park. It's just incredulous what you folks post on the regular. You don't like the man's politics, has zip to do with anything else, let's quit pretending otherwise.

5GMadeMeDoIt

I can't see them going after Trump personally. As much as he may deserve it I don't think there's the appetite among the political class to see a former president behind bars. I do think they will go after his business very aggressively to try and put off any future Trump-like candidates. There may also be a few sacrificial lambs thrown in. I'd be getting very nervous if I was Jared and maybe Eric.

Penn

5GMadeMeDoIt wrote: »

I can't see them going after Trump personally. As much as he may deserve it I don't think there's the appetite among the political class to see a former president behind bars. I do think they will go after his business very aggressively to try and put off any future Trump-like candidates. There may also be a few sacrificial lambs thrown in. I'd be getting very nervous if I was Jared and maybe Eric.

Ivanka wouldn't let anything happen to Jared, and Donald wouldn't do anything to upset Ivanka.

Probably going to be revealed that the mastermind behind the whole thing was Tiffany.

Sorolla

To be honest I may not be about to express a popular opinion - I have great admiration for a billionaire that knows the tax code so well that he can reduce his tax liability to $750

Multinational corporations employ the most intelligent people to reduce their tax liability

This man is a genius

Ardillaun

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Says the New York times. The representative of Trump disputes this and says millions paid. Going on past witch hunts would suggest i would believe the Trump representative rather than the paper.

Are you sure Trump’s spokesperson said that millions in US federal taxes had been paid? We’re not talking about sales taxes here.

Why doesn’t Trump clear this all up himself? He can release his own tax returns any time he likes.

Leroy42

Sorolla wrote: »

To be honest I may not be about to express a popular opinion - I have great admiration for a billionaire that knows the tax code so well that he can reduce his tax liability to $750

Multinational corporations employ the most intelligent people to reduce their tax liability

This man is a genius

Great, and he seems to agree with you yet for some reason he fought tooth and nail to keep his tax returns out of the public domain.

This is a man that takes every possible opportunity to laud even the remotest of positives. Yet we are supposed to believe that he is shy about telling people what a genius he is when it comes to tax?

It just doesn't fit his character.

Sorolla

Leroy42 wrote: »

Great, and he seems to agree with you yet for some reason he fought tooth and nail to keep his tax returns out of the public domain.

This is a man that takes every possible opportunity to laud even the remotest of positives. Yet we are supposed to believe that he is shy about telling people what a genius he is when it comes to tax?

It just doesn't fit his character.

He was also a very good guy and he has been very nice to us for years

Foxtrol

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Tax avoidance is one thing , but the majority of his Tax reductions were down to plain old "losses" , some were smart usage of the tax code to claim deductions , like the hair-care costs , but the majority are just simply because his core businesses consistently spend more than they take in , in some cases by very large margins.

The problem for Trump is that the lines he used to brush off this in 2016 don't hold up now.

It is one thing to play the 'smart' card when you're the outsider but to say you changed tax law while in office and left enough loop holes that you only paid $750 shows corruption.

Saying to ignore the talk of his businesses making losses and his numerous bankruptcies is a lot easier when you haven't ran up national debt to historic levels and failed so badly dealing with COVID that record numbers of people lost their jobs (and lives).

These stories aren't going to move the needle for MAGA heads but they move independents that gave Trump a chance last time. Trump was destroyed in the popular vote and only squeaked by in the electoral college by a few thousand votes.

Phoebas

BattleCorp wrote: »

You can only owe $750 in tax and be a spectacularly successful businessman. In fact the best business people minimise their income tax through the use of schemes, expenses etc. It's a huge part of business. It's called tax avoidance and if done correctly, is totally legal.

Not a message that's likely to play well with the white working class voters in swing states like Michigan who swung to Trump last time out.

