Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Indeed, excuse you.

Ohh so, so petty. Your posting reeks of disillusionment with teaching and having to return to it.

Boggles

Higgins5473 wrote: »

I'm back teaching to try and get back on my feet and so I can keep paying the mortgage.

Good for you, hopefully you can restart your business soon.

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Furthermore, he and the BOM have no authority to close a school, if he did not know this much and still carried it out,

This ain't actually true.

The principal, the BOM and all employees have to comply with the law.

Specifically health and safety laws.

All employees have a duty of care to themselves let alone anything else.

Higgins5473

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ohh so, so petty. Your posting reeks of disillusionment with teaching and having to return to it.

Your confusing disillusionment with ambition.

I like being back in terms of working probably a third of the hours I did when running my own business, I just miss the staff room and sport. I genuinely liked teaching but wanted to do something other than principalship as I've seen just how demanding the job is.

Listen, I don't think we'll get anywhere in terms of discussing what I brought up, I wish you the very best of luck in your career, only thing I would say is it's a lot easier being a teacher if you ignore the begrudgers and explain to them that it's not some kind of exclusive club that they have no access to and if we have it so good they are free to join any time with some hard work.

Higgins5473

Boggles wrote: »

Good for you, hopefully you can restart your business soon.



This ain't actually true.

The principal, the BOM and all employees have to comply with the law.

Specifically health and safety laws.

All employees have a duty of care to themselves let alone anything else.

Finally, some reasonable discussion. My recollection was that schools very explicitly did not have the authority to close due to Covid cases, and this was cited as early as August?

beggars_bush

The support for this principal on the primary principals network has been great to see

khalessi

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Finally, some reasonable discussion. My recollection was that schools very explicitly did not have the authority to close due to Covid cases, and this was cited as early as August?

Yes but they can close due to lack of staff for health and safety reasons.
3 out of 5 staff were isolating and they could not get subs

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Yes but they can close due to lack of staff for health and safety reasons.
3 out of 5 staff were isolating and they could not get subs

The principal made this point very clearly.

wirelessdude01

beggars_bush wrote: »

The support for this principal on the primary principals network has been great to see

The support for this principal from all sides of the fence has been a joy to see.

Ciara Kelly let herself down this morning with the line she took.

Boggles

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Finally, some reasonable discussion. My recollection was that schools very explicitly did not have the authority to close due to Covid cases, and this was cited as early as August?

Unless that was written into the statute books it is worthless.

Nobody is entitled to circumvent the law.

It could be argued with merit that the employees are being forced to break the law.

downthemiddle

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Sometimes people don't know other peoples circumstances so maybe more balanced discussion rather than attack, insult, defend isn't the best approach.

Perhaps you could follow your own advice with regard to Mark Loftus, the principal in Claremorris. You were the person dishing out insults and attacking him.

Boggles

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ciara Kelly let herself down this morning with the line she took.

That's the cretin who stated the likes of Vicky Phelan were only out for a payout.

She is an out and out scumbag.

Smacruairi

'The Netherlands will close for five weeks': Dutch Prime Minister announces strict new lockdown https://jrnl.ie/5299852

Might be of interest for one person

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

That's the cretin who stated the likes of Vicky Phelan were only out for a payout.

She is an out and out scumbag.

That's a very unfair statement. She made a very valid point that when we allow lawsuits for every mistake (and as far as I know reading those swabs is not straightforward job) no testing will be done. Similarly happened with play centres not being able to get insurance and stay open. While cervical testing is not perfect if lawsuits end it all the women will lose. It's a supply and demand if programme becomes too expensive to run it won't be run.

downthemiddle

Smacruairi wrote: »

'The Netherlands will close for five weeks': Dutch Prime Minister announces strict new lockdown https://jrnl.ie/5299852

Might be of interest for one person

Dutch schools closed and Irish schools open. Hmmmmmmmm.

