New laptop for business/Programming

bennyineire

Hey All,

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a new laptop for me, I've started work as a contractor as I.T. Support and Software Dev.

I've always liked Dell Latitudes for there dependability and build quality but I'm willing to look around at other brands

Budget: €800 (max)
Intended use: programming, development, general Office applications
Mobility: 13" preferred, no bigger than 14". Sturdy build quality, light too
Processer: i5 or equivalent
Keyboard: Backlit and QWERTY
Hard drive: 240GB SDD
Ram: 8GB (but expandable so none of this welded to the board nonsense)
Operating System: Windows only or no OS, I'm comfortable installing OS
Condition: New (no refurbs)

magicbook 14 / matebook d 14. made by Huawei. they make great laptops. offer much better value for the money than current dells. (I like dells - just this is much better for the money)

your budget stretches to the new cpu amd 4000 series - £670 . use parcel motel etc. plenty here have ordered no issue.

it's 6-core whereas equivalent intels are only 4-core

pick "new product" option on this page at the offer line

https://www.hihonor.com/unitedkingdom/product/honor-magicbook-14

free gift offered also

light, powerful, premium metal build. good battery life, good keyboard + trackpad

by the way - ram is soldered.

you may not be aware but most laptops in 2020 have soldered ram (gaming laptops aside) and most especially in the 13 or 14 inch form factor (very few if any without it).

8gb is plenty for business use and will be for the coming years.

grogi

glasso wrote: »

by the way - ram is soldered.

you may not be aware but most laptops in 2020 have soldered ram (gaming laptops aside) and most especially in the 13 or 14 inch form factor (very few if any without it).

8gb is plenty for business use and will be for the coming years.

8GB of RAM for anything more serious than selling up to Facebook is simply a joke.

bobbyy gee

Intel's new cpu 11 series is coming out soon
As it's new 10 series can not compete with amd 4500 and 4700
You can't get the new amd CPUs in Ireland and uk they only sell and 3500 which is a lot slower also nvidia is bringing out new cheaper faster video card soon it's a bad time to buy a laptop now maybe in December the huwai and honor laptops they recommend here are slower and cpu

GarIT

glasso wrote: »

by the way - ram is soldered.

you may not be aware but most laptops in 2020 have soldered ram (gaming laptops aside) and most especially in the 13 or 14 inch form factor (very few if any without it).

8gb is plenty for business use and will be for the coming years.

I completely disagre. 16GB is the minimum for a premium machine, and depending what development they are doing they might want 32GB to stay relevant for the next few years. 32GB would be the minimum if they were going to be using a few VMs for example.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

I completely disagre. 16GB is the minimum for a premium machine, and depending what development they are doing they might want 32GB to stay relevant for the next few years. 32GB would be the minimum if they were going to be using a few VMs for example.

his stated budget is 800 euros max you may have noticed....

please post some links within the budget - I'd be really interested in them....

16gb, in a 13 /14 inch form factor is difficult to get under 900/950 euro, even on sale and then you are limited to the sale choice

if OP really needs the ram for his uses then will have to up the budget.

Did he say that he would need to run multiple vm's? no he didn't.

he stated 8gb ram as his requirement

I was working within his budget range.

grogi

grogi wrote: »

8GB of RAM for anything more serious than selling up to Facebook is simply a joke.

that sounds complicated, whatever it is :pac:

GarIT

glasso wrote: »

his stated budget is 800 euros max you may have noticed....

please post some links within the budget - I'd be really interested in them....

16gb, in a 13 /14 inch form factor is difficult to get under 900/950 euro, even on sale and then you are limited to the sale choice

if OP really needs the ram for his uses then will have to up the budget.

Did he say that he would need to run multiple vm's? no he didn't.

he stated 8gb ram as his requirement

I was working within his budget range.

I was replying to you saying that 8gb will be plenty for the coming years.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

I was replying to you saying that 8gb will be plenty for the coming years.

for the uses of most users it is fine - browsing, productivity (ms office etc), streaming of media, light laptop gaming

it's been that way for the last 6/7 years already and will remain so for the foreseeable future. no new requirement has come in to change that.

unless you have a specific use case e.g. -> a heavy video editor or intensive developer

bennyineire

8GB is fine for now but I would defiantly like to upgrade to 16GB in the next year or 2.

