Where are the deaths coming from?

Wanderer78

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The "experts" predicted something like 100,000 deaths for Sweden if they didn't lock down.

humans generally tend to be pretty sh1t at predictions!

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Some said it last week, trying to reason someone out of an opinion with stats and data, when that person hasn't reasoned themseves into that opinion with stats and data is pointless.

There has been an abdication of all self thought.

Fact is, excess deaths are at about 850 for the year until July, and the months after are well below average.

A point is going to come, when Covid wont actually have killed anyone at all

Like the fact you said that the flu is deadlier than COVID-19 in under 65s? Would you like to retract your statement in lieu of your false "stats and data" you used?

3xh

Augeo wrote: »

So do we bin the measures to control covid so and see how many are impacted?

It’s very simple;

Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on.

Let pub owners, restauranteurs, entertainment amenities, sports complexes, etc etc open up fully, IF they so choose. The patrons will decide themselves if they want to use them.

No government nor member of the public could insist they open, such is democracy and capitalism after all.

And from that, tell the public do what you want. You know the risks, you know the mitigating steps to take, if you see a restaurant that the owner is happy to open up and is brimming with patrons, choose yourself to move on to another one if you feel uncomfortable with the crowds.

Wear a mask on Clontarf seafront on a windy day because YOU WANT TO. Nobody banned you from doing so before Covid started.

If you believe in all things Ronan Glynn and RTE, you won’t go out. That’s fine. And if you do, you’ll keep 2m from people around you, sneeze in your elbow, make an adult decision to stay within your county (if under advice by NPHET not to do so) etc etc etc.

This top down blanket ban policy is nuts and serves only to buffer the very people drafting it in the first place from rightful accountability.

tobefrank321

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Some said it last week, trying to reason someone out of an opinion with stats and data, when that person hasn't reasoned themseves into that opinion with stats and data is pointless.

There has been an abdication of all self thought.

Fact is, excess deaths are at about 850 for the year until July, and the months after are well below average.

A point is going to come, when Covid wont actually have killed anyone at all

There's likely a large over count of deaths. Many elderly people ended up in hospital in the last 6 months with something else that was likely to kill them and also happened to pick up covid. They died from the other illlness but covid goes on the death cert. Its why deaths in countries like Germany are so low and in the UK so high, different ways of counting or miscounting deaths.

We also know now that a ventillator may increase your chance of death rather than reduce it.

And a large number of people Covid did kill were on deaths door already.

I just wish NPHET and co were transparent with the numbers. It feels like they are trying to maximise the impact of covid instead of being realistic.

Excess deaths is probably the more realistic figure.

Wanderer78

3xh wrote: »

It’s very simple;

Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on.

Let pub owners, restauranteurs, entertainment amenities, sports complexes, etc etc open up fully, IF they so choose. The patrons will decide themselves if they want to use them.

No government nor member of the public could insist they open, such is democracy and capitalism after all.

And from that, tell the public do what you want. You know the risks, you know the mitigating steps to take, if you see a restaurant that the owner is happy to open up and is brimming with patrons, choose yourself to move on to another one if you feel uncomfortable with the crowds.

Wear a mask on Clontarf seafront on a windy day because YOU WANT TO. Nobody banned you from doing so before Covid started.

If you believe in all things Ronan Glynn and RTE, you won’t go out. That’s fine. And if you do, you’ll keep 2m from people around you, sneeze in your elbow, make an adult decision to stay within your county (if under advice by NPHET not to do so) etc etc etc.

This top down blanket ban policy is nuts and serves only to buffer the very people drafting it in the first place from rightful accountability.

think we should also allow people to take on as much debt as possible, win win......

monara

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Why isn't this bigger news?

The virus is mainly killing people who are a few years older than the average lifespan.

And these old people can be easily isolated as they don't need to work anymore.

Yet for some reason the government has decided to destroy the economy, destroy the lives of millions of Irish people, and cause an absolute mass of depression, abuse and addiction problems.

Agree. Total lockdowns no longer necessary. The vulnerable should isolate, using common sense while the majority of workers continue in their jobs, observing distancing and other measures.

3xh

3xh wrote: »

It’s very simple;

Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on.