TheValeyard

Boggles wrote: »

That's the cretin who stated the likes of Vicky Phelan were only out for a payout.

She is an out and out scumbag.

Yeah, she can be quite venomous these days. Definitely hardened in the past couple of years. Her behaviour towards that school in Carlow was shocking.

JDD

meeeeh wrote: »

That's a very unfair statement. She made a very valid point that when we allow lawsuits for every mistake (and as far as I know reading those swabs is not straightforward job) no testing will be done. Similarly happened with play centres not being able to get insurance and stay open. While cervical testing is not perfect if lawsuits end it all the women will lose.

I know this is off topic, but I think some of the cervical cancer lawsuits were due to multiple misses of positive tests. And the courts were more amenable to the women who were not told that their previous negative test (or tests) were in fact positive, despite the fact that it doesn't directly relate to the negligence of the outsourced testing centres.

I think that Claremorris principal did the right thing, on balance. If they couldn't get the subs, and had to merge classes together, there would have been a more widespread outbreak.

I would prefer I suppose if the principal had appealed to all the parents to ask anyone who could keep their child at home to do so, and work would be sent home or emailed. And anyone who was put in awkward position - ie. a factory worker who would have to miss their shifts, take unpaid leave and perhaps couldn't afford christmas presents as a result - could send their child into school and a teacher would be there to teach them.

But maybe that's in an ideal world. Maybe everyone would have sent their kid in.

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

'The Netherlands will close for five weeks': Dutch Prime Minister announces strict new lockdown https://jrnl.ie/5299852

Might be of interest for one person

Two week incidence rate tgere is around 550 and in Ireland it is around 80. I will be quite happy of we wait as long to close schools.

meeeeh

JDD wrote: »

I know this is off topic, but I think some of the cervical cancer lawsuits were due to multiple misses of positive tests. And the courts were more amenable to the women who were not told that their previous negative test (or tests) were in fact positive, despite the fact that it doesn't directly relate to the negligence of the outsourced testing centres.

Oh I know the state behaved terribly. I think cervical testing is changing anyway so it should be ok but as far as I know her point at the time was that it could affect breast cancer checks. I think that's also the reason why state fought cases in the courts.

It's a completely separate point but allegations against Kelly are unfair and sometimes rational not just emotional assessment of situation and it's consequences is needed.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

Two week incidence rate tgere is around 550 and in Ireland it is around 80. I will be quite happy of we wait as long to close schools.

Most people like to react before numbers get out of control and have to lock down entire countries, but sure whatever you are having yourself.

scrubs33

I might have mentioned this before but when the history of this entire episode is written Minister Foleys stock will very much be in the credit column at least in the eyes of Fianna Fáil. From speaking to some of the well connected higher ups in that party, at least at a local level, the attitude is that she has taken on a huge crisis as a rookie Minister, kept the schools open and kept transmission rates low. The feeling is that she could be a future Minister in one of the other big portfolios (Health, Finance) or indeed party leader. How she has hidden the real figures in plain sight will be adapted and used in every single field of business for years to come. If we had her in 2008 there would have been no need for a bailout and in fact the Europeans might have owed us something!!

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

Most people like to react before numbers get out of control and have to lock down entire countries, but sure whatever you are having yourself.

So wouldn't you agree that we shouldn't follow Netherlands but asses our own situation and acted when needed? Considering our incidence rate is lowest in months it would be completely irrational to close schools now if we left them open in October without major issues and incidence rate around 300 irc.

downthemiddle

meeeeh wrote: »

So wouldn't you agree that we shouldn't follow Netherlands but asses our own situation and acted when needed?

In our situation the asses have been the DES this week.

meeeeh

downthemiddle wrote: »

In our situation the asses have been the DES this week.

English is not my native language and frankly languages are not my main strength so I will never match up to native speakers. Constant nitpicking of my spelling mistakes is a bit tiring at this stage.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

So wouldn't you agree that we shouldn't follow Netherlands but asses our own situation and acted when needed? Considering our incidence rate is lowest in months it would be completely irrational to close schools now if we left them open in October without major issues and incidence rate around 300 irc.

