Schools closed until February? (part 3)

xhomelezz

is_that_so wrote: »

Before anyone embraces that sobering read, it's McConkey, again!

Well time will show. Not backing up his ideas and certainly not backing up government's ideas now either. Imo fine, pushing zero covid strategy won't work here, but doesn't look like boys in power found any better way either. We'll see how lvl 3 works, but wouldn't put too much hope into it. Everything is just half cooked, no real enforcement of basics on horizon. And since this is school thread..man government is so fcuked and trapped in whole all in reopening magnificent plan. They will keep pushing it through doesn't matter the cost, cuz it's the only thing they have at the moment.

meeeeh

xhomelezz wrote: »

Well time will show. Not backing up his ideas and certainly not backing up government's ideas now either. Imo fine, pushing zero covid strategy won't work here, but doesn't look like boys in power found any better way either. We'll see how lvl 3 works, but wouldn't put too much hope into it. Everything is just half cooked, no real enforcement of basics on horizon. And since this is school thread..man government is so fcuked and trapped in whole all in reopening magnificent plan. They will keep pushing it through doesn't matter the cost, cuz it's the only thing they have at the moment.

Restrictions here are harsher than in most of Europe. I'm not against restrictions when they make sense but if we need level 5 restrictions when there are 30 in icu we can just as well close everything for winter and give up.

Anyway this thread is becoming Shinner central so I'm out.

is_that_so

xhomelezz wrote: »

Well time will show. Not backing up his ideas and certainly not backing up government's ideas now either. Imo fine, pushing zero covid strategy won't work here, but doesn't look like boys in power found any better way either. We'll see how lvl 3 works, but wouldn't put too much hope into it. Everything is just half cooked, no real enforcement of basics on horizon. And since this is school thread..man government is so fcuked and trapped in whole all in reopening magnificent plan. They will keep pushing it through doesn't matter the cost, cuz it's the only thing they have at the moment.

He's a Zero COVID zealot, he also has a habit of varying his opinions, a lot. I don't disagree on the risk of Level 3 but I am inclined to see it given a chance first. It gives us options in all sectors of society that Level 5 does not.

Icyseanfitz

tom1ie wrote: »

I don’t get this?
Teachers are front line essential workers aren’t they?

Even if they are what difference does that bloody make? Throw all students and staff in the firing line without any protections?

tom1ie

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Even if they are what difference does that bloody make? Throw all students and staff in the firing line without any protections?

I didn’t say without any protection?

Kids need an education and parents have to be able to work or the economy completely shuts down.
That’s obviously not an option so teachers will have to take precautions (mask up, SD).
There will also have to be a hybrid model brought in for secondary that allows a mix of online and in class to relieve pressure on the amount of students in class, but in primary it’ll have to be 100% in class.

xhomelezz

is_that_so wrote: »

He's a Zero COVID zealot, he also has a habit of varying his opinions, a lot. I don't disagree on the risk of Level 3 but I am inclined to see it given a chance first. It gives us options in all sectors of society that Level 5 does not.

I get it. As I said I understand zero covid strategy is a no go and I hope lvl 3 Is gonna be enough to get somewhere, but.. Way too many things are broken at the moment, time wasn't use to fix them up, rather like patching sinking boat, might work short term.. Education included, absolutely no back up plan whatsoever. Two core priorities now to look at is healthcare and education. Since economy is being put behind because of those two priorities, so they better be sure to do it right.

Icyseanfitz

tom1ie wrote: »

I didn’t say without any protection?

Kids need an education and parents have to be able to work or the economy completely shuts down.
That’s obviously not an option so teachers will have to take precautions (mask up, SD).
There will also have to be a hybrid model brought in for secondary that allows a mix of online and in class to relieve pressure on the amount of students in class, but in primary it’ll have to be 100% in class.

Masks are half happening in secondary, social distancing is impossible and the department arnt entertaining any ideas if hybrid learning, its fully open with full numbers and praying for the best.

khalessi

tom1ie wrote: »

I didn’t say without any protection?

