Trump tests positive for Coronavirus (Mod warning in the op)

stoneill

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

All week we've been told that had Trump just worn a mask he wouldn't have got the virus.

It was his own stupidity they said.

Now all of a sudden masks do diddly squat I guess.

Aww now - you know better than that.

Mask wearing was to help stop the spread of the virus, they are not there to prevent the user getting it, it was to prevent the user spreading it.
If Trump supported mask wearing and social distancing, you wouldn't have all those staffers with covid, and Kelly-Ann's daughter wouldn't have it.

Leroy42

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's not a strawman. It is a real argument.

I hope you tell people who say Obama would handle this better that they're creating strawmen and what they're saying is entirely irrelevant. I hope you say it for every hypothetical situation mentioned.

but he is making his own case. He is arguing that had it been Obama the liberals would have been gushing, implying that it was wrong. So they agree that any uncritical review is wrong and they I assume, are looking for things to be right, are haooy that Trumo is being called out for this NK style PR that he is undertaking.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's not a strawman. It is a real argument.

I hope you tell people who say Obama would handle this better that they're creating strawmen and what they're saying is entirely irrelevant. I hope you say it for every hypothetical situation mentioned.

As pointed out by a Walter Reed doctor, that car is incredibly suited towards spreading the virus. If he really wanted to safely address the public, he could have done a live video. So hypothesising that Obama would have done it and been praised is absolutely silly. I would have condemned Obama if he was so irresponsible.
https://twitter.com/DrPhillipsMD/status/1312869454385229827?s=19

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

but he is making his own case. He is arguing that had it been Obama the liberals would have been gushing, implying that it was wrong. So they agree that any uncritical review is wrong and they I assume, are looking for things to be right, are haooy that Trumo is being called out for this NK style PR that he is undertaking.

It's still not a strawman. His logic is that every hypothetical situation or comparison ever made is a strawman.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

You're creating a straw man here, it's not a real argument. Obama isn't President, nothing like this happened under his Presidency, it's entirely irrelevant.

Not really.

People like to think it's a collective national effort to get through this pandemic - regardless of what your views are on how best to accomplish that objective.

So when you see people in society not giving a damn about the leader of their country, or even hoping for things to go south for them... this shows that they are more concerned with their own political agendas than actually pulling together and showing some unity for the sake of their country.

Criticism is one thing, showing a callous disregard or vitriolic glee is something very different indeed.

Leroy42

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Not really.

People like to think it's a collective national effort to get through this pandemic - regardless of what your views are on how best to accomplish that objective.

So when you see people in society not giving a damn about the leader of their country, or even hoping for things to go south for them... this shows that they are more concerned with their own political agendas than actually pulling together and showing some unity for the sake of their country.

Criticism is one thing, showing a callous disregard or vitriolic glee is something very different indeed.

and it comes directly from the top. That is mainly on Trump who has driven that agenda.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Leroy42 wrote: »

But one good thing to see is that Trump finally agrees the need for masks. I assume he will publicly admit he was wrong all this time and apologise for making fun of Biden, whi was right.

Or perhaps he just felt he couldn't carry out his daily duties in the most effective manner, while having a mask over his face 24/7...?

Things don't always have to be so black and white in life.

So many people just want to drag every issue into a sort of low IQ tribalism... "Pro mask VS anti-mask.... we're now sworn mortal enemies of each other!" :pac:

Isn't it just possible that some people have differing opinions on certain things? Some people think masks are vitally important, others maybe think they're slightly less important - but not necessarily completely useless?

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course they could have done something. Quarantine hotels. Massively reduce clusters. It works in successful countries. I couldn't believe it when I realised it wasn't the norm in every country.

But my point is that making him out to be the devil incarnate when he's in a car with people who have sworn their lives to protect him is a bit much. He's the US president. A lot of people actually forget that part cause they only see a man they absolutely despise.

Just because someone has sworn to protect you doesn’t mean you should take needless and reckless risks with their health and safety. They’re not henchmen in a movie

Leroy42

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Or perhaps he just felt he couldn't carry out his daily duties in the most effective manner, while having a mask over his face 24/7...?

Things don't always have to be so black and white in life.