Pity the magic book's RAM is soldered otherwise I would defiantly go for it.

Some 14" latitudes have spare/removable RAM ports still

PMBC

Such a disappointment.
Bennyineire is not the farmer Benny that I thought he was. Of course it could be his son!

thomas 123

This would be my go to considering your budget, also leaves you some room for a desk/monitor or whatever other peripherals you need.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-MateBook-2020-Multi-screen-Collaboration/dp/B083WXVJ13

scamalert

thomas 123 wrote: »

This would be my go to considering your budget, also leaves you some room for a desk/monitor or whatever other peripherals you need.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-MateBook-2020-Multi-screen-Collaboration/dp/B083WXVJ13

if i was in the market for one id def snatch it, seems quite decent modern laptop and good price, specially if one can get good conversion rate on pound.

thomas 123

scamalert wrote: »

if i was in the market for one id def snatch it, seems quite decent modern laptop and good price, specially if one can get good conversion rate on pound.

It’s been sitting at that price all this year thankfully.

bennyineire

bennyineire wrote: »

8GB is fine for now but I would defiantly like to upgrade to 16GB in the next year or 2.

Pity the magic book's RAM is soldered otherwise I would defiantly go for it.

Some 14" latitudes have spare/removable RAM ports still

with smaller laptops e.g. 13/ 14 inch it's the exception nowadays to have non-soldered ram

just the way it is

primarily done by manufacturers as it allows for laptops to be thinner and smaller as a conventional ram clip slot does not have to be used.

grogi

bennyineire wrote: »

8GB is fine for now but I would defiantly like to upgrade to 16GB in the next year or 2.

Pity the magic book's RAM is soldered otherwise I would defiantly go for it.

Some 14" latitudes have spare/removable RAM ports still

No, it's not if you are doing any development work.

My PC is using 11.5 GiB of memory right now - and I don't have any VM spinned up yet... 16GiB is an absolute minimum for the OP.

bennyineire

Mmmm, so it looks like my options are far better if I'm willing to go to a 15" model

check the magicbook pro here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058117252

only 1.7kg so portable

soldered but 16gb

4600h is a punchy cpu also

sell the free watch for 100 euro and in budget or just about

ressem

So IT support / Programming:

You may want to save for an external monitor or 2 at your primary workplace. Outlook / Teams / Slack can sit on screen of their own, not needing interaction.
You way want Windows 10 Pro to allow using bitlocker to secure your SSD in case of device loss. (not win home) avoiding unencrypted employer's data loss.
Just be wary of the "allow company X to manage your device" question from Azure / 365, allowing remote wipe and employer policies.

If you reconsider the no-refurbs option...
https://www.europc.co.uk/dell-latitude-14-5400-intel-core-i5-8365u-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-14-1920x1080-fhd-dell-3-yr-wty-142323.html
£649 + VAT

Otherwise contact a Dell business account manager to get proper latitude pricing. They'll be about €750+vat for a latitude with a 8/9th gen Intel i5, 1920x1080, 256 GB SSD, 8GB RAM.
€170 quid cheaper than the website pricing, using the older processor.

As for the memory debate, Windows will sensibly try to use all available memory, leaving it free is wasteful. Visual Studio, and certainly VS code will make-do with 8GB.
VMware won't but I find it's preferable to reuse a desktop for running those, so stuff can run overnight, without laptop suspends.

the free magicwatch 2 option is gone from the Magicbook Pro but it's still a great laptop if you need a punchy cpu, 16gb ram, decent size ssd, metal build, colour-accurate screen, good speakers.

still portable at 1.7kg

https://www.hihonor.com/unitedkingdom/product/honor-magicbook-pro

beauf

If it were me I'd stretch to Dell XPS 2020. I like the screens and keyboards.

Though if I'm doing any serious dev work I need a big screen, preferably two. So I have a laptop dock. But I remote into a desktop machine do to dev work. The laptop for me it's only a window to that machine. Or I need to a quick job for someone.

https://youtu.be/2SfSUjxNHtE

Current work laptop is a hp pro 14" Ryzen. Can't fault it really. But it's not my main Dev machine.

Depends how much you need to portable though..