Let pub owners, restauranteurs, entertainment amenities, sports complexes, etc etc open up fully, IF they so choose. The patrons will decide themselves if they want to use them.

No government nor member of the public could insist they open, such is democracy and capitalism after all.

And from that, tell the public do what you want. You know the risks, you know the mitigating steps to take, if you see a restaurant that the owner is happy to open up and is brimming with patrons, choose yourself to move on to another one if you feel uncomfortable with the crowds.

Wear a mask on Clontarf seafront on a windy day because YOU WANT TO. Nobody banned you from doing so before Covid started.

If you believe in all things Ronan Glynn and RTE, you won’t go out. That’s fine. And if you do, you’ll keep 2m from people around you, sneeze in your elbow, make an adult decision to stay within your county (if under advice by NPHET not to do so) etc etc etc.

This top down blanket ban policy is nuts and serves only to buffer the very people drafting it in the first place from rightful accountability.

That's the absolute greatest load of horsesh1t I'll read all day. Even Trump isn't that daft.

monara

monara wrote: »

Agree. Total lockdowns no longer necessary. The vulnerable should isolate, using common sense while the majority of workers continue in their jobs, observing distancing and other measures.

That's what's happening in Ireland now, even in Dublin and Donegal largely.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

That's the absolute greatest load of horsesh1t I'll read all day. Even Trump isn't that daft.

you read that sh1te!

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theyre not purposely doing this, they exist in our society also, why would they want to purposely fcuk themselves up as well? running a country, during an extremely rare event, its extremely difficult, our health care system may not have the capacity to deal with this, during peak season.

I don't think they're doing it on purpose to amass power or whatever, I think these people are utterly incompetent and shouldn't be running a country. They are politicians (scum) not competent leaders (successful CEOs, etc.)

Wanderer78

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't think they're doing it on purpose to amass power or whatever, I think these people are utterly incompetent and shouldn't be running a country. They are politicians (scum) not competent leaders (successful CEOs, etc.)

so politicians are scum, and ceo's are competent and successful?

FintanMcluskey

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There's likely a large over count of deaths. Many elderly people ended up in hospital in the last 6 months with something else that was likely to kill them and also happened to pick up covid. They died from the other illlness but covid goes on the death cert. Its why deaths in countries like Germany are so low and in the UK so high, different ways of counting or miscounting deaths.

We also know now that a ventillator may increase your chance of death rather than reduce it.

And a large number of people Covid did kill were on deaths door already.

I just wish NPHET and co were transparent with the numbers. It feels like they are trying to maximise the impact of covid instead of being realistic.

Excess deaths is probably the more realistic figure.

Excess deaths are at about 850 to July.

July August and September have less notices on RIP than 2019, circa 1000, it will be interesting when the CSO publish the official figures

Kilboor

I think if anything, Covid has made me realise how cancerous and fake the media are. Absolute ****ing constant hysteria and scaremongering, and then the absolute fools buzzing off the situation and talking about it using phrases like "New Normal".

Shows how easily brainwashed the average person is. It would be nice for the media to lay down the facts for once. I'm unsure of how serious Covid is due to all the conflicting reports and the media's/states refusal to state the average age of deaths and if they had underlying illnesses.

I think once this is all over the stats will show that the tests were ineffective and unreliable, the average age for those that died will be above the average lifespan for an Irish person anyway, they will have underlying illnesses and mostly be in Nursing Homes (privately run nursing homes funded by the tax payers money, but no one will be held accountable no doubt), and that many people will have carried the virus asymptomatically.

Wanderer78

Kilboor wrote: »

I think if anything, Covid has made me realise how cancerous and fake the media are. Absolute ****ing constant hysteria and scaremongering, and then the absolute fools buzzing off the situation and talking about it using phrases like "New Normal".

Shows how easily brainwashed the average person is. It would be nice for the media to lay down the facts for once. I'm unsure of how serious Covid is due to all the conflicting reports and the media's/states refusal to state the average age of deaths and if they had underlying illnesses.