So many people just want to drag every issue into a sort of low IQ tribalism... "Pro mask VS anti-mask.... we're now sworn mortal enemies of each other!" :pac:

Isn't it just possible that some people have differing opinions on certain things? Some people think masks are vitally important, others maybe think they're slightly less important - but not necessarily completely useless?

24/7? What are you on about?

He runbished masks, now he uses them.

He was wrong, he admits it, why can't you admit he was wrong if he can,?

Perfectly fine to have opinions, until such time as the evidence shows the facts. What facts do you think came to light in the last 48 hours that convinced Trump that he hadn't been aware of before?

dwayneshintzy

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not a strawman. It is a real argument.

I hope you tell people who say Obama would handle this better that they're creating strawmen and what they're saying is entirely irrelevant. I hope you say it for every hypothetical situation mentioned.

It was a straw man as it was in no way related to my post. I've said that people who weren't able to visit dying relatives have a right to be angry at Trump for driving about while hospitalised with covid, whether they were "liberals" or not. What does that possibly have to do with whether Obama would have done the same? He didn't! And talking about Trump doing so isn't a hypothetical, it actually happened.

dwayneshintzy

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still not a strawman. His logic is that every hypothetical situation or comparison ever made is a strawman.

That's not my logic, why would you think that?


My logic is that people who've not been able to visit loved ones in hospital, as they have been placed under total isolation, have a right to be angry at Trump riding about for a PR stunt while hospitalised with covid-19. Creating an alternative scenario for what would happen if Obama did the same is a strawman to my mind, yes. The argument is shifted to one of imagined hypocrisy instead of judging Trump on his own actions.

paw patrol

wes wrote: »

He put the lives of the secret service agents in danger FFS. The man should be put in prison for this carry on.

your point sounds great initially until you realise the actual nature of the secret service. They are obliged to be on top of him anyway - part of the the kudos of the job is to take the bullet and all that....so they'd be beside him anyway even if this was ebola.



these lads signed up for this and would be exposed regardless given the important nature of their roles.



so it's a point made my morons with an axe to grind.

osarusan

That trip around in the SUV does seem a really irresponsible act that means everybody else in the vehicle has had a needless potential exposure.

I get that secret service staff are sworn to protect him, but there's only so far you can extend that argument. There's risk which is inevitable considering the nature of the job, and then there's totally avoidable risk, and this SUV ride is the latter.

dwayneshintzy

paw patrol wrote: »

your point sounds great initially until you realise the actual nature of the secret service. They are obliged to be on top of him anyway - part of the the kudos of the job is to take the bullet and all that....so they'd be beside him anyway even if this was ebola.



these lads signed up for this and would be exposed regardless given the important nature of their roles.



so it's a point made my morons with an axe to grind.

Love a typo from someone trying to call other people morons.


They signed up to protect the President, yes. This was wholly, entirely unnecessary and an objectively stupid idea for Trump to follow through on. You said they'd be exposed regardless; how do you know? Have you got information that Secret Service agents are stationed inside the room with Trump in isolation, rather than outside the door?

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

your point sounds great initially until you realise the actual nature of the secret service. They are obliged to be on top of him anyway - part of the the kudos of the job is to take the bullet and all that....so they'd be beside him anyway even if this was ebola.



these lads signed up for this and would be exposed regardless given the important nature of their roles.



so it's a point made my morons with an axe to grind.

Except those jeeps have a far higher increased risk of him passing it on than anywhere else. They're not standard vehicles, they're air tight. Also guessing a level of distancing is perfectly possible while he's in rooms in Walter Reed as they're classified as secure.

So far from moronic to criticise him drastically increasing their risk.

paw patrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Except those jeeps have a far higher increased risk of him passing it on than anywhere else. They're not standard vehicles, they're air tight. Also guessing a level of distancing is perfectly possible while he's in rooms in Walter Reed as they're classified as secure.

So far from moronic to criticise him drastically increasing their risk.

ok - but these lads are around him 24/7 that is the nature of the job
they can't leave their post so it makes sense they weren't leaving the white house any time soon.



moronic may be a bit far (it is monday morning ) but it's a mountain out of a molehill.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

ok - but these lads are around him 24/7 that is the nature of the job
they can't leave their post so it makes sense they weren't leaving the white house any time soon.



moronic may be a bit far (it is monday morning ) but it's a mountain out of a molehill.