I also have a 13" with a 4k screen and that resolution can be handy to see everything at times. Normally I work in 1080. Just easier on the eyes. Also have a cheap 17' but the quality on the screen is so poor I never use. I might upgrade the screen.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

If it were me I'd stretch to Dell XPS 2020. I like the screens and keyboards.

Though if I'm doing any serious dev work I need a big screen, preferably two. So I have a laptop dock. But I remote into a desktop machine do to dev work. The laptop for me it's only a window to that machine. Or I need to a quick job for someone.

https://youtu.be/2SfSUjxNHtE

Current work laptop is a hp pro 14" Ryzen. Can't fault it really. But it's not my main Dev machine.

Depends how much you need to portable though..

I also have a 13" with a 4k screen and that resolution can be handy to see everything at times. Normally I work in 1080. Just easier on the eyes. Also have a cheap 17' but the quality on the screen is so poor I never use. I might upgrade the screen.

don't think that he's going to stretch to €1500 from €800

and for that money, even tho it's a nice design the specs are not great at all

https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/laptops/new-xps-13/spd/xps-13-9300-laptop/cnx93001#features_section

beauf

For me it's about the screen especially in a bright environment and keyboard and trackpad. Less about the headline specs. Battery life is also important.

My work laptop is too dim on a bright day. Made worst as it kicks into powersaving dimming too early
I can't change it because it's a locked down desktop. One of my other laptops has a odd keyboard layout. I just hate typing or coding on it.

I don't do the heavy lifting on the laptop. I've a desktop workstation for that. Maybe that's why I'm less concerned about the other specs.

But if it's your only machine and you have a tight budget, then yes it's not great bang for buck that is totally valid.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

For me it's about the screen especially in a bright environment and keyboard and trackpad. Less about the headline specs. Battery life is also important.

My work laptop is too dim on a bright day. Made worst as it kicks into powersaving dimming too early
I can't change it because it's a locked down desktop. One of my other laptops has a odd keyboard layout. I just hate typing or coding on it.

I don't do the heavy lifting on the laptop. I've a desktop workstation for that. Maybe that's why I'm less concerned about the other specs.

But if it's your only machine and you have a tight budget, then yes it's not great bang for buck that is totally valid.

the magicbook pro is a bit heavier (still easily portable tho but not an ultra ultrabook like the xps 13) but a lot more powerful than the xps 13 (6-core h series cpu with igpu) for closer to half the price and has 16gb ram and good build.

the screen is good quality in terms of colour accuracy and pretty bright at 300 nits (300 nits is the sort of benchmark for good brightness)

beauf

300 is dire...

https://www.laptopmag.com/benchmarks/display-brightness

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Best-Notebook-Displays-As-Reviewed-By-Notebookcheck.120541.0.html

beauf

glasso wrote: »

... but a lot more powerful than the xps 13 (6-core h series cpu with igpu) for closer to half the price ...)

Does this make a noticeable difference to the development work you do. Are you doing a lot of compiling or something?

beauf

beauf wrote: »

300 is dire...

https://www.laptopmag.com/benchmarks/display-brightness

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Best-Notebook-Displays-As-Reviewed-By-Notebookcheck.120541.0.html

300 nits is enough to be comfortably bright on a bright day in most environments (not outside in the actual sun - like who actually does that anyway?)

it's not about how much brighter other laptops are in the top 10 of all laptops - who cares?

It's like having a car that's fast enough for your uses - it doesn't need to be in the top ten fastest car speed charts - that's irrelevant

I'm not the OP - I'm offering him options

Just pointing out that the 4600h murders the i5 in the xps 13 from a brute cpu power point of view as well as vastly more powerful integrated graphics

It will remain more usable for more years with more cpu power - simple as that

Also has 16gb ram as standard

it's also €900 or so - much better value than €1500 and actually in his budget range, not closer to twice the range

beauf

Horses for courses.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Horses for courses.

indeed the xps 13 is a lovely design and build and ultraportable (the magicbook pro is not ultraportable) but not remotely in the OP's budget range and 16gb option even more so

beauf

Actually my point was about the keyboard and screen not just about the xps.

Personally I'm a big fan of 17" laptops. Really like the 2020 XPS 17. Pity they only come with 4 usb ports. My old 17 had 6 usb ports. My current one only has one usb 3.0. So stingy.

beauf

If it's your only machine and it's work critical you might want to consider upgrading the service warranty. Im assuming as a contractor you're paying for it yourself.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Actually my point was about the keyboard and screen not just about the xps.