I think once this is all over the stats will show that the tests were ineffective and unreliable, the average age for those that died will be above the average lifespan for an Irish person anyway, they will have underlying illnesses and mostly be in Nursing Homes (privately run nursing homes funded by the tax payers money, but no one will be held accountable no doubt), and that many people will have carried the virus asymptomatically.

be careful with the so called 'social media' for info as well!

3xh

Augeo wrote: »

That's the absolute greatest load of horsesh1t I'll read all day. Even Trump isn't that daft.

Thanks for your input.

Do you not think if and when the numbers of cases/hospitalisations/ICU/deaths soar from such a plan, there’d come a point in peoples’ psyche that will make them think, ‘ok, I see it now. It’s just like March into April again. I guess I could get this virus. I’m scared now. I’ll take on the advice’ etc and act accordingly.

In the meantime, you’ll have been fine as you would’ve been restricting your movements, masking up, halving your contacts, etc etc.

We coped, hospitals-wise, even at the peak. If the populace saw the figures get anywhere near April’s again, it’d be no different.

Do you think death numbers would be similar next time round? How could they? Cases are similar to April yet deaths are basically zero. And that’s after we opened up many sectors during summer into August.

3xh

3xh wrote: »

.........

Do you not think if and when the numbers of cases/hospitalisations/ICU/deaths soar from such a plan, there’d come a point in peoples’ psyche that will make them think, ‘ok, I see it now. It’s just like March into April again. I guess I could get this virus. I’m scared now. I’ll take on the advice’ etc and act accordingly. ............

It would quite likely be too late, also you can't rely on the general population to do the right thing.

3xh wrote: »

.........In the meantime, you’ll have been fine as you would’ve been restricting your movements, masking up, halving your contacts, etc etc. ..........

And entering a shop for groceries and other essentials that's potentially full of clowns without masks who haven't been reducing their contacts etc etc.

3xh wrote: »

................We coped, hospitals-wise, even at the peak. If the populace saw the figures get anywhere near April’s again, it’d be no different. ......

What happened at the peak, we were in lockdown, we don't want to get back to lockdown.

3xh wrote: »

.........Do you think death numbers would be similar next time round? How could they? Cases are similar to April yet deaths are basically zero. And that’s after we opened up many sectors during summer into August.

Likely due to all of the measures in place, that you are saying to remove......... "Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on."

tobefrank321

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Excess deaths are at about 850 to July.

July August and September have less notices on RIP than 2019, circa 1000, it will be interesting when the CSO publish the official figures

The excess death total for the year to date should be included in every NPHET press conference going forward.

You can make mistakes counting covid deaths but you can't make much of a mistake with excess deaths.

So far the impact of covid appears to be an excess of about 800 deaths for the year to date.

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so politicians are scum, and ceo's are competent and successful?

I was specific about successful CEOs.

Wanderer78

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I was specific about successful CEOs.

ah right, so those businesses that have been bailed out, is due to unsuccessful ceo's, yea?

Roger_007

Kilboor wrote: »

I think if anything, Covid has made me realise how cancerous and fake the media are. Absolute ****ing constant hysteria and scaremongering, and then the absolute fools buzzing off the situation and talking about it using phrases like "New Normal".

Shows how easily brainwashed the average person is. It would be nice for the media to lay down the facts for once. I'm unsure of how serious Covid is due to all the conflicting reports and the media's/states refusal to state the average age of deaths and if they had underlying illnesses.

I think once this is all over the stats will show that the tests were ineffective and unreliable, the average age for those that died will be above the average lifespan for an Irish person anyway, they will have underlying illnesses and mostly be in Nursing Homes (privately run nursing homes funded by the tax payers money, but no one will be held accountable no doubt), and that many people will have carried the virus asymptomatically.

I suppose that the most telling fact is that the death rate worldwide from this most deadly and contagious disease is about 1 in 8000.
Not all that scary really?

Kilboor

Roger_007 wrote: »

I suppose that the most telling fact is that the death rate worldwide from this most deadly and contagious disease is about 1 in 8000.
Not all that scary really?

I'd rather see clearer stats for Ireland. Different countries and people can be more susceptible to things like the flu due to genetic makeup, diets, healthcare, injections, climates etc. Not to mention hygiene practices and general age makeup with high skews to older populations in certain countries.

weldoninhio

Russman wrote: »

Or maybe when things started happening the virus was so new that nobody knew much about it ? Hindsight is great but governments around the world have to take a conservative approach and can't gamble with citizens lives. Its all very well to argue we needn't have done something, but what if we hadn't done it and it turned out we should have ? There'd be the same people calling for heads to roll.

I dunno, this craic of people thinking there's some vast conspiracy going on or everyone is being lied to by government just doesn't stack up. Why oh why would almost every government in the world crash their economies and fudge death numbers just for the heck of it ?

Hindsight? The nerds at NPHET have come out today and said they think we’ll need rolling lockdowns for the foreseeable future.

3xh

Augeo wrote: »

It would quite likely be too late, also you can't rely on the general population to do the right thing.



And entering a shop for groceries and other essentials that's potentially full of clowns without masks who haven't been reducing their contacts etc etc.



What happened at the peak, we were in lockdown, we don't want to get back to lockdown.



Likely due to all of the measures in place, that you are saying to remove......... "Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on."

Every single one of your answers contains at least one word of subjectivity or conditionality. In other words, your feelings, thoughts or hopes. I’m not discussing that.

Regarding you quoting my piece about removing all restrictions etc. Just to clarify, I’m not advocating NPHET rescind all advice/restrictions, pack up their bags and go home. In fact, I’d encourage them to continue with their online targeting, media briefings, advertising banners etc etc. and periodically remind those people who want to listen to those easy to implement tools like washing hands, case numbers, etc.

That’s a massive difference to what you’re trying to make out I’m implying.

3xh

Roger_007 wrote: »

I suppose that the most telling fact is that the death rate worldwide from this most deadly and contagious disease is about 1 in 8000.
Not all that scary really?

Lies. Damn Lies. And Statistics, as they say.

We don’t know 1m people have died. And we definitely don’t know how many people have actually contracted it at one point.

When Britain and Germany use different counting methods, for just one example, and Britain wrote down their total by 5,500 it’ll be an impossible figure to quote. The death rate.

Lazy journalists will certainly try to include it in their articles at least once.

3xh

3xh wrote: »

Every single one of your answers contains at least one word of subjectivity or conditionality. In other words, your feelings, thoughts or hopes. I’m not discussing that. ...................

I was replying to your thoughts FFS, ........if and when ........ there would come a point

3xh wrote: »

..........................
Do you not think if and when the numbers of cases/hospitalisations/ICU/deaths soar from such a plan, there’d come a point in peoples’ psyche that will make them think, ‘ok, I see it now. It’s just like March into April again. I guess I could get this virus. I’m scared now. I’ll take on the advice’ etc and act accordingly. .......................

3xh

3xh wrote: »

............... I’m not advocating NPHET rescind all advice/restrictions, pack up their bags and go home. In fact, I’d encourage them to continue with their online targeting, media briefings, advertising banners etc etc. and periodically remind those people who want to listen to those easy to implement tools like washing hands, case numbers, etc.

That’s a massive difference to what you’re trying to make out I’m implying.

Really........

3xh wrote: »

It’s very simple;

Remove all ‘guidelines’ ‘advice’ ‘regulations’ etc etc about Max 15 people here and there, not travelling across your county border, max gym class sizes, Dublin pubs closed and on and on and on.

Let pub owners, restauranteurs, entertainment amenities, sports complexes, etc etc open up fully, IF they so choose. The patrons will decide themselves if they want to use them.

No government nor member of the public could insist they open, such is democracy and capitalism after all.

And from that, tell the public do what you want. You know the risks, you know the mitigating steps to take, if you see a restaurant that the owner is happy to open up and is brimming with patrons, choose yourself to move on to another one if you feel uncomfortable with the crowds.

Wear a mask on Clontarf seafront on a windy day because YOU WANT TO. Nobody banned you from doing so before Covid started.

If you believe in all things Ronan Glynn and RTE, you won’t go out. That’s fine. And if you do, you’ll keep 2m from people around you, sneeze in your elbow, make an adult decision to stay within your county (if under advice by NPHET not to do so) etc etc etc.

This top down blanket ban policy is nuts and serves only to buffer the very people drafting it in the first place from rightful accountability.

FintanMcluskey

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The excess death total for the year to date should be included in every NPHET press conference going forward.

You can make mistakes counting covid deaths but you can't make much of a mistake with excess deaths.

So far the impact of covid appears to be an excess of about 800 deaths for the year to date.

Of course they should include the excess death rate, but that doesnt sound as impressive as saying Covid has killed 1800 people.

Zebra3

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theyre not purposely doing this, they exist in our society also, why would they want to purposely fcuk themselves up as well? running a country, during an extremely rare event, its extremely difficult, our health care system may not have the capacity to deal with this, during peak season.

Political cowardice.

Afraid to change tack. Worried to be seen as admitting a mistake or a sign of weakness. Just plough ahead with blinkers on.

Also the concern the reaction of the virtue signalers and other politicians who'll label them granny killers.

Wanderer78

Zebra3 wrote: »

Political cowardice.

Afraid to change tack. Worried to be seen as admitting a mistake or a sign of weakness. Just plough ahead with blinkers on.

Also the concern the reaction of the virtue signalers and other politicians who'll label them granny killers.

say wha?

bb1234567

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Why isn't this bigger news?

The virus is mainly killing people who are a few years older than the average lifespan.

And these old people can be easily isolated as they don't need to work anymore.

Yet for some reason the government has decided to destroy the economy, destroy the lives of millions of Irish people, and cause an absolute mass of depression, abuse and addiction problems.

They make up the bulk of the deaths because originally outbreaks were more concentrated in nursing homes, ie. the most vulnerable people were also most likely to become infected. I think it is a mistake to say that because most of the deaths were in this age group that they are the only age group that could be badly affected. Limited community outbreaks would skew this figure.

It is a risk to people in the 50-70 age group as well, as we can see from death statistics in South and North America where the virus is much more prevalent in the community than in Ireland. In the United States over 42,000 people under 65 have died of COVID in the USA as of September. In Brazil about 50,000 people under 65 have died of COVID. In India about 50,000 as well. Mexico similar proportion.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/older-adults.html
So there is clearly an appreciable risk for people younger than nursing home age as well, older middle aged people in the 55-65 age bracket are at a reasonably concerning level of risk of complications from COVID.

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

running a country isnt easy, you can be damn sure boardies such as ourselves wouldnt be able to do a better job, but our egos might tell us otherwise

How do you know? They’re hardly the brains of Ireland. A few school teachers, career brown nosers, college dropouts, the odd degree. The vast majority have zero knowledge of life outside their political circle. How many are from council estates?

Wanderer78

bb1234567 wrote: »

They make up the bulk of the deaths because originally outbreaks were more concentrated in nursing homes, ie. the most vulnerable people were also most likely to become infected. I think it is a mistake to say that because most of the deaths were in this age group that they are the only age group that could be badly affected. Limited community outbreaks would skew this figure.

It is a risk to people in the 50-70 age group as well, as we can see from death statistics in South and North America where the virus is much more prevalent in the community than in Ireland. In the United States over 42,000 people under 65 have died of COVID in the USA as of September. In Brazil about 50,000 people under 65 have died of COVID. In India about 50,000 as well. Mexico similar proportion.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/older-adults.html
So there is clearly an appreciable risk for people younger than nursing home age as well.

people really are nuts on the internets!

Wanderer78

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know? They’re hardly the brains of Ireland. A few school teachers, career brown nosers, college dropouts, the odd degree. The vast majority have zero knowledge of life outside their political circle. How many are from council estates?

small id imagine, us on the internets think we could do better if we were doing the job, thats just our egos talking, be wary of the ego, ive one of them, and hes one narcissistic arsehole at times, oh ive met one or two politicians, its one sh1t job

IAmTheReign

Augeo wrote: »

So do we bin the measures to control covid so and see how many are impacted?

No one is saying bin all measure to control COVID, people are rightly asking if the measures in place are the most effective way to deal with the problem.

I agreed with the initial lockdown. No one really knew what the potential impact of the disease was at the time. We do now though. Fatalities are overwhelmingly confined to >65s, and even among the elderly 95% of those who died had underlying health issues.

That doesn't mean we should throw the sick and the elderly to the wolves, it means efforts should be targeted at isolating those who are actually at a significant risk from COVID until an effective treatment can be found.

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

think we should also allow people to take on as much debt as possible, win win......

We are already, well, our govt is.

Wanderer78

weldoninhio wrote: »

We are already, well, our govt is.

rising public debt has caused far less problems than rising private debt, its not a problem

Russman

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hindsight? The nerds at NPHET have come out today and said they think we’ll need rolling lockdowns for the foreseeable future.

WHO said that several months ago too, they figured thats how it would play out over the next year or so.

bb1234567

Wanderer78 wrote: »

people really are nuts on the internets!

What do you mean?
My theory makes sense. If the USA's deaths under 65 were adjusted to Ireland's size, we would have seen 650 deaths under 65. We've seen much fewer than that as our population has had a much more limited community outbreak.

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah right, so those businesses that have been bailed out, is due to unsuccessful ceo's, yea?

You're purposefully choosing to misunderstand.

A successful CEO has worked his way up the ranks and now leads a successful company. He has real world work experience, leadership skills, knows how to run an organisation and probably has some sort of management qualification. Again, I'm talking about a successful CEO.

A politician doesn't need any work experience or any skills apart from being able to get people to vote for them. For example, our current leader, Micheál Martin, has one year of real world work experience (history teacher). Do you really think that makes him more qualified than a successful CEO?

So we have a person with one year of teaching experience running the country. Amazing.

Wanderer78

bb1234567 wrote: »

What do you mean?
My theory makes sense. If the USA's deaths under 65 were adjusted to Ireland's size, we would have seen 650 deaths under 65. We've seen much fewer than that as our population has had a much more limited community outbreak.

they re not fcuking lying, ffs, stop reading sh1te on the internets

bb1234567

Wanderer78 wrote: »

they re not fcuking lying, ffs, stop reading sh1te on the internets

What? Who did I accuse of lying?

USA has a similar age demographic as Ireland, yet they have seen 6x times as many COVID deaths under 65 per capita. Clearly we have not had a large community outbreak yet at least on the scale of the US.

It's not ****e on the internet, it's CDC official death records of US covid deaths

Genghis

For me, neither of the key stats we need are reliable - the % of population that has been infected, and the % of infected who have died (and by extension the % of population who have died).

To be accurate, any infection rate would need to include asymptomatic cases, which are not being uncovered and are difficult to test for post infection. The death rate can only be established once the infection rate is known (and ideally with standard definition re: counting co-existing conditions, etc).

In relation to the stats that have actually been released continuously and on a consistent basis over the past 6 months, the death rate is far flatter now than in what we call 'wave 1'. I think that is because in wave 1 the disease had spread through the older population (via nursing homes), resulting in higher mortality rates - now, its is running through younger people the death rate is far lower. I suspect also the asymptomatic rate is also higher now as young people are also more likely to be asymptomatic.

The government / media narrative is to leverage the higher daily count to heighten fears / implement lockdowns. They never really have to explain why death rates, ICU and bed occupancy are lower this time round (even if they are steadily rising, they are rising more slowly).

They are even able to equate the death rate from wave 1 with wave 2 and then suggest that younger people may be at the same risk of death as the elderly people were from wave 1 - even though the death rates have yet to show that actually happening.

I think if real data points could be established - e.g. between infection rate and death rate across age groups, we could perhaps come up with overall better coping mechanisms - e.g. risk based controls for a general population (sensible precautions, but normal life) and for at-risk population (70+, underlying conditions), etc. Maybe a 5-level risk chart for the individual based on these factors instead of a 5 level lockdown table for wide geographic areas.

weldoninhio

Russman wrote: »

WHO said that several months ago too, they figured thats how it would play out over the next year or so.

Same WHO who said they backed masks because of “political pressure”??

FintanMcluskey

bb1234567 wrote: »

What? Who did I accuse of lying?

USA has a similar age demographic as Ireland, yet they have seen 6x times as many COVID deaths under 65. Clearly we have not had a large community outbreak yet at least on the scale of the US.

It's not ****e on the internet, it's CDC official death records of US covid deaths

For some reason the not well published fact about Covid is how severly it effects obesity.

3xh

Augeo wrote: »

Really........

Augeo, again; NPHET can stay and pronounce things like max 15 people wherever so that if you walk by a restaurant and it has 15 people in it (or outside as it is currently) you can decide yourself that you’re not happy to stop by but continue onto another place that has 14 patrons.

By doing so, it allows a restauranteur to open up fully and allows their potential patrons to decide.

Currently, restauranteurs (and all business owners basically, for that matter) are following the advice about limits etc) by threat of enforcement action.

Same with max gym class sizes. NEPHT can recommend X is the max. If you turn up and it’s full (multiples of X) you as the adult can say, nope, Ronan said X is the max, I’m going home.

If you choose to fully follow NPHET’s advice, it won’t affect you whether there’s 16 sitting outside a restaurant or a full house of patrons. You won’t be there anyway?

You mitigate your risks by getting home delivery? You’re working from home again if you’re county is ‘closed’? You’ve cut your contacts in half this week, yes? Are there any restrictions/advice you don’t agree with and/or break?

They can advise away. It’s the cessation of government blindly following them that I’m calling for. A reversal of policy to one where business owners and customers are free to choose who opens and who visits as opposed to all forced to comply, as is currently.

Wanderer78

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You're purposefully choosing to misunderstand.

A successful CEO has worked his way up the ranks and now leads a successful company. He has real world work experience, leadership skills, knows how to run an organisation and probably has some sort of management qualification. Again, I'm talking about a successful CEO.

A politician doesn't need any work experience or any skills apart from being able to get people to vote for them. For example, our current leader, Micheál Martin, has one year of real world work experience (history teacher). Do you really think that make him more qualified than a successful CEO?

no im not, please explain how successful ceo's are so, and politicians are scum, when many well known corporations and financial institutions have been bailed out, and on a regular basis, particularly during downturns, are you seriously trying to tell me, thats always due to unsuccessful ceo's?? they seem to be doing just fine when they leave, with their stock options and millions in the bak, and before they leave they probably engage in financial activities such as share buy backs. successful, me hole! sure look across the pond and the other fella! dont be shoveling that sh1t around the place, and keep a good eye on your ego, he can be a little narcissistic at times!

bb1234567

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

For some reason the not well published fact about Covid is how severly it effects obesity.

Yes true, USA's obesity rate is 75% higher than that of Ireland's. But even taking that into account USA's covid deaths under 65 are proportionally still significantly higher

Zebra3

bb1234567 wrote: »

What? Who did I accuse of lying?

USA has a similar age demographic as Ireland, yet they have seen 6x times as many COVID deaths under 65 per capita. Clearly we have not had a large community outbreak yet at least on the scale of the US.

It's not ****e on the internet, it's CDC official death records of US covid deaths

I'd guess there is a lot of people in the US in poor health due to the absolute crap they eat, working 2-3 jobs to survive, and people who lost their jobs as a result of covid with no social support to survive.

The average Irish person tends to look healthier than the average American, and one's immune system is crucial.

FintanMcluskey

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'd guess there is a lot of people in the US in poor health due to the absolute crap they eat, working 2-3 jobs to survive, and people who lost their jobs as a result of covid with no social support to survive.

The average Irish person tends to look healthier than the average American, and one's immune system is crucial.

Its coming for obese like nothing before.

Its not well known though, it seems.

Interesting to know the BMI of those who died or needed intensive treatment

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no im not, please explain how successful ceo's are so, and politicians are scum, when many well known corporations and financial institutions have been bailed out, and on a regular basis, particularly during downturns, are you seriously trying to tell me, thats always due to unsuccessful ceo's?? they seem to be doing just fine when they leave, with their stock options and millions in the bak, and before they leave they probably engage in financial activities such as share buy backs. successful, me hole! sure look across the pond and the other fella! dont be shoveling that sh1t around the place, and keep a good eye on your ego, he can be a little narcissistic at times!

Look, I know from your history you hate people who are successful or not working class, so I'm not going to participate in a stupid conversation where you pretend successful CEOs don't exist. Get a grip.