Kids need an education and parents have to be able to work or the economy completely shuts down.
That’s obviously not an option so teachers will have to take precautions (mask up, SD).
There will also have to be a hybrid model brought in for secondary that allows a mix of online and in class to relieve pressure on the amount of students in class, but in primary it’ll have to be 100% in class.

Lovely idea but goveernment have had 7 months to come up with hybrid idea and have given us zilch, no not zilch, given us RTE school hub.

SNA's are still having to source PPE and ppe is not being provided to all staff.

Primary need to be wearing masks at least the senior years as studies have shown that they can transmit covid as easily as adults.

Icyseanfitz

Another week starting, stay safe everyone

tom1ie

khalessi wrote: »

Lovely idea but goveernment have had 7 months to come up with hybrid idea and have given us zilch, no not zilch, given us RTE school hub.

SNA's are still having to source PPE and ppe is not being provided to all staff.

Primary need to be wearing masks at least the senior years as studies have shown that they can transmit covid as easily as adults.

It’s absolutely bonkers.
It seems like it’s being left up to individual schools to sort out how they’ll “teach” the kids when the schools closed.
There is no direction from the department.
Surely distance learning broke down into 5-10 min videos on different subjects would be a good idea for parents of primary school kids.
We
In my case we received very limited help first time around but I don’t blame the school the department should be providing direction.

Smacruairi

tom1ie wrote: »

It’s absolutely bonkers.
It seems like it’s being left up to individual schools to sort out how they’ll “teach” the kids when the schools closed.
There is no direction from the department.
Surely distance learning broke down into 5-10 min videos on different subjects would be a good idea for parents of primary school kids.
We
In my case we received very limited help first time around but I don’t blame the school the department should be providing direction.

Your suggestion of videos is a good one, I'd agree with it (though longer!). The problem is then other ppl want live zoom for hours at a time. Others don't have more than one device so just want work to keep them occupied. There is too much variance demanded, and a school can't do all at once, and thus falls between the stools. If the govt came out and set the expectations it would really go a long way to aligning everyone and help us keep education moving forward in the event of lockdown.. But alas, they won't.

khalessi

tom1ie wrote: »

It’s absolutely bonkers.
It seems like it’s being left up to individual schools to sort out how they’ll “teach” the kids when the schools closed.
There is no direction from the department.
Surely distance learning broke down into 5-10 min videos on different subjects would be a good idea for parents of primary school kids.
We
In my case we received very limited help first time around but I don’t blame the school the department should be providing direction.

Yeah the teaching was mixed some excellent some ok some poor. The weekly email needs to have videos on it, there is no point having just page numbers with no explanation.

The videos are already there but parents need to know where to find them on the likes of khan academy or mathantics or such like, and then the videos for the other subjects.

Icyseanfitz

tom1ie wrote: »

It’s absolutely bonkers.
It seems like it’s being left up to individual schools to sort out how they’ll “teach” the kids when the schools closed.
There is no direction from the department.
Surely distance learning broke down into 5-10 min videos on different subjects would be a good idea for parents of primary school kids.
We
In my case we received very limited help first time around but I don’t blame the school the department should be providing direction.

Problem is individual schools can taylor somewhat but have to fit into the departments framework of full attendance and normal hours.

tom1ie

Smacruairi wrote: »

Your suggestion of videos is a good one, I'd agree with it (though longer!). The problem is then other ppl want live zoom for hours at a time. Others don't have more than one device so just want work to keep them occupied. There is too much variance demanded, and a school can't do all at once, and thus falls between the stools. If the govt came out and set the expectations it would really go a long way to aligning everyone and help us keep education moving forward in the event of lockdown.. But alas, they won't.

Exactly.
How can direction not be given from the department to say: (from a primary point of view)
1) school classes divided by 5. First fifth do school day on Monday, second 5th do school day on Tuesday etc etc.
2) at the same time short videos are put up online by the teachers of the schoolchildren for each subject, English maths science etc etc.
3) assembly’s can all be done online.
No parents should be expecting 8 hours of online teaching from teachers. That’s ridiculous.

lulublue22

Smacruairi wrote: »

Your suggestion of videos is a good one, I'd agree with it (though longer!). The problem is then other ppl want live zoom for hours at a time. Others don't have more than one device so just want work to keep them occupied. There is too much variance demanded, and a school can't do all at once, and thus falls between the stools. If the govt came out and set the expectations it would really go a long way to aligning everyone and help us keep education moving forward in the event of lockdown.. But alas, they won't.

