Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Mrs OBumble

History Queen wrote: »

On the face of it, it seems closing the school is the correct course of action.does anyone know what consequences the principal/school may face for going against DES?

At the moment he's required to self-isolate himself. How can he even be doing the principal job if he can't be at the school?

lulublue22

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

At the moment he's required to self-isolate himself. How can he even be doing the principal job if he can't be at the school?

Deputy will step up with input via phone / zoom from principal I would imagine. Presume BOM was over Zoom or some other online platform.

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

You are still wrong. This post shows how little you understood from the circular or from the explanations given to you or how schools work and are managed No one misrepresented you, you just didnt understand what you were reading and how to apply it.

However many times you try to interpret it you are incorrect. You are embarrassing yourself.

You see, all I'm getting is "They can't do that" or "You are wrong". Never a reason why, or any counter argument. No explanation has been given. I get called a "dolt" for quoting publicly available information. I know it's easier to not question the status quo, but why do you all feel the need to defend it so fervently?

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

You see, all I'm getting is "They can't do that" or "You are wrong". Never a reason why, or any counter argument. No explanation has been given. I get called a "dolt" for quoting publicly available information. I know it's easier to not question the status quo, but why do you all feel the need to defend it so fervently?

I am not defending anything I simply explained along with others how the circular which you failed to comprehend works. It appears that you have no understanding of the Irish school system and its management systems, despite the explanations you claim not to have been given.

Simply put regarding that circular and the days off issue, you are wrong and it is getting funny the lengths you go to, to prove your "knowledge" of the Irish school system.

Supercell

I'd say he was under huge parents from the parents and the teachers alike over this, a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. He made the call which he felt was right for his community.
Personally if the principal of my kids school made such a call in similar circumstances I'd support them 100%
An extra week off school given the year we've had isn't here or there in the big picture. I hope the department go easy on him.

lulublue22

Supercell wrote: »

I'd say he was under huge parents from the parents and the teachers alike over this, a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. He made the call which he felt was right for his community.
Personally if the principal of my kids school made such a call in similar circumstances I'd support them 100%
An extra week off school given the year we've had isn't here or there in the big picture. I hope the department go easy on him.

I think it’s important to note that it was the BOM decision not just the principal.

Boggles

Supercell wrote: »

I'd say he was under huge parents from the parents and the teachers alike over this, a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. He made the call which he felt was right for his community.
Personally if the principal of my kids school made such a call in similar circumstances I'd support them 100%
An extra week off school given the year we've had isn't here or there in the big picture. I hope the department go easy on him.

If he was sanctioned, The Department wouldn't last very long in a labour court.

The pandemic does not trump existing health and safety in the workplace legislation.

Above all else, everyone has a duty of care to themselves legally when at work, not to mention your employer or whoever else may be on site.

Anyway part of the reason it couldn't remain open would appear lack of staffing

He said he had found it impossible to secure substitute staff to cover for absences because any substitute teacher that was available was "understandably" too anxious to enter a school with an ongoing Covid-19 outbreak

"Understandably" - being an understatement.

If anything Norma should be hauled in to explain the departments reasoning in all this.

Considering she is Ireland's newest Hide and Seek champion, finding her may prove difficult though.

khalessi

By the size of the school, he is probably a teaching principal, which would add to the staff shortages

Lillyfae

Supercell wrote: »

I'd say he was under huge parents from the parents and the teachers alike over this, a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. He made the call which he felt was right for his community.
Personally if the principal of my kids school made such a call in similar circumstances I'd support them 100%
An extra week off school given the year we've had isn't here or there in the big picture. I hope the department go easy on him.

What do you think they’re going to do to him exactly? The worst that would happen is that the school would reopen.

KerryConnor

12/125 not a cause for concern??

My daughter s school has had a bad rum of it, 6 classes quarantined since midterm. Not sure how many cases. A class a week, it's drip drip. Getting covid out of a school reminds me of getting nits out if the house when kids are small. It's whackamole at least 2 cases in my daughter s school were siblings testing positive after returning from 14 day quarentine. A 2 week closure isn't quite enough if there are enough cases floating around. Its totally sensible to take opportunity to close for next 3/4 weeks (missing only 6 days of school) and hopefully get rid of it. How HSE could have decided against this is maddening

seamus wrote: »

12 cases seems like a lot, but then you read the story and realise that it's twelve cases since mid-term.

How many actual cases are active right now, and how many are believed to have been acquired in the school? 12 cases in one week or even two weeks would be cause for concern. 12 cases over 6 weeks?

I appreciate that the principal probably feels like they're doing the right thing by giving families the chance to isolate before Xmas, but arguably having the kids off school and out mixing with family & friends for the week, in a place where infections are high, could make matters worse.

lulublue22

For the att of Lillyfae - straight from the horses mouth. The dep response to standardised holidays. This should help you understand how your “interpretation” of the circular is fundamentally flawed and that in fact it is exactly as several posters have explained to you over the last number of pages.



https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

For the att of Lillyfae - straight from the horses mouth. The dep response to standardised holidays. This should help you understand how your “interpretation” of the circular is fundamentally flawed and that in fact it is exactly as several posters have explained to you over the last number of pages.



https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

I know exactly why holidays have been standardized and why a secretary of a union’s ridiculous suggestion to close early with a couple of weeks notice because of “fatigue” was widely ridiculed.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

I know exactly why holidays have been standardized and why a secretary of a union’s ridiculous suggestion to close early with a couple of weeks notice because of “fatigue” was widely ridiculed.