Donald Trump

Sorolla wrote: »

To be honest I may not be about to express a popular opinion - I have great admiration for a billionaire that knows the tax code so well that he can reduce his tax liability to $750

Multinational corporations employ the most intelligent people to reduce their tax liability

This man is a genius

You think that billionaires do their own accounts?

riclad

He,s not a genius ,say his casino lost 900 million and closed down.
He can claim a tax credit of 900 million against future profits over the next few years .he employs accountants . the tax laws in new york and america are complicated ,a real estate devoloper can claim for 100 of items, plus depreciation .
say he owns a building worth 300 million.he can claim depreciation of 5 per cent per year .
Even if the actual value of the building go,s up every year.
he applied for a tax refund of 75 million.that is why his taxs are being checked ,to see if he committed tax fraud .in theory he could get a bill
for 100 million, 75 million plus interest from the IRS.
iF he gets elected again he might be the first president to go bankrupt.
He has a genius for getting publicity and being famous which enabled him
to run for office.
if he was ranked as a business man he,d be mediocre ,as his business,s all seem to lose money.

Gunmonkey

Donald Trump wrote: »

You think that billionaires do their own accounts?

This. I doubt he knows a thing about taxation...probably thinks the "tax code" is the number for the door into the IRS.

Foxtrol

Gunmonkey wrote: »

This. I doubt he knows a thing about taxation...probably thinks the "tax code" is the number for the door into the IRS.

In usual mafia don style, I'm sure he was well aware of the dodgy stuff they were doing even if he didn't pull the trigger himself.

That is why fact someone else did it his taxes is no excuse when it comes to US law

Truthvader

Maybe it is possible that a bad person who is venal and self serving can manage an economy.

briany

On the one hand, it's hardly unheard of for businessmen to use every loophole and bit of creative accounting they can to reduce their tax bill to an absolute minimum, so I can't really call Trump anything other than as bad as the rest of them in that regard.

However, most businessmen are not POTUS, and he's not got a leg to stand on if he wants to tell other Americans to pay their taxes. He's said in the past that his tax avoidance makes him 'smart' and that the government only squanders the small tax he does pay. Ultimately, public infrastructure is paid for by taxes, so if no tax is paid, or it is severely underpaid, then you don't have any more public infrastructure or what you do get takes ages to build or is bog standard. And then you have a bunch of angry people wondering why this is so, despite the fact that they did to themselves in following a lousy example of a president.

riclad

The government pays for medical service,s ,road,s bridges, airports, infrastructure ,police,army, water supply , paying taxs is the duty of every working person.
most people retire and they may depend on a government funded pension.
the internet was designed and created by a government agency.saying he is smart to pay a small amount of tax is an insult to every citizen and anyone who works for the government .

his business,s are failing ,he owes 500 million, he is being audited .
He is not a good example to anyone .
the us government is losing billions in tax revenue every year ,
because the IRS has suffered cuts to its employee,s .
it does not have the staff to audit most people even people who earn millions .
A person who earns 40k is as likely to be audited as someone who earns 500k per year.
people who earn 40k cannot afford to hire expert accountants to reduce
their tax bill .
Most business owners employ accountants to do their tax,s
as the tax system is quite complicated in america,
theres 100s of tax credits you can claim as someone in the real estate business .
His governments policy is to give large tax breaks to any large business ,
eg the rich get richer ,while making it more expensive for ordinary people
to get medical insurance at a reasonable price.

The Rooster

Personally I don't think Trump cares what anyone thinks about his taxes. The reason he won't release anything isn't because some years he paid feck all tax, it's because some years he's been losing money.

He's under IRS audit for a number of years, so I doubt very much he's done anything dodgy at all in recent years to have his tax bill at $750 (according to the reports - although we should always be wary about journalists writing about tax, as most of the time they get it wrong).