In a previous incarnation of this thread a parent was insisting that a full day on zoom for primary children was needed. All I could think of was J C poor children. I understand that children are in school all day but there are natural lulls and breaks and down time - can you imagine a primary school child glued to a screen for over 5 hours a day for 5 days a week - quantity does not equate with quality.

s1ippy

https://twitter.com/killianodris/status/1315088491848634368?s=20

wirelessdude01

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/killianodris/status/1315088491848634368?s=20

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here to talk it down.

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here to talk it down.

We'll have leo tomorrow telling us schools might have to close and then mehole on the 6 news telling us it wasn't even considered :pac:

tom1ie

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/killianodris/status/1315088491848634368?s=20

This is all fine and well, but if we close schools, how the hell do kids get an education and how do parents work.

I completely agree the virus is spreading in schools but what is the alternative?

Some sort of blended learning might work but where is the department of education in all this. Shocking.

downthemiddle

There is a disturbing pattern emerging regarding the notification of cases in schools. According to the guidelines issued to schools it is the responsibility of the HSE to contact schools about confirmed cases. The schools are not meant to contact the HSE.
I am aware of a number of schools who having waited a number of days for contact from the HSE then took matters into their own hands and contacted the HSE. This lead to the HSE sending classes home.
Why did the HSE fail in their duty to contact schools? Why have they sent a class home in one school and made no contact with another school where two siblings have tested positive?

wirelessdude01

Friend just told me that their school was informed by a parent last weekend of a child that tested positive. Their principal has just informed the whole staff that the school has yet to be contacted by the HSE to get any details regarding the school setup, class setup pods within the class or indeed any contact details.

Bloody joke.

The BOM made the decision late on Sunday night to ask the class involved to stay at home until they have further information. A week later and the school hasn't any yet.

Shameful.

irishblessing

tom1ie wrote: »

This is all fine and well, but if we close schools, how the hell do kids get an education and how do parents work.

I completely agree the virus is spreading in schools but what is the alternative?

Some sort of blended learning might work but where is the department of education in all this. Shocking.

You said it- a blended learning option would work well and give choice to those who need it and reduce classroom sizes. It needs to be supported by gov't in providing funds and resources. Funds and resources which schools should have had anyway but have been in decline for way too many years.

We also need a MUCH better test and trace system. If schools had more robust testing and tracing then it would catch more of the asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic students. That would in turn protect their families and community who may be at greater risk for severe illness and complications. It would allow students to continue learning safely in school and the blended remote learning model would support those at home full time or part time (whether rotation schedule or out for quarantine/class closure).

tom1ie

irishblessing wrote: »

You said it- a blended learning option would work well and give choice to those who need it and reduce classroom sizes. It needs to be supported by gov't in providing funds and resources. Funds and resources which schools should have had anyway but have been in decline for way too many years.

We also need a MUCH better test and trace system. If schools had more robust testing and tracing then it would catch more of the asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic students. That would in turn protect their families and community who may be at greater risk for severe illness and complications. It would allow students to continue learning safely in school and the blended remote learning model would support those at home full time or part time (whether rotation schedule or out for quarantine/class closure).

But realistically what extra funds are required to send kids home?
Fair enough most families will not have a tablet or laptop per pupil, but you can pick one up for €100. The department can provide a voucher for this.
Other than that the teachers/department have to put together short videos for the particular subjects which they are gonna teach anyway.
They divide the class in five a b c d e.
On Monday a comes in and the teacher live streams Mondays class (pupils not recorded for gdpr) so b c d e watch from home.
This alternates.
Short Interactive Videos can be developed by the department (Should have been done in the previous 6 months!) to further help kids if they need more time on a particular part of a subject, eg tricky words.
I mean we could be without a vaccine for years or never, if we go with this mindset we have to get a solution, cause the way it is spreading in schools now we will never get a handle on covid.

irishblessing

lulublue22 wrote: »

In a previous incarnation of this thread a parent was insisting that a full day on zoom for primary children was needed. All I could think of was J C poor children. I understand that children are in school all day but there are natural lulls and breaks and down time - can you imagine a primary school child glued to a screen for over 5 hours a day for 5 days a week - quantity does not equate with quality.