As I already said, since Walter Reed is a secured facility, I'd suspect distancing is generally possible to be maintained.

km991148

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Oh please, if it was Obama leaving his hospital bed for the same reason there'd be gushing coverage from the boot licking media about how the President was heroically risking his own health to inspire a nation brought to its knees by a deadly pandemic.

Let's be honest, the leftists are just pissed off he wore a mask and so now they can't whine about how he doesn't believe in them for another week.

No political figure, left or right would do this.
It's narcissism. Pure and simple.

Junkyard Tom

osarusan wrote: »

That trip around in the SUV does seem a really irresponsible act that means everybody else in the vehicle has had a needless potential exposure.

He's a moron.

iguana

Perhaps everyone else in the vehicle had recovered from Covid and recently had positive antibody tests.

Leroy42

paw patrol wrote: »

your point sounds great initially until you realise the actual nature of the secret service. They are obliged to be on top of him anyway - part of the the kudos of the job is to take the bullet and all that....so they'd be beside him anyway even if this was ebola.



these lads signed up for this and would be exposed regardless given the important nature of their roles.



so it's a point made my morons with an axe to grind.

The secret service put in a huge amount of pre tour work, wherever the POTUS goes, to minimise risk. Even down to removing letter boxes on the route to reduce the change of a roadside bomb.

For far from looking for confront risky situations, their main tasks is to remove risk. But of course not all risk can be avoided (Regan being shot for example) and they certainly carry that knowledge of that risk as part of the job.

But this is different. Trump knowingly forced them into a risky situation that didn't need to happen. He could have simply given the video address. Trump did this solely for electioneering.

This is a man that didn't give respect to dead soldiers because it was raining for petes sake!

But by your logic, whenever a police person gets killed they should just accept it as part of the risk of the job.

extra gravy

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So when you see people in society not giving a damn about the leader of their country, or even hoping for things to go south for them... this shows that they are more concerned with their own political agendas than actually pulling together and showing some unity for the sake of their country.

Why do you expect the American people to give a damn about him and show unity when all he's done is treat them with contempt and stir division instead of unity?

Billy Mays

Shocked that the usual suspects are defending Donnie's little ride around

Some proper mental gymnastics required to defend this carry on

Igotadose

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

All week we've been told that had Trump just worn a mask he wouldn't have got the virus.

It was his own stupidity they said.

Now all of a sudden masks do diddly squat I guess.

What a snowflake Petey is. No one's said that. But hey, whatever floats your orange boat.

So, did you read the speech Obama gave at that cop shooting in Dallas that was misquoted by that wingnut you posted about? Still have the same opinion? And, how many funerals attended for victims of mass shootings has the #IMPOTUS attended and spoken at?

Boggles

It's next level stupid.

One of the quirks of this disease is you can feel much better before you fall off a cliff.

Not saying that is what will happen, but the doctors must know that.

Then again I imagine they are being ignored.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Then again I imagine they are being ignored.

I’d say that’s mostly what’s going on

km991148

Billy Mays wrote: »

Shocked that the usual suspects are defending Donnie's little ride around

Some proper mental gymnastics required to defend this carry on

You can't criticise Don. If you criticise one thing, no matter how stupid it is, it means your entire belief system is collapsing.


Thing about Narcissistic types is, they struggle with being able to see a person in their entirety (whole object relations). I.e. say you have an argument with your partner, you still love the person even if they drive you mad in the moment. Trump types cannot do that. You are either all good or all bad, no in between. It seems a lot if their followers follow the same pattern. The entire phenomenon is weird and entirely fascinating.

hetuzozaho

So I see he is still endangering the lives of the American people with the hope of helping his campaign for reelection. And people thought this might be a learning experience for him. Ah well.

astrofool

Well at least he has confirmed himself as the stupidest president in American history, I mean seriously, can anyone defend him after his latest stunt?

Simple Donald wants to go wavey wavey to the crowds, I'd have loved to see the dumbstruck faces on the security agents and staff when he had this idea.

Stupidest president ever.

km991148

astrofool wrote: »

, I mean seriously, can anyone defend him after his latest stunt?

Yes, just check the last few pages..!

It will play well with his base - a true man's man (quote from this thread!) That doesn't take no sh:t from no virus!

A strong leader indeed (spew).