There is also the case that he donates his $400k salary for being president back to the government coffers, so pays no tax on that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But if he really has only paid nominal tax in recent years, it's almost certainly for the simple reason that his outgoings have matched or exceeded his income. He is what Trump would call a "loser". That's what the Dems should focus on as that would annoy him much more than whatever his tax bill is!

gormdubhgorm

Great summary here:

Trump's tax avoidance schemes are less likely to worry voters as he admitted them in 2016 GE. And he claimed it made him smart, that he wants to pay as little tax as possible.

However, Trump personally liable for $421m of debts - which may worry voters.

all about the mane

The Rooster wrote: »

Personally I don't think Trump cares what anyone thinks about his taxes. The reason he won't release anything isn't because some years he paid feck all tax, it's because some years he's been losing money.

He's under IRS audit for a number of years, so I doubt very much he's done anything dodgy at all in recent years to have his tax bill at $750 (according to the reports - although we should always be wary about journalists writing about tax, as most of the time they get it wrong).

There is also the case that he donates his $400k salary for being president back to the government coffers, so pays no tax on that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But if he really has only paid nominal tax in recent years, it's almost certainly for the simple reason that his outgoings have matched or exceeded his income. He is what Trump would call a "loser". That's what the Dems should focus on as that would annoy him much more than whatever his tax bill is!

But the dems just don’t seem to get it.

all about the mane

Gunmonkey wrote: »

This. I doubt he knows a thing about taxation...probably thinks the "tax code" is the number for the door into the IRS.

Ah Shure he’s completely absolved of any responsibility so... :rolleyes:

tobefrank321

He'll just declare bankrupcy for what is it, the 5th time?

But hey successful business man and all that.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

The government pays for medical service,s ,road,s bridges, airports, infrastructure ,police,army, water supply , paying taxs is the duty of every working person.

Fully agree, which is why it's galling to see so called left-wing artists like Blindboy use the artists exemption to reduce the income tax they pay. I don't care that they are entitled to use the loophole, the money they are choosing to not pay could be used for healthcare etc here.

astrofool

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

These are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. The narrative is fake. The information they used was illegally obtained.

So you think that someone made fake data, and then put it in a place where it was illegal to obtain it?

C'mon, you're pushing credulity here, it's either fake data, or illegally obtained, it can't be both.

The narrative is the data, everyone can see it, Donald's a busted flush.

Outlaw Pete

astrofool wrote: »

So you think that someone made fake data, and then put it in a place where it was illegal to obtain it?

I never mentioned "fake data" - where did you pull that one from.

The narrative is the data, everyone can see it, Donald's a busted flush.

No it's not. The data is just data. Their narrative is what they maintain the data is indicative of .

BattleCorp

A big deal is being made that Trump owes about $500 million. It's a big sum to be sure but how much are his assets worth? Forbes reckon Trump has assets worth about $2.5 billion.

Owing that amount of money isn't a problem if you have assets in excess of what's owed.

pinking

I read that he wrote off 70k in his tax report for hair styling??? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/28/hairstyling-donald-trump-taxes-numbers-us-president-finances

how is this even allowed?

ChikiChiki

BattleCorp wrote: »

A big deal is being made that Trump owes about $500 million. It's a big sum to be sure but how much are his assets worth? Forbes reckon Trump has assets worth about $2.5 billion.

Owing that amount of money isn't a problem if you have assets in excess of what's owed.

I doubt his assets are worth 2.5bn. A lot of his wealth comes from licencing of his name. It seems he actually doesn't own many of the hotels that have his name over the door.

He's a salesman rather than the real estate mogul image that he has cultivated.

astrofool

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I never mentioned "fake data" - where did you pull that one from.



No it's not. The data is just data. Their narrative is what they maintain the data is indicative of .

So, your contention is that the data is real then?

astrofool

pinking wrote: »

I read that he wrote off 70k in his tax report for hair styling??? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/28/hairstyling-donald-trump-taxes-numbers-us-president-finances

how is this even allowed?

As a television personality, it's allowed as a business expense, pretty par for the course (but of course funny as he looks like sh*t).