What were the last few pages of you arguing against those of us who explained the standardisation of the school year about then?

Supercell

Lillyfae wrote: »

What do you think they’re going to do to him exactly? The worst that would happen is that the school would reopen.

In an ideal world recognise that he made a decision under impossible circumstances (along with the backing of the school board) for what he felt was the right call for his staff and his students and thank him for his leadership.

meeeeh

What I find the most entertaining is that that union rep going on about 2 days more was slated here that he doesn't represents views of members. The views on this are changing quicker than fast fashion.. Wait a day or two and he will be unsung hero fighting fir human rights or something.

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

What I find the most entertaining is that that union rep going on about 2 days more was slated here that he doesn't represents views of members. The views on this are changing quicker than fast fashion..

I still think he was an idiot for presenting it as some sort of gift to teachers rather than as a public health exercise. My view on that hasn't changed at all.

HerrKuehn

History Queen wrote: »

I still think he was an idiot for presenting it as some sort of gift to teachers rather than as a public health exercise. My view on that hasn't changed at all.

well he isn't in a position to be making public health recommendations is he?

lulublue22

Where we talking about the TUI ? Here was I thinking we were discussing how the circular you emphatically stated numerous times clearly allowed schools to close prior to the 22nd didn't actually allow that at all. You clearly do not have a clue but continue on with the deflections - teachers need to spend less time interpreting , spineless principals and now the Unions. Time to stop digging I'd say.

History Queen

HerrKuehn wrote: »

well he isn't in a position to be making public health recommendations is he?

True. Poor choice of words by me. I should have said:
...rather than a means to allow people to restrict their children's contacts before Christmas

harr

Just learned my son is finishing on the 18th instead of the 22nd , happy with that. I was in two minds about taking him out that little bit earlier. Decision Made for me.

is_that_so

harr wrote: »

Just learned my son is finishing on the 18th instead of the 22nd , happy with that. I was in two minds about taking him out that little bit earlier. Decision Made for me.

It's only two extra school days anyway.

SusanC10

harr wrote: »

Just learned my son is finishing on the 18th instead of the 22nd , happy with that. I was in two minds about taking him out that little bit earlier. Decision Made for me.

Is the school Primary or Secondary ? Private ?
The only school in our area finishing on 18th is Private.

meeeeh

lulublue22 wrote: »

Where we talking about the TUI ? Here was I thinking we were discussing how the circular you emphatically stated numerous times clearly allowed schools to close prior to the 22nd didn't actually allow that at all. You clearly do not have a clue but continue on with the deflections - teachers need to spend less time interpreting , spineless principals and now the Unions. Time to stop digging I'd say.

Could you show me where I commented at all on circular or what days pick and don't pick. It's a subject that I think is irrelevant because schools are part of wider society and when they close or don't close has to be flagged in advance unless there is some sort of emergency. Some amateur health advice that extra two days will protect elderly relatives from corona is not health emergency.

Lillyfae

harr wrote: »

Just learned my son is finishing on the 18th instead of the 22nd , happy with that. I was in two minds about taking him out that little bit earlier. Decision Made for me.

Oh look! A school that were able to do that. Cue questions and disbelief.

lulublue22

meeeeh wrote: »

Could you show me where I commented at all on circular or what days pick and don't pick. It's a subject that I think is irrelevant because schools are part of wider society and when they close or don't close has to be flagged in advance unless there is some sort of emergency. Some amateur health advice that extra two days will protect elderly relatives from corona is not health emergency.

Post not in response to you at all

harr

SusanC10 wrote: »

Is the school Primary or Secondary ? Private ?
The only school in our area finishing on 18th is Private.

Primary.. were due to finish at 11 on the 22nd so only one day really. They wouldn’t have been doing anything on the Monday only games and stuff .
They said a day will be made up somewhere along the line .

HerrKuehn

History Queen wrote: »

True. Poor choice of words by me. I should have said:
...rather than a means to allow people to restrict their children's contacts before Christmas

well the option is open to parents, if they feel the need and are able, to pull the children out early.

lulublue22

harr wrote: »

Primary.. were due to finish at 11 on the 22nd so only one day really. They wouldn’t have been doing anything on the Monday only games and stuff .
They said a day will be made up somewhere along the line .

surprising they feel they will get away with it. Dep very clear re standardised hols. Interesting times ahead if schools start closing from the 18th on.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Oh look! A school that were able to do that. Cue questions and disbelief.

I'd imagine it's christmas wind down. Some yeargroups finishing on different days rather than full school closure?

Edit: just saw ops update. Don't know how they managing it. It is against guidelines.

lulublue22

History Queen wrote: »

I'd imagine it's chrostmas wind down. Some yeargroups finishing on different days rather than full school closure?

No it’s primary but despite lillyfaes feigned amazement it really is against dep policy and not done. It will be interesting to see dep response. They have been fairly clear about unilateral action on behalf of schools.