I don't believe letting things get out of control is a strategy, no. We have basically been told we are going into lockdown in January also, so the whole idea of "reduce your contacts" while keeping schools open at full seems mad.

But the link was for the poster from Holland who was proven wrong about the relationship between school calendars And boms, while commenting from a country heading into lockdown. Couldn't make it up.

downthemiddle

meeeeh wrote: »

English is not my native language and frankly languages are not my main strength so I will never match up to native speakers. Constant nitpicking of my spelling mistakes is a bit tiring at this stage.

I wasn't nitpicking, sorry if you felt I was. I'm only trying to introduce some much needed humour into the situation.

meeeeh

Smacruairi wrote: »

I don't believe letting things get out of control is a strategy, no. We have basically been told we are going into lockdown in January also, so the whole idea of "reduce your contacts" while keeping schools open at full seems mad.

But the link was for the poster from Holland who was proven wrong about the relationship between school calendars And boms, while commenting from a country heading into lockdown. Couldn't make it up.

So because they live in Netherlands they are responsible for situation there? It seems a bit childish to me and completely Illogical.

meeeeh

downthemiddle wrote: »

I wasn't nitpicking, sorry if you felt I was. I'm only trying to introduce some much needed humour into the situation.

It might be I'm a bit sensitive to that.

Smacruairi

meeeeh wrote: »

So because they live in Netherlands they are responsible for situation there? It seems a bit childish to me and completely Illogical.

Did I say that they were responsible for it? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth, then call me childish, when I never said that they were responsible. I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that, thanks.

Lillyfae

Smacruairi wrote: »

I don't believe letting things get out of control is a strategy, no. We have basically been told we are going into lockdown in January also, so the whole idea of "reduce your contacts" while keeping schools open at full seems mad.

But the link was for the poster from Holland who was proven wrong about the relationship between school calendars And boms, while commenting from a country heading into lockdown. Couldn't make it up.

I didn’t make any relationship between calendars and board of management. I simply said that if it had occurred to principals to take 2 days from somewhere else when the school calendar for 20/21 was being made then the days could have been taken. I quoted the wrong circular but it can be done.

The Netherlands is in a shocking position at the moment. The sinterklaas tradition 2 weeks ago might have had a part to play, with thronged shopping streets being ordered to close a few times and many Belgians and Germans traveling over the border because their non essential shops were closed. Having said that, the bars and restaurants have been closed since October with no question that they will reopen. If you travel abroad, your insurance won’t cover you. This is the last resort.

But nice of you to laugh at the stress we’re going to be back under, having worked straight through since March without stopping. I’m not sure I can get through it again. We’ve abided by all the rules, keeping our children at home a couple of times when there was a chance of close contact or symptoms. I’m honestly afraid of what this is going to do to my mental health and my family, and if it will affect my work and income.

scrubs33

scrubs33 wrote: »

I might have mentioned this before but when the history of this entire episode is written Minister Foleys stock will very much be in the credit column at least in the eyes of Fianna Fáil. From speaking to some of the well connected higher ups in that party, at least at a local level, the attitude is that she has taken on a huge crisis as a rookie Minister, kept the schools open and kept transmission rates low. The feeling is that she could be a future Minister in one of the other big portfolios (Health, Finance) or indeed party leader. How she has hidden the real figures in plain sight will be adapted and used in every single field of business for years to come. If we had her in 2008 there would have been no need for a bailout and in fact the Europeans might have owed us something!!

Schools are open and rates are low at the moment. I dont believe Foley has had much to do with this, but it is the truth. The figures cant ultimately be hidden for long even if they want to. Look at Claremorris, a small school in a small town and its national news. And this has been associated with a large community outbreak at a food processing plant. As many have said all along, schools will follow communities