I agree that you can't have children glued to a screen for over 5 hours a day. I can speak to what actually happens for primary aged children doing full remote learning though (as I've said before I have family & friends in the US & Canada with kids doing full or mixed remote learning)

There are breaks throughout the day about every hour. Lunch is longer at an hour (which is actually length of time recommended by their AAP anyway) and one of the teachers does frequent yoga breaks, or a dance break they use a program called 'go noodle' and reminders to look around the room.

irishblessing

tom1ie wrote: »

But realistically what extra funds are required to send kids home?
Fair enough most families will not have a tablet or laptop per pupil, but you can pick one up for €100. The department can provide a voucher for this.
Other than that the teachers/department have to put together short videos for the particular subjects which they are gonna teach anyway.
They divide the class in five a b c d e.
On Monday a comes in and the teacher live streams Mondays class (pupils not recorded for gdpr) so b c d e watch from home.
This alternates.
Short Interactive Videos can be developed by the department (Should have been done in the previous 6 months!) to further help kids if they need more time on a particular part of a subject, eg tricky words.
I mean we could be without a vaccine for years or never, if we go with this mindset we have to get a solution, cause the way it is spreading in schools now we will never get a handle on covid.

Well for a hybrid learning model the IT in many schools needs to be improved, teacher training for remote learning, extra teachers so that they each focus on their own group without pulling double duty and enough for subs as well, laptops/microphones for teachers or a tax write off, loaner equipment for students who need it (such as chrome books & headphones) and a plan to address needs for students who have no/poor wifi at home. And providing better PPE in the school.

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here to talk it down.

They've not denied cases just where they say they've come from. I will say that link looks very much like a thread of making numbers dance the way you want them to. I am personally puzzled by the obsession with this whole HSE not telling us everything about schools. There's an agenda behind that that I can't figure out apart from the most obvious one, out and out school closures and TV and Zoom all day as education. Otherwise, what actual point is there to constantly asserting that schools are being treated differently? After all, we take the rest of the COVID data at face value.

wirelessdude01

is_that_so wrote: »

They've not denied cases just where they say they've come from. I will say that link looks very much like a thread of making numbers dance the way you want them to. I am personally puzzled by the obsession with this whole HSE not telling us everything about schools. There's an agenda behind that that I can't figure out apart from the most obvious one, out and out school closures and TV and Zoom all day as education. Otherwise, what actual point is there to constantly asserting that schools are being treated differently? After all, we take the rest of the COVID data at face value.

See those of us in schools know that schools are being treated differently.

Most obvious point is what constitutes a close contact.

is_that_so

irishblessing wrote: »

Well for a hybrid learning model the IT in many schools needs to be improved, teacher training for remote learning, extra teachers so that they each focus on their own group without pulling double duty and enough for subs as well, laptops/microphones for teachers or a tax write off, loaner equipment for students who need it (such as chrome books & headphones) and a plan to address needs for students who have no/poor wifi at home. And providing better PPE in the school.

That's at least 6 projects rolled into one. It's not that people are against the idea nor that there is no will, it's just not practical as an immediate solution. Back of the envelope generous guess to get all of that up and running would be 6 months+.

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See those of us in schools know that schools are being treated differently.

Most obvious point is what constitutes a close contact.

Yeah and that's a fair point. I just get a sense that the HSE/government approach is being used for a whole lot of other agendas and beliefs.

irishblessing

is_that_so wrote: »

That's at least 6 projects rolled into one. It's not that people are against the idea nor that there is no will, it's just not practical as an immediate solution. Back of the envelope generous guess to get all of that up and running would be 6 months+.

Sorry, but it just takes will and foresight. In the US they also closed schools in March where my friends/family are and all this *brand new* programs was in place by end of August. Our govt sat on their hands and wasted all that time. Hence the anger about what we're faced with now.