Personally I'm a big fan of 17" laptops. Really like the 2020 XPS 17. Pity they only come with 4 usb ports. My old 17 had 6 usb ports. My current one only has one usb 3.0. So stingy.

the magicbook pro is 16 inch screen size

vs the xps 17 it's an absolute no brainer to go for the magicbook pro especially given the massive price difference

the xps 17 starts at over 1800 and that's for the poverty spec -> for a fair bit less powerful 10300h i5 intel cpu, less ram, smaller ssd.

the decent ones start at €2500!! over 3 times the OP budget

the keyboard is quality on the pro and again the screen is good.

beauf

The reason for that is there is vast difference in spec not least because it has a 2060 in it, a class leading display.

If don't need, or notice it, thats OK, it not for everyone. I didn't say it was suited to the OP.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

The reason for that is there is vast difference in spec not least because it has a 2060 in it, a class leading display.

If don't need, or notice it, thats OK, it not for everyone. I didn't say it was suited to the OP.

eh, it's over €1800 with no discrete video card, for the dell XPS 17. the integrated graphics of the 900 euro magicbook pro with AMD 4600h would stomp all over the intel igpu.

it's over €2500 for a 1650ti-based dell XPS 17 which is an entry level video card

see here for the prices

https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/cty/...ations_section

RTX 2060 is not at all near being class-leading btw, its mid-range. you have the RTX 2070, RTX 2070 Super and 2080 above it.

and it's over 3000 euro for the xps 17 with the RTX 2060.

it's pretty bad value whichever way you look at it.

bobbyy gee

PMBC wrote: »

Such a disappointment.
Bennyineire is not the farmer Benny that I thought he was. Of course it could be his son!

It could be benie and the jets

bobbyy gee

Nvidia video card for laptops due out


https://www.techradar.com/news/a-mobile-rtx-3070-has-been-spotted-and-expectations-are-already-sky-high

bobbyy gee

Forget intels 10 gen laptops new
11th-generation Intel Core processors, are coming out which the chipmaker said can best rival AMD’s Ryzen 4000 chips across multiple tests.

https://www.crn.com/slide-shows/components-peripherals/the-coolest-laptops-using-intel-s-new-tiger-lake-processors

bobbyy gee

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Forget intels 10 gen laptops new
11th-generation Intel Core processors, are coming out which the chipmaker said can best rival AMD’s Ryzen 4000 chips across multiple tests.

https://www.crn.com/slide-shows/components-peripherals/the-coolest-laptops-using-intel-s-new-tiger-lake-processors

No clue on any products or prices? As usual

There is always something new coming out every year but until you have actual product reviews and prices it offers no basis for comparison to what is currently available.

Just spam in the meantime

beauf

glasso wrote: »

eh, it's over €1800 with no discrete video card, for the dell XPS 17. the integrated graphics of the 900 euro magicbook pro with AMD 4600h would stomp all over the intel igpu.

it's over €2500 for a 1650ti-based dell XPS 17 which is an entry level video card

see here for the prices

https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/cty/...ations_section

RTX 2060 is not at all near being class-leading btw, its mid-range. you have the RTX 2070, RTX 2070 Super and 2080 above it.

and it's over 3000 euro for the xps 17 with the RTX 2060.

it's pretty bad value whichever way you look at it.

I said class leading DISPLAY and I wasn't referring to the base spec.

Steve F

beauf wrote: »

Actually my point was about the keyboard and screen not just about the xps.

Personally I'm a big fan of 17" laptops. Really like the 2020 XPS 17. Pity they only come with 4 usb ports. My old 17 had 6 usb ports. My current one only has one usb 3.0. So stingy.

Would a USB hub not help?
I got one for a tenner from Curry's....4 extra ports to the two built in

beauf

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Forget intels 10 gen laptops new
11th-generation Intel Core processors, are coming out which the chipmaker said can best rival AMD’s Ryzen 4000 chips across multiple tests.

https://www.crn.com/slide-shows/components-peripherals/the-coolest-laptops-using-intel-s-new-tiger-lake-processors

Be interesting to see what turns up...

https://youtu.be/2vaVH0SJa3s

beauf

Steve F wrote: »

Would a USB hub not help?
I got one for a tenner from Curry's....4 extra ports to the two built in

Yeah I have one. But it hard to get decent throughout on USB 3 with them, and power for portable drives is problematic might need a usb splitter or AC power and now it's a cable spaghetti and a pita.

Another thing they do is give you Usb c port but it's used for power. So you lose the port. On the Magicbook Prob you only have that one port. On the xps it brings you back to 1 or 3 ports. Yeah they are only niggles and there are workarounds. Just very meh.

Then some people are happy with MacBook Air and only one shared port.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I said class leading DISPLAY and I wasn't referring to the base spec.

2060 you said.

That is a graphics card

No display is worth 1000 to 2000 euro more ffs

The magicbook display is 100% sRGB so is already accurate enough for video or photo work.

The xps 17 pricing over in Europe is plain bad value in comparison to the competition

bobbyy gee

glasso wrote: »

No clue on any products or prices? As usual

There is always something new coming out every year but until you have actual product reviews and prices it offers no basis for comparison to what is currently available.

Just spam in the meantime

They are coming out soon in Ireland they are selling 3- 4 year old slow CPUs at high prices you need to wait until December if you can to buy a laptop or your going to be stuck with a slow one

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davealtavilla/2020/09/30/first-retail-intel-tiger-lake-powered-laptop-from-asus-impresses/

beauf

beauf wrote: »

... not least because it has a 2060 in it, a class leading display. ...

There was a comma...hard to see on some screens maybe. ..it's just nits picking...

beauf

bobbyy gee wrote: »

They are coming out soon in Ireland they are selling 3- 4 year old slow CPUs at high prices you need to wait until December if you can to buy a laptop or your going to be stuck with a slow one

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davealtavilla/2020/09/30/first-retail-intel-tiger-lake-powered-laptop-from-asus-impresses/

Slow is a relative term.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

There was a comma...hard to see on some screens maybe. ..it's just nits picking...

exactly I saw the comma - hence your mistake as you don't understand punctuation as it should have been AND a class leading display.

by not using that and using a comma you are effectively describing further your previous attribute - i.e. the 2060 card

I forgot your username but now I remember - you have a habit of coming onto threads and going nowhere near the subject of the original poster's request for actual options and going off on tangents.....

same in this case....

beauf

glasso wrote: »

exactly I saw the comma .....

Of course you did There's a whole load of other differences on those high end, machines. But most people can't see past the CPU.

Really the only point I was making when I'm coding I find other things, than just the CPU, important. For example I prefer the taller 16:10 aspect ratio. Even the base model HD screen has 500nits.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Of course you did There's a whole load of other differences on those high end, machines. But most people can't see past the CPU.

Really the only point I was making when I'm coding I find other things, than just the CPU, important. For example I prefer the taller 16:10 aspect ratio. Even the base model HD screen has 500nits.

that's not your original tangent

it was

If it were me I'd stretch to Dell XPS 2020. I like the screens and keyboards.


Though if I'm doing any serious dev work I need a big screen, preferably two. So I have a laptop dock. But I remote into a desktop machine do to dev work. The laptop for me it's only a window to that machine. Or I need to a quick job for someone.

https://youtu.be/2SfSUjxNHtE

Current work laptop is a hp pro 14" Ryzen. Can't fault it really. But it's not my main Dev machine.

Depends how much you need to portable though..

I also have a 13" with a 4k screen and that resolution can be handy to see everything at times. Normally I work in 1080. Just easier on the eyes. Also have a cheap 17' but the quality on the screen is so poor I never use. I might upgrade the screen

the cheapest model is 1500 euro with 8gb ram for the xps 13. it's 1800 for the xps 17.

how that was relevant to a poster saying that his budget was 800 max I have no idea - because it is of no relevance at all.

And then you saying that you would be docking it to a monitor, yet going on about screens.

Jesus, you can't even remember the shyte you post and contradicting yourself.

I won't forget your username now and just ignore this sort of irrelevant tangental stuff in the future.

beauf

Yeah pretty all of what you quoted is all about screens. Bit one tracked.

I was just listing my experience of coding on difference sized screens. I didn't buy or spec (or ask for) the work laptop.

You don't have to reply. Just ignore me click